Home
JAQForum Ver 20.06
Log In or Join  
Active Topics
Local Time 08:43 26 Oct 2020 Privacy Policy
Jump to

Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.

Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Introducing the Colour Maximite 2

     Page 2 of 25    
Author Message
WhiteWizzard
Guru

Joined: 05/04/2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2790
Posted: 05:23pm 03 May 2020
Copy link to clipboard 
Print this post

  hitsware2 said  A separate P.C. is needed to load the interpreter ?

If you buy ‘raw components’ to build a unit, then yes - STM Cube program required to load Firmware file to the STM chip. STM Cube is free to download, as is the MMBASIC file.
No need for PC when using CMM2.
Hope that answers your question.
For everything Micromite visit micromite.org

Direct Email: whitewizzard@micromite.o
 
hitsware2

Senior Member

Joined: 03/08/2019
Location: United States
Posts: 240
Posted: 06:55pm 03 May 2020
Copy link to clipboard 
Print this post

Then with CMM2 interpreter is on ROM ?
Or ? I.E. :
Wuth CMM2 if the interpreter had a bug
then you'd need a PC to reload the program ?
http://www.hitswares.com/
 
WhiteWizzard
Guru

Joined: 05/04/2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2790
Posted: 07:23pm 03 May 2020
Copy link to clipboard 
Print this post

  hitsware2 said  .....if the interpreter had a bug
then you'd need a PC to reload the program ?

Yes you would.
For everything Micromite visit micromite.org

Direct Email: whitewizzard@micromite.o
 
hitsware2

Senior Member

Joined: 03/08/2019
Location: United States
Posts: 240
Posted: 07:31pm 03 May 2020
Copy link to clipboard 
Print this post

No way to do it with a USB stick or the card ?
I.E.
Download ? with a Raspberry Pi ...
Copy it to a stick or card ....
Plug that into the CMM ?
http://www.hitswares.com/
 
WhiteWizzard
Guru

Joined: 05/04/2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2790
Posted: 07:55pm 03 May 2020
Copy link to clipboard 
Print this post

  hitsware2 said  .....if the interpreter had a bug
then you'd need a PC to reload the program ?

Yes you would.
For everything Micromite visit micromite.org

Direct Email: whitewizzard@micromite.o
 
WhiteWizzard
Guru

Joined: 05/04/2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2790
Posted: 08:00pm 03 May 2020
Copy link to clipboard 
Print this post

SORRY everyone for all the double posts from me - there is something wrong somewhere.
I have sent Glenn (Gizmo) an email to alert him about this.
For everything Micromite visit micromite.org

Direct Email: whitewizzard@micromite.o
 
WhiteWizzard
Guru

Joined: 05/04/2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2790
Posted: 08:05pm 03 May 2020
Copy link to clipboard 
Print this post

  hitsware2 said  No way to do it with a USB stick or the card ?
I.E.
Download ? with a Raspberry Pi ...
Copy it to a stick or card ....
Plug that into the CMM ?


Here you’re still needing an external device (RPi) to download the file in the first place.
However, it would be a nice feature to upgrade via SD card (Peter?)
For everything Micromite visit micromite.org

Direct Email: whitewizzard@micromite.o
 
hitsware2

Senior Member

Joined: 03/08/2019
Location: United States
Posts: 240
Posted: 08:32pm 03 May 2020
Copy link to clipboard 
Print this post

  WhiteWizzard said  
  hitsware2 said  No way to do it with a USB stick or the card ?
I.E.
Download ? with a Raspberry Pi ...
Copy it to a stick or card ....
Plug that into the CMM ?


Here you’re still needing an external device (RPi) to download the file in the first place.
However, it would be a nice feature to upgrade via SD card (Peter?)

That's what I'm getting at.
I have a Pi in the house, but would put the CMM
in a separate building ( Man Cave ( sans internet ) ) .... : )
http://www.hitswares.com/
 
JohnS
Guru

Joined: 18/11/2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2198
Posted: 09:18pm 03 May 2020
Copy link to clipboard 
Print this post

  Geoffg said  
  JohnS said  What's it like running Life?

With the pause set to zero it runs at about half the speed of the DOS version (with VGA output, not Tera Term).
Not bad!

Geoff

Oh, that's a lot better than not bad!

John
 
JohnS
Guru

Joined: 18/11/2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2198
Posted: 09:26pm 03 May 2020
Copy link to clipboard 
Print this post

  hitsware2 said  No way to do it with a USB stick or the card ?
I.E.
Download ? with a Raspberry Pi ...
Copy it to a stick or card ....
Plug that into the CMM ?


You could download from an RPi.

Also, technically I think from such as SD / USB stick but I think the software to do it isn't there now (and maybe no-one will be in a hurry to include it?).

With ST_LINKs so common (and part of so many STM32 boards) they look an easy, attractive route I would say.

OpenOCD should work, if you like it.  Runs on lots of computers.

John
 
matherp
Guru

Joined: 11/12/2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4069
Posted: 09:41pm 03 May 2020
Copy link to clipboard 
Print this post

All STM32 chips have a built in bootloader and can be programmed without any special hardware via USB, UART, SPI, or I2C. To do this you need a host computer of some sort: Raspberry Pi, W10 PC, Linux PC etc.

They can not be programmed by upload from a USB disk or SDcard.
 
Turbo46
Guru

Joined: 24/12/2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 585
Posted: 10:10pm 03 May 2020
Copy link to clipboard 
Print this post

  Quote  So please jump in, build the Colour Maximite 2 and have some fun.

I want one NOW! What's the quickest way to get or build one in Australia?

Bill
Keep safe. Live long and prosper.
 
TassyJim

Guru

Joined: 07/08/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 3790
Posted: 10:16pm 03 May 2020
Copy link to clipboard 
Print this post

  JohnS said  Nice!

What's it like running Life?

John

I get about 10% faster than the H7.

It would depend on a few settings. Turning off Serial console etc will speed things up a bit and I haven't tried the different video modes to see what difference that makes.

I have been very impressed with the fast 'feel' of the CMM2 when using it to develop programs. Even SDcard access seems fast when loading images etc.

It took a while to get used to disk based but once I got my head around that way of thinking (just like big PCs), programming came easier.




If you use a RPi breakout board, make sure it is used the correct way around.
I had to re-terminate the cable on mine to get the orientation correct.

There is enough IO to keep most users happy.

Geoff should have waited until today to announce it so we could say "May the 4th be with you"

Jim
It all started with the ZX81....
VK7JH
http://www.c-com.com.au/MMedit.htm
 
JohnS
Guru

Joined: 18/11/2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2198
Posted: 10:38pm 03 May 2020
Copy link to clipboard 
Print this post

  matherp said  All STM32 chips have a built in bootloader and can be programmed without any special hardware via USB, UART, SPI, or I2C. To do this you need a host computer of some sort: Raspberry Pi, W10 PC, Linux PC etc.


Yes.

  matherp said  They can not be programmed by upload from a USB disk or SDcard.


I thought that was possible, sometimes called IAP, and explained in such as AN3155 with examples such as OpenBLT.

John
 
TassyJim

Guru

Joined: 07/08/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 3790
Posted: 11:07pm 03 May 2020
Copy link to clipboard 
Print this post

I haven't tried remote firmware updates but it might be possible.
Using STM32CubeProgrammer, you have two options applicable to the CMM2 - USB or UART.

USB is the fastest and requires a Male-Male USB cable connected to the keyboard port on the CMM2.
The other way uses the serial port and is much slower. It is that serial method that 'could' be extended over a serial bridge of some variety.

The CMM2 can be put into firmware loading mode with a command-line command so that is no problem.

Resetting the CMM2 after the upload might be needed.
Most configuration settings are retained during firmware updates.

Firmware updates shouldn't happen too often so physically moving the CMM2 to a suitable PC is not a big ask. You don't need a monitor or keyboard attached to do the updates.

Jim
It all started with the ZX81....
VK7JH
http://www.c-com.com.au/MMedit.htm
 
Geoffg

Guru

Joined: 06/06/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 2759
Posted: 12:12am 04 May 2020
Copy link to clipboard 
Print this post

  Turbo46 said  I want one NOW! What's the quickest way to get or build one in Australia?


CircuitGizmos (in the USA) has some ready to go while Peter (in the UK) has a few (that he built to prove the design) that I understand he will sell (best to PM matherp).

Grogster and WhiteWizzard are gearing themselves up but that will take some weeks.

Sourcing the parts is not hard and with DHL you should have them in a week or two.

Geoff
Geoff Graham - http://geoffg.net
 
flasherror
Newbie

Joined: 07/01/2019
Location: United States
Posts: 29
Posted: 12:56am 04 May 2020
Copy link to clipboard 
Print this post

Nice, looks like I need one (OK, more than one) of these.

I like that file manager and screen editor.

Questions

1. The only way to power this is via 5V USB "B" connector - there is no separate power jack apart from USB?

2. Kind of concerned about static/ESD on Pin 40 triggering unwanted program erasure. Any hardware filtering or long debounce on this pin for the power-up erase input check?

3. Was there a reason for full size SD cards rather than microSD?

Constructive criticism

1. It would be even better if there was a Mikroe CLICK socket on board to allow the many various CLICK boards to interface easily.

2. Similarly, PCB layout for User installed optional components:
NRF24L01 2.4GHz wireless module
ESP8266 10-pin "AT command" WiFi modules
ESP8266 Wemos D1 (might be more popular/available than the above modules but larger footprint)
JDY-40 2.4GHz wireless module or LC12S 2.4GHz wireless module (Both have the exact same 2mm header pinout so same PCB layout can work with both)
Probably the PCB doesn't have space for all of these but might be able to do one or two?

3. No DB9 serial port (I like serial ports, what can I say?)

4. That up/down toggle switch looks like an easy way to accidentally switch off power while fiddling around with I/O port wires etc. Wonder if a push/toggle switch might be better?

I realise CM2 is supposed to be a "Retro" desktop machine similar to the original Maximite but needs more I/O options. Due to the high speed and large memory capacity this would be a pretty nice "master controller" for wireless sensor networks or general electronics experimentation.
Edited 2020-05-04 11:01 by flasherror
 
Geoffg

Guru

Joined: 06/06/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 2759
Posted: 02:01am 04 May 2020
Copy link to clipboard 
Print this post

1.  No, the USB Type B is how you power it.

2.  There has been a lot of testing and we have not seen any unexpected resets.

3.  You can use both full size and micro SD cards (with adaptor).  If it was designed for only micro SD cards you would have been stuck with that and people would be complaining about the lack of full size support.

In my introduction I should have been clearer about the motivation behind the design.  It was to capture the fun of the personal computers of the early 80s like the Commodore 64, TRS-80 and Apple II.  It starts up immediately and in under a second you are at the BASIC prompt ready to have fun experimenting and trying out a program.

It was not designed to be a process controller or an Internet machine or anything like that.  You can if you want add stuff such as WiFi to the I/O connector but that was not the primary motivation.

It was also designed to be is a mean games machine.  For example, the graphics accelerator can be put into a 12-bit colour mode which supports three video layers.  The lowest layer is a solid background colour with the other two layers sitting above this.  Images on the upper layers can be specified with various levels of transparency so that (for example) an image on the top layer can be made to move over the lower levels while allowing some of the lower images to show through the transparent sections of the top image. Then there are Sprites, BLIT,  multiple sound formats, Nunchuk support and so on.

Two of our team were games programmers and they provided valuable input on what was needed in the design.  Some games are already in development and we should see them soon (Mauro & Martin, where are you?).  

Geoff
Geoff Graham - http://geoffg.net
 
TassyJim

Guru

Joined: 07/08/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 3790
Posted: 02:01am 04 May 2020
Copy link to clipboard 
Print this post

  flasherror said  
Questions

1. The only way to power this is via 5V USB "B" connector - there is no separate power jack apart from USB?

2. Kind of concerned about static/ESD on Pin 40 triggering unwanted program erasure. Any hardware filtering or long debounce on this pin for the power-up erase input check?

3. Was there a reason for full size SD cards rather than microSD?

Constructive criticism

Answers
1. Correct, the USB power is it.

2. No issues so far with long 40 way cable and various breadboards connected.

3. Large is easier to solder and easier for aging fingers to handle. Adapters are sufficient for micro cards.

Constructive criticism - you gave the answer. That is not the chosen market.

Serial, I2C and SPI are all available on the 40 way connector.
There are plenty of options for controller boards that need more IO.

Jim

Geoff beat me.
Edited 2020-05-04 12:04 by TassyJim
It all started with the ZX81....
VK7JH
http://www.c-com.com.au/MMedit.htm
 
OA47

Guru

Joined: 11/04/2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 689
Posted: 02:12am 04 May 2020
Copy link to clipboard 
Print this post

Thankyou to all concerned, I am excited to add another to the collection.

Happy Star Wars Day

OA47
 
     Page 2 of 25    
Print this page
© JAQ Software 2020