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Forum Index : Solar : $8000 rebate means Tested
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KarlJ Guru  Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
As you may well be aware means testing for the Solar Grid Connected Electricity became means tested for family incomes of $100,000 or less. No-one in this bracket -ie family 2 kids can afford the $4000 outlay after the rebate anyway. Send Green lobbiest turned Poloitian Peter Garrett an email expressing your disgust. Luck favours the well prepared |
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| petanque don Senior Member  Joined: 02/08/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 212 |
Well my household income is well below $100,000.00. I have a system on order. I have no idea what the demographic of the typical solar panel purchaser is. Certainly there are social equity issues in the tax system. How the wealth should be distributed will always be controversial. |
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| dwyer Guru Joined: 19/09/2005 Location: AustraliaPosts: 573 |
Hi I would not be bother chasing for rebates as to much hassle and papers works and still have to pay the cost, for installation.GST,worker wages, redtape , maybe a bank loan and every year maintence, too many rules these days .What happen if anyone want move to other home or area as still have to pay bank loan on installation . l rather go alone  |
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| kamel Newbie  Joined: 07/04/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5 |
Maybe it won't kill the budding solar industry dead... but it won't help. Extremely debatable that it saves the government any money, hurts an industry they should be encouraging, and murders any chance that the new government cares about climate change. |
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AMUN-RA Senior Member Joined: 10/03/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 144 |
It sure does hurt, budget night I had a job to do next day jobs off because client earns over the 100k but If you and the wife have a good job and work overtime and extra shifts it is not hard to earn 101k which puts the rebate out of you reach.If you have 3 kids 2 cars and a mortgage, can you afford to spend money on a solar system. none of this is taken into account in the means test. Every day the sun shines & gravity sucks= free energy. |
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| petanque don Senior Member Joined: 02/08/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 212 |
As harsh as it sounds making a business that is dependent on government handouts to exist will always place that business at the mercy of changing government policy. How many solar installers are doing quite nicely from this government handout I have no idea. How long an industry should be propped up because it can’t stand on its own merits is an interesting point. Certainly the mining industry seems to get its fair share of tax breaks and subsidies. |
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| kamel Newbie Joined: 07/04/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5 |
Mining ,health, education, you name it... Compared to those, the solar rebate is tiny, and several wouldn't survive without government hand outs [private health and private education both for certain]. If the government rebate covered 90% of the installation of a 1kw system, you still wouldn't get many people earning under 100k installing them. Not if they have a mortgage, kids, etc, etc. All this latest stuff up does is remove the incentive for people with surplus income to get involved. |
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| petanque don Senior Member Joined: 02/08/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 212 |
I will argue that the returns on flat panel solar are so poor that anybody with a mortgage be it $10,000 or $10,000,000 would get a better return on their money by paying the amount paid off their mortgage. So it seems people buy theses systems for non-economic reasons. I was under the impression that the number of systems that would qualify for the rebate was a fixed number and that at the pre-budget rate they would have been installed well before the date that the rebate was due to cease. Are politicians interested in saving the planet or being popular and getting people to vote for them? |
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fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
I would like to add that , yes under the new scheme it does not make it a viable economic decision at $4500 rebate and means tested to install a 1kw array for the working familys with mortgages.. But the economics were there under the $8000 scheme , at present it is about break even based on a 1kw array making an average of 5kw a day if your end cost was approx $4000 to install on a 1kw cost of 16c to 17c for the same amount invested @ 7.5% . But what it has done is hedged that portion of your power for 25 yrs , is power going to go up over that period ? Do politicians put money into areas that gives them the best returns in votes with our tax money? The decision to change te rebate will only affect .0001% of the general public , there are bigger vote catchers to spend our money on that make bigger news stories than Mr & Mrs Smith installing a solar panel to save the planet. Maybe the end result will be that it might force more competition onto the smaller solar suppliers to drop prices as they should have over the last year or so as our $ has climbed 40% against the US $ , but has not been passed on as yet as solar panels and inverters have not droped , although the main suppliers are probably holding the trump cards and have been arround for a fair while and the majority of their buisness would not be 1kw to Mums & Dads . The whole change has not made anymore than a few seconds on the evening news .. Hopefully comming up to the next election another rebate scheme will be proposed to sound green and catch votes.... Untill then PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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| AMUN-RA Senior Member Joined: 10/03/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 144 |
The rebates are still 8/per watt up to 1kw = $8000.00 Every day the sun shines & gravity sucks= free energy. |
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| petanque don Senior Member Joined: 02/08/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 212 |
Clearly you are doing better than me if you have your house mortgage at less than 7.5% while it is true that electricity prices will almost certainly rise. It is naïve to think that interest rates will never be more that 7.5% Whether the government is sick of profiteering and price gouging because of the rising Australian dollar by solar system suppliers I would not know. The standard economic model suggests that at the technology matures that the item should get cheaper. This has not happened with domestic solar power systems. |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Its true we are not doing it for economic short term gain, but the long term health of the planet, our kids and their kids. without the rebate would be simply out of the question as payback >25years and no-one with a $300K+ mortgage could possibly justify it. I have spent a good 6months selling the 1kw system with tracker at $5500 to my wife, with a 10year (optimistic payback)! $13500 on the other hand, I would have no chance to get approval from the wife or afford it. as far as our solar industry I couldn't agree more with an exchange rate close to 1 to 1 we are paying a good $1600 too much for panels over our US counterparts but- per the rebate we have no choice. Luck favours the well prepared |
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| petanque don Senior Member Joined: 02/08/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 212 |
Isn’t the real issue that people will have a large mortgage rather than live in a modest house? People go and buy a high performance car rather than a modest economical car. People use air travel to go on holidays when there are plenty of interesting places to go on holidays within a day’s drive. People have the money to spend but they choose to spend it on something different. If the wife thinks you don’t have $5,500 to spend a few days later suggest that you go on a $6,000 holiday and see what reaction you get. After all if you really can’t afford it you don’t have the money what ever the item is. |
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| Jon Bennett Newbie Joined: 01/11/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 27 |
Not sure what the senate can do but hopefully something? Senate inquirey into means testing solar rebate regards jon |
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| windlight Guru Joined: 03/03/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 331 |
Just my experiesnce but government rebates have created extreem greed in the Re industry, let me explain. I sought quotes on a solar installation to supply 7Kw/day to a house and obtained 3 quotes, I meet the criteria for 50% rebate. So quote one is for $72,500, so taking what they offer and comparing full retail price plus allowing around $7000 for installation and whatever. Total cost of goods at full retail plus labour $36,000, now there is something magic about that figure. I have 'e' mailed SEADO in WA and they are very defencive of the suppliers one can only wonder why. Quote two was slightly better, 2 kw of panels instead of 1.5 kw comparable price out of my pocket but more for my money. Quote three was better again 3 kw of panels. Now I don't know if this project will go ahead but it gets up my left nostral when suppliers as so blatantly gouging. I still remember what happened to solar hot water systems when a government subsidy was given for them, instant doubling of price. Solar panels in Australia are a little over $1000/kw at full retail, now if you were to pay $4500 for a 1 kw installation how much is the supplier making over their purchase cost of goods. I make it around $8,000 less instalation costs. allan "I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it" - (Act II, Scene IV). |
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| AMUN-RA Senior Member Joined: 10/03/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 144 |
Full retail is missing a 0 $10 dollars per watt has been the price for many years long before rebates so $10000 for the panels + inverter + balance of system+ install fo 1kw. 3kw at 10w=$30000 + for u batteries $30000???? + balance of system + install If your not happy with that get the grid connected and see what rebates you get and what it costs.Or buy yourself a genset and fill it up every day. Mick. cranbrooksolar Townsville solar system retailer & installer Mate I wish I could give them away so everyone can benifit  Every day the sun shines & gravity sucks= free energy. |
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| windlight Guru Joined: 03/03/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 331 |
Thanks for pointing out that pricing error but they are not quite as dear as you say, Solar on line has Sharp 175watt panels (just as an example) for a little under $8K/Kw. And a reasonable set of batteries will set one back around $16k (this is very dependant on what you need from your batteries). Anyway end of subject for me, I did not mean to start a war of words. allan "I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it" - (Act II, Scene IV). |
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| petanque don Senior Member Joined: 02/08/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 212 |
If you look at other electronic things like DVD players they have dropped enormously in price. The Australian dollar is a lot stronger now that what it was 2 years ago so $1AUD would buy a lot more imported stuff that it used to. Certainly from my casual observations. There has been little change in pricing of domestic solar systems why this is I have no idea. |
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GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
The panel cost is only a potion of a system cost. AMUN-RA gave system costs of $10/watt, not just the panel costs. Gordon. become more energy aware |
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| windlight Guru Joined: 03/03/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 331 |
Gordon what Mick gave was a 1 Kw inclusive as you say for $10,000, which after government rebate for those who qualify looks better than others have quoted in this thread. As you can see this could go on for ever. I quoted the Sharp panel because Mick has advertised said panels on this site. My orogional post had nothing to do with Mick or his business but was about 3 quotes I had received. They ranged from price gouging for what was being supplied to a fair quote for what was being supplied. As I said just my experience. allan "I like this place and willingly could waste my time in it" - (Act II, Scene IV). |
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