MMedit web site


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TassyJim

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Joined: 07/08/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 3715
Posted: 07:32pm 06 Sep 2017      

Norton's is my least liked antivirus.
Now they have listed my website as "known dangerous website"



I can't see any signs of tampering and if I want to find out any more I have to sign up with Norton's and spend too much time stuffing around at their beg and call.

The reason 'might' be because I am redirecting all http traffic to https but who knows?
That's the only change I have made this year.

At this stage, I am very tempted to just close the website totally and give up producing software for others to use. I've got better things to do with my time than put up with companies like Norton's.

I guess they could be right so I should kill the website immediately, just in case...

Jim
It all started with the ZX81....
VK7JH
http://www.c-com.com.au/MMedit.htm

CaptainBoing

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Joined: 07/09/2016
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1331
Posted: 07:54pm 06 Sep 2017      

It may be because the domain name has "com.com" in it. so it has got all twitchy thinking it's a phishing site (i.e. paypal.com.com is definitely not somewhere I would visit) - or maybe that there are "raw" EXE files for download

see

https://www.symantec.com/security_response/attacksignatures/detail.jsp?asid=24312

and

https://community.norton.com/en/forums/malicious-site-malicious-domain-request-2-4

It is a common, very blunt, algorithmic decision - and something new? (have you checked this before)

I understand how you feel with big-corps using their weight to sway opinion, but people really appreciate what you do Jim... Nil Desperandum and all that.

I know you are in a different place professionally now, and I am glad you are getting out to play - if you want somewhere to host your stuff, please feel free to make articles here and you can still do what you like without the headache of all the other fluff. This is a genuine offer extended to the whole community - I am not touting for business.

Edited by CaptainBoing 2017-09-08

robert.rozee
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Joined: 31/12/2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1640
Posted: 09:37pm 06 Sep 2017      

some of my programs are now being rejected by anti-virus software, which is proving to be quite a pain. in one case as soon as i compiled the source code and tried to run it, AVG would delete the executable!

my fear is that this is something that will just get worse over the coming years. there will be money to be made in getting the anti-virus companies to 'approve' your programs, or having them placed in the microsoft software store. i'd imagine the end-game will something like the apple store, except for windows 10.

the same will (as you are observing) happen to websites. anti-virus software is starting to get very aggressive about 'persuading' users to install extra modules for identity protection, website screening, etc. even now, some of these features are reported as no longer being able to be deselected or turned off.


cheers,
rob :-)

Phil23
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Joined: 27/03/2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 1651
Posted: 11:17pm 06 Sep 2017      

  TassyJim said   Norton's is my least liked antivirus.
Now they have listed my website as "known dangerous website"

The reason 'might' be because I am redirecting all http traffic to https but who knows?
That's the only change I have made this year.



I've had this on my Cumulus Weather Website.

A total false positive. No changes; scoured it for any tampering; tested it from other websites & it was all clean.

Had to jump thru Symantec's automated response system to have it flagged clean.

What Peaved me most was it's reflection on MY ability's amongst my clients.

Fortunately many clients already have a bad taste for anti-virus companies...

Phil.

Phil23
Guru

Joined: 27/03/2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 1651
Posted: 11:33pm 06 Sep 2017      

And......

When you check things out elsewhere, it usually tests as clean.









Phil.

Boppa
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Joined: 08/11/2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 807
Posted: 12:26am 07 Sep 2017      

I stopped using Nortons back when I was still on 98SE- and never seen a single reason to go back to it

Storys like this continuing year after year make me basically ignore anything by or reported by nortons unless it is confirmed by a reputable company

(I consider them to be only a small step above being malware themselves, what with the inability to remove it without specialized software tools supplied by other companies and the total controlling of what you can and cant do on your own system)

paceman
Guru

Joined: 07/10/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 1225
Posted: 02:57am 07 Sep 2017      

It would be quite a shame (and big loss to us all) to see you have to do that Jim. I think Rob and CaptainB are probably right on the money with their comments.

Norton has been a PITA for years, I gave up on it well over a decade ago after multiple bouts of router problems with it. It's not even very good at its core job when you look at the various virus detection tests done over the years. The last notepad I bought new was a Win7 i5 ASUS about six years ago and Norton was part of the 'free' crapware loaded and cocked ready to go on that. Of course it was only 'free' for a short period and it took me quite a while to figure out how to get rid of it. No doubt ASUS and Norton shared the spoils from those who couldn't get rid of it.

Greg

Grogster

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Joined: 31/12/2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 7306
Posted: 02:59am 07 Sep 2017      

Norton's AV is one of the world's biggest bloatwares. I have not bothered with Nortons for years and years. I ACTIVELY try to talk clients out of using it on their machines, because if you don't have a reasonably zippy machine anyway, Nortons will make a slower machine run like a snail, cos it is always checking things in the background, and gobbling up all the PC's resources. It seems a bit like a knee-jerk reaction to AV these days - Nortons.

Some people will always get bitten by viruses, but you'd be surprised how many people can be educated on what NOT to do on the net, and what attachments NOT to open etc, etc, etc that they can protect themselves with only minimalistic AV software.

[Quote=Jim]At this stage, I am very tempted to just close the website totally and give up producing software for others to use. I've got better things to do with my time than put up with companies like Norton's.[/Quote]

Please don't underestimate your CONSIDERABLE contribution to the entire Micromite ecosystem. Without MMEDIT, The MicroMite would not be as pleasurable a system to work on. Not to take away from the built-in editor, but a proper IDE with coloured syntax makes development so much less stressful then it otherwise could be, so you have done some absolutely brilliant work, Jim, and please don't let stupid Nortons - or anyone else for that matter - tell you anything different.
Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!

CaptainBoing

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Joined: 07/09/2016
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1331
Posted: 04:07am 07 Sep 2017      

  Boppa said   I consider them to be only a small step above being malware themselves, what with the inability to remove it without specialized software tools supplied by other companies and the total controlling of what you can and cant do on your own system


so true... them and LogMeIn

CaptainBoing

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Joined: 07/09/2016
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1331
Posted: 04:10am 07 Sep 2017      

  Grogster said  
Please don't underestimate your CONSIDERABLE contribution to the entire Micromite ecosystem. Without MMEDIT, The MicroMite would not be as pleasurable a system to work on. Not to take away from the built-in editor, but a proper IDE with coloured syntax makes development so much less stressful then it otherwise could be, so you have done some absolutely brilliant work, Jim, and please don't let stupid Norton - or anyone else for that matter - tell you anything different.


+1

TassyJim

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Joined: 07/08/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 3715
Posted: 11:48am 07 Sep 2017      

  Grogster said  
Please don't underestimate your CONSIDERABLE contribution to the entire Micromite ecosystem.


This latest issue was brought to my attention by a prospective new micromite user. His shock of being led to a malicious web site has probably frightened him of micromites altogether.

This is why I am so upset. I can live without the domain name I have had for close on 20 years, but I don't want to be responsible for any tarnish to the maximite name.

Jim

It all started with the ZX81....
VK7JH
http://www.c-com.com.au/MMedit.htm

KeepIS

Guru

Joined: 13/10/2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 720
Posted: 12:05pm 07 Sep 2017      

This is now so common that very few internet users have not come across it, as other have said, almost every program I write and compile gets fagged and put in the virus bin by my current stupid AV SW, I switch off the program launch scanner in the crap thing.

I refuse to used NORTON AV because of the arrogance they show in attempting to take total control of the OS, and in some previous version made it very difficult to remove once installed, some AV programs leave hidden processors ruining even after removal. That is a virus as far as I'm concerned.

Agree with others on the great work you have done.

I always contact the site owner just to give them a heads up, most are aware of the problem with AV software and false positives.

It's all too hard.

VK2MCT
Senior Member

Joined: 30/03/2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 120
Posted: 01:31pm 07 Sep 2017      

Jim,
I can access your website and download exe without getting warnings ?
I'm using Firefox.
John.

TassyJim

Guru

Joined: 07/08/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 3715
Posted: 02:10pm 07 Sep 2017      

  VK2MCT said   Jim,
I can access your website and download exe without getting warnings ?
I'm using Firefox.
John.


The problem only appears if you use Norton's products as far as I know.
Norton's might be linked to some web browsers but I don't know which, if any.


It all started with the ZX81....
VK7JH
http://www.c-com.com.au/MMedit.htm

Gizmo

Admin Group

Joined: 05/06/2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 4817
Posted: 02:52pm 07 Sep 2017      

I feel your pain TassyJim. TheBackShed has had its fair share of false positives, and the loops I've had to jump through to get it off a black list.

20 years ago the internet was fun.

Glenn
People say 2020 is a terrible year, with the bush fires, COVID 19, and riots. But I see it as the year we woke up to ourselves.

JAQ Software

Bill.b

Senior Member

Joined: 25/06/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 186
Posted: 03:54pm 07 Sep 2017      

I have no problems with win 10 Edge and McAfee total protection.

Bill
In the interests of the environment, this post has been constructed entirely from recycled electrons.

paceman
Guru

Joined: 07/10/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 1225
Posted: 05:32pm 07 Sep 2017      

  TassyJim said   This latest issue was brought to my attention by a prospective new micromite user. His shock of being led to a malicious web site has probably frightened him of micromites altogether.
This is why I am so upset. I can live without the domain name I have had for close on 20 years, but I don't want to be responsible for any tarnish to the maximite name.

Yes fair point Jim. I think you're probably worrying too much about that - but the reputation of the C-Com website name is still affected some.

It might be useful to have Geoff contact Silicon Chip and get them to put something (an Editorial?) in the next edition to highlight this problem, using Norton and C-Com as an example. SC have some skin in this as well given the number of projects they've published about Maxi/Micromites over the years. SC could also contact Norton and request they remove the black-listing or face continuing bad publicity in SC which has considerable global distribution.

Greg

GoodToGo!

Senior Member

Joined: 23/04/2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 186
Posted: 05:52pm 07 Sep 2017      

  CaptainBoing said  
  Grogster said  
Please don't underestimate your CONSIDERABLE contribution to the entire Micromite ecosystem. Without MMEDIT, The MicroMite would not be as pleasurable a system to work on. Not to take away from the built-in editor, but a proper IDE with coloured syntax makes development so much less stressful then it otherwise could be, so you have done some absolutely brilliant work, Jim, and please don't let stupid Norton - or anyone else for that matter - tell you anything different.


+1


+ another 1
...... Don't worry mate, it'll be GoodToGo!

CaptainBoing

Guru

Joined: 07/09/2016
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1331
Posted: 10:44pm 07 Sep 2017      

  paceman said  

It might be useful to have Geoff contact Silicon Chip and get them to put something (an Editorial?) in the next edition to highlight this problem, using Norton and C-Com as an example. SC have some skin in this as well given the number of projects they've published about Maxi/Micromites over the years. SC could also contact Norton and request they remove the black-listing or face continuing bad publicity in SC which has considerable global distribution.

Greg


That is a great idea and they are always looking for reasonable sized articles. It needs to be very thoughtful - I wouldn't mention specifics - it makes them targets. Remember these malware scumbags are VERY SMART - they have done their homework, and we don't want to give them the upper hand in such an article (yes they read this stuff too).

Any article should focus on reliable methods of verifying a site with a list of high-profile resources and not white-listing or encouraging ignorance. For all its faults Norton has raised a flag and in Jim's case, both probable causes for the red flag are common attack vectors... "if it waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck..." is how the algorithm works. Better a false positive than none. One is reminded of the "boy who cried wolf"... It absolutely does not apply here but as faulted humans we tend to the obvious moral. We need to remain vigilant no matter how boring it gets.

Sad to say, each case has to be dealt with on it's own - even false positives have to be explored & rectified - just accept it or kill all scumbags. Even if Jim gives up his domain it should go on a blacklist immediately - some squatter will snag it (they watch for lapsing domains) and then it is available to the highest bidder - especially domains that have had a lot of traffic and been referenced elsewhere (how many favourites is he in?).

The only "safe" way to dump a domain with conscience is to buy a long lease on it and put up a "Bye-bye site closed" message that will be there for 5 years or so - then when it lapses, most interested people would have stopped visiting long ago and then any alerts either won't matter or will be true positives.

As Gizmo said... it used to be fun.

Remember the golden rule: They only have to be lucky once. Edited by CaptainBoing 2017-09-09

Boppa
Guru

Joined: 08/11/2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 807
Posted: 11:07pm 07 Sep 2017      

  CaptainBoing said  
That is a great idea and they are always looking for reasonable sized articles. It needs to be very thoughtful - I wouldn't mention specifics - it makes them targets. Remember these malware scumbags are VERY SMART - they have done their homework, and we don't want to give them the upper hand in such an article (yes they read this stuff too).

Bit extreme Captain, calling Nortons smart....

OH you mean the OTHER malware scumbags...

Unfortunately many people say the same thing- Nortons false positives are far too common, and getting off their blacklist costs and is very hard to do (if not almost impossible)

Considering that in many cases peoples livelihoods are placed at risk if their income depends on a website for sales etc, and it could be put forward that Nortons could be liable for lost income due to a false positive reducing sales, it would be (IMHO) worth looking at a class action against Nortons for website owners affected by a false positive report on their website

I'm not normally one to push for such legal actions, but this has been an issue for YEARS with Nortons continuing to shrug their shoulders and say 'not our problem' about false positives- well yes, yes it IS your problem, its YOUR shonky scanners that cause the issue, and if it causes people to lose money, then it should be their right for Nortons to compensate the owner for any lost income from their website

/rant off

calm blue ocean, calm blue ocean....