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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : CMM2 - Maximite2 Kit v3.0 PCB build notes

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KeepIS

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Posted: 09:57am 25 Jul 2020
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  Womble said  
When I fitted the crystal oscillator.  Do this first!!! I tinned the pads on the pcb, used solder wick to make sure there was only the smallest amount of solder bulge on the pad, applied some liquid flux, and tacked each of the 4 corners with a hot needle point iron.  This did a neat job for me.  As mentioned previously, be very careful not to create a short with the metal lid on the oscillator.


I did almost the same thing, tinned the pads of the xtal and then very clean tiny solder pads on the PCB, this allows you to get the tip of a tiny iron onto that solder pad and not bridge up onto the xtal can. Really neat in the end but as we both said, this would be dead easy if done during the build and not retrofitting them with sockets installed, BTW the difference in display quality and display position on lower res modes is now absolutely perfect in my case.
It's all too hard.
Mike.
 
Womble

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Joined: 09/07/2020
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Posts: 267
Posted: 11:13am 25 Jul 2020
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  KeepIS said  BTW the difference in display quality and display position on lower res modes is now absolutely perfect in my case.

Fixed my display problems too.  Picture is sharp and clean with no "screen tearing".

I still have an audio problem, but I am coming to the conclusion that I have a "duff" Waveshare Board.  
Time to bite the bullet and order a new Waveshare from China, hopefully it will arrive a quickly as the last one did.

[Edit #1] Did some more testing.  Still getting audio noise (pulsing/buzzing) with battery power, even with ground loop isolated.  I can only conclude its the Waveshare (or possibly the MCP221A).  I must have damaged it somehow.  Probem seems to be getting worse, with keyboard freezing sometimes now.  Have ordered new Waveshare and MCP221A ... hoipe this fixes the problems.
Edited 2020-07-26 01:06 by Womble
 
KeepIS

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Posted: 10:31pm 25 Jul 2020
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Simply unplugging the MCP221A will answer that question, it's not needed for the CMM2 to run. I have the audio connected to a small USB Audio ADC and no clicks or distortion, although you can hear a click when the CMM2 DAC is initialised, every Microprocessor with a DAC that I've used does that, however I did need a 0.1uf cap in each channel between the CMM2 DAC and the USB ADC, the audio ADC device didn't like the small offset voltage from the CMM2.
It's all too hard.
Mike.
 
Womble

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Posts: 267
Posted: 09:58am 26 Jul 2020
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  KeepIS said  Simply unplugging the MCP221A will answer that question, it's not needed for the CMM2 to run.

I'll give that a try.  I was not aware that the MCP221A was not required for general use.

I assume its there for firmware updates and serial/terminal communication over usb ?
I had thought it handled the USB keyboard too.

I will report back on my findings.  Many thanks for your help with this.
 
Womble

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Posted: 05:38pm 26 Jul 2020
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  Womble said  
  KeepIS said  Simply unplugging the MCP221A will answer that question, it's not needed for the CMM2 to run.

I'll give that a try.  I was not aware that the MCP221A was not required for general use.

Nope ... that didn't work either

The CMM2 will fire up without the MCP221A and programs/files/editor all work fine,  AND the annoying heartbeat click, buzz, audio noise is still there.

Many thanks for your help.
Patience will be required awaiting arrival of replacement from China  
Edited 2020-07-27 03:40 by Womble
 
Womble

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Posted: 05:03pm 04 Aug 2020
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New Waveshare arrived from China.

Carefully fitted it to my Colour Maximite 2 v3.0 kit, I didn't remove the crystal!

And

It behaves exactly the same way as the old one  

There is buzzing/noise on the audio  
especially in the Files or Edit program modes.
The tick tick tick is driving me   crazy, its almost like a 1 second heartbeat,
and the buzzing over the top makes the device unuseable to code on.

I have tried the following:
01. Different amplified PC Speakers.
02. Passive high impedance PC Speakers.
03. Inserting a "Ground Loop Isolator" in the audio connection.
04. Unplugging the speakers (fixed audio, but keyboard seems to crash more frequently)
05. Different LCD Monitors.
06. Different USB Power Supplies.
07. Powering it from a USB PowerBank.
08. Different USB Keyboards
(because the keyboard sometimes crashes) Logitech K120 seems most reliable.
09. Removing the MCP221A completely.
10. Replacing the MCP21A.
11. Fitting the Oscillator Mod (fixed the video ... NOT the audio)
12. Carefully checking my board assembly, multiple times.
13. NEW WAVESHARE BOARD (also a "V" 480Mhz one)

Current firmware = CMM2_Beta_5.05.05b5

I'm stumped.  

I will try to figure out  how to record this issue and post a video recording showing the problem.  Not sure if I need to post to youtube and link, or if I can upload a small clip here.  Need to figure out how to take the video first.
 
matherp
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Posted: 05:50pm 04 Aug 2020
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Given that the new Waveshare gives the same problem then the issue is clearly on the motherboard. The audio should be completely clean and the keyboard shouldn't crash which suggests to me there is an issue with GND, possibly a faulty via. I'm back in the UK Saturday. Send me a PM with your address and I'll send you a loaner motherboard. If you got the original off Phil (WW) I suggest you contact him for help as there is clearly something wrong.
 
Atomizer_Zero
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Joined: 04/07/2020
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Posted: 06:47pm 04 Aug 2020
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Something interesting to me is, if the cmm2 is running, and I unplug the video video from it, a ton of audio noise appears. So, i'm assuming its taking ground from the monitor. So, try a different VGA cable. Try a different screen if you can. Make sure all pins on the VGA connector are soldered down.
Edited 2020-08-05 04:49 by Atomizer_Zero
 
Womble

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Posted: 08:40pm 04 Aug 2020
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  Atomizer_Zero said  So, try a different VGA cable. Try a different screen if you can. Make sure all pins on the VGA connector are soldered down.

Been there ... done that.  I will check again.  Thanks.

  matherp said  Given that the new Waveshare gives the same problem then the issue is clearly on the motherboard. The audio should be completely clean and the keyboard shouldn't crash which suggests to me there is an issue with GND, possibly a faulty via. I'm back in the UK Saturday. Send me a PM with your address and I'll send you a loaner motherboard.

Peter, many thanks for your offer of a loaner motherboard.  I will get a PM off to you.

  matherp said  If you got the original off Phil (WW) I suggest you contact him for help as there is clearly something wrong.

I did get the kit from Phil (WW), one of the very first he sent out.  He was very helpful whilst I was building it up, but recently I understand has been snowed under with the demand for CMM2s.  I will drop him a line.

  Womble said  I will try to figure out  how to record this issue and post a video recording showing the problem...  Need to figure out how to take the video first.

The attached zip file contains a short video demonstrating the problem
20200804_CMM2v3kit.zip
it should playback in VLC or similar.

Many thanks to you all for your help with my CMM2

Regards

Womble
 
Atomizer_Zero
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Posted: 09:08pm 04 Aug 2020
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OK. So I did some tests. I have a v2.1 DIY board (which I soldered myself) and a Assembled board from micromite.org. Running that wireframe demo, I can hear the "ticking" but its SO quiet, that I need to turn my volume up 100% and then put my ear to the speaker, or squeeze the headphones to my ears. Do you still get the noise without an SD card in? I get a "seeking" sound when I load programs, which is quite audible, but nothing really after that.
 
Womble

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Posted: 09:21pm 04 Aug 2020
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  Atomizer_Zero said  Do you still get the noise without an SD card in?

Yes ... Its a regular tick, like a heartbeat, at about 1Hz and is present all the time.

The frequency increaces during the wireframe "bucky.bas" test and seems to synchronise with the motion of the wireframe ball.

When you run "Files" or "Edit" commands, the heartbeat/tick is drowned out by that awful buzzing noise.  This seems to be related to video mode.

The heartbeat/tick I could live with.  The noise when editing a file is unbearable.
 
Atomizer_Zero
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Posted: 10:16pm 04 Aug 2020
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The sound in your video actually sounds like you're taking an amplified audio source and amplifying it further...

I would just turn the volume on your speakers down to nearly off or something for now, while your coding and only turn it up when you want to test audio stuff out, until you get one working properly. Hopefully you get it sorted soon.
 
KeepIS

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Posted: 11:05pm 04 Aug 2020
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Sounds like you need to unplug the Waveshare and check all ground pins on the 80P skts and motherboard. Also check for and leakage / shorts around PA4 and PA5 (DAC L/R out) pins. Sounds like leakage between DAC out and a video ctrl line and more like a defect motherboard.

  Atomizer_Zero said  Something interesting to me is, if the cmm2 is running, and I unplug the video video from it, a ton of audio noise appears.


I can unplug the VGA connector and it makes absolutely no difference, there is no noise to start with and no noise with VGA unplugged whilst powered up.
It's all too hard.
Mike.
 
TassyJim

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Posted: 12:02am 05 Aug 2020
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One thing I can't determine from the recording.
Is the noise on one channel only or the same on both left and right?

Jim
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robert.rozee
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Joined: 31/12/2012
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Posted: 12:47am 05 Aug 2020
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it sounds suspiciously like one or both of:
(a) a missing ground connection between the CMM2 and your audio amplifier,
(b) DC-coupled audio.

make absolutely sure there is continuity between the CMM2's ground and the ground of your audio amplifier. a missing ground could be caused by: unsoldered ground pin on the audio out jack on the CMM2, missing or broken trace on the PCB. also check continuity between the USB console socket shell and the -ve RTC battery terminal - WITHOUT the USB or audio cables plugged in.

if your audio amplifier does not have series capacitors on its input, add these in the audio cable.


cheers,
rob   :-)
Edited 2020-08-05 10:49 by robert.rozee
 
BrianP
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Posted: 05:13am 05 Aug 2020
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Another question:

Does this noise relate to SD card activity?

B
 
TassyJim

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Posted: 07:08am 05 Aug 2020
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I know you have checked the wiring but can we do a test.
 Connect the audio left and right audio to pins 7 and 8
 It doesn't matter which go where at this stage.
 
 Run this program:
 SETPIN 7, AIN
 SETPIN 8, AIN
 DAC 1, 0
 DAC 2, 0
 PRINT "Left  ";STR$(PIN(7),3,2);" Right ";STR$(PIN(8),3,2)
 DAC 1, 1.65
 DAC 2, 1.65
 PRINT "Left  ";STR$(PIN(7),3,2);" Right ";STR$(PIN(8),3,2)
 DAC 1, 3.3
 DAC 2, 3.3
 PRINT "Left  ";STR$(PIN(7),3,2);" Right ";STR$(PIN(8),3,2)
 DAC 1, 1.65
 DAC 2, 1.65
 do:loop


 The output should be similar to this:
Left    0.02 Right   0.03
Left    1.66 Right   1.65
Left    3.29 Right   3.29


If not, there is a wiring problem.

Next, using Peters FFT demo, slightly modified.
Run this program with the audio pins still connected to pin 7 and 8

 OPTION EXPLICIT
 OPTION DEFAULT NONE
 OPTION VCC 3.308
 CONST SAMPLESPERSEC = 10000
 CONST NSAMPLES = 512
 CONST PLOTFREQ = NSAMPLES\512
 DIM INTEGER i, j, imax, imax1, toggle
 DIM FLOAT a(NSAMPLES-1) , b(NSAMPLES-1), a1(NSAMPLES-1), b1(NSAMPLES-1)
 DIM INTEGER c%(179), d%(179),x1(255),x2(255),y1(255),y2(255),y3(255), y4(255)
 DIM FLOAT m(NSAMPLES-1) , mmax , m1(NSAMPLES-1), mmax1,p
 DIM k$
 CLS
 FOR i=0 TO 255
   x1(i)= i*2+194
   x2(i)= i*2+195
 NEXT i
 
 '
 ' First set up some signals using the onboard DAC playing music
 ' connect PA4 to pin 7 and PA5 to pin 8
 '
 ' start the DAC
 '
 'PLAY MP3 "noise"
 'play tone 1000,2000
 'play volume 30,30
 '
 ' convert the signals
 '
 toggle=1
 PAGE WRITE 1
 CLS
 ADC OPEN SAMPLESPERSEC, 7, 8,, adc_done
 ADC START a(), b()
 TEXT 10,40,"Channel 1",,3
 TEXT 10,150,"Frequency 1",,3
 TEXT 10,320,"Channel 2",,3
 TEXT 10,430,"Frequency 2",,3
 DO
   DO
   LOOP WHILE j=0
   j=0
   IF toggle THEN
     ADC START a1(),b1()
     toggle=0
   ELSE
     ADC START a(),b()
     toggle=1
   ENDIF
   
   '
   ' frequency analyse the signals
   '
   IF MM.INFO(VERSION)>=5.0504 THEN
     IF  toggle THEN
       MATH FFT MAGNITUDE b1(),m()
       MATH FFT MAGNITUDE a1(),m1()
     ELSE
       MATH FFT MAGNITUDE b(),m()
       MATH FFT MAGNITUDE a(),m1()
     ENDIF
   ELSE
     IF  toggle THEN
       FFT MAGNITUDE b1(),m()
       FFT MAGNITUDE a1(),m1()
     ELSE
       FFT MAGNITUDE b(),m()
       FFT MAGNITUDE a(),m1()
     ENDIF
   ENDIF
   BOX 194,0,MM.HRES-287,MM.VRES,1,&HFFFFFF,0
   FOR p = 0 TO 512 STEP 102.4
   TEXT 194+p,500,STR$(INT(p*9.765625)),cm
   TEXT 194+p,220,STR$(INT(p*9.765625)),cm
   NEXT p
   '
   ' remove the upper and lower values
   '
   FOR i=1 TO 5
      m(i)= 0
      m1(i) = 0
      m(NSAMPLES\2-i)= 0
      m1(NSAMPLES\2-i) = 0
   NEXT i
   '
   ' find the maximum magnitude of the frequencies
   '
   mmax=0
   mmax1=0
   FOR i=1 TO NSAMPLES\2-1
     IF m(i)>mmax THEN
       mmax=m(i)
       imax=i
     ENDIF
     IF m1(i)>mmax1 THEN
       mmax1=m1(i)
       imax1=i
     ENDIF
   NEXT i
   '
   ' plot the samples
   '
   FOR i=1 TO 255
     IF toggle THEN
       y1(i)=130 - a1(i-1)*40
       y2(i)=130 - a1(i)*40
       y3(i)=410 - b1(i-1)*50
       y4(i)=410 - b1(i)*50
     ELSE
       y1(i)=130 - a(i-1)*40
       y2(i)=130 - a(i)*40
       y3(i)=410 - b(i-1)*50
       y4(i)=410 - b(i)*50
     ENDIF
   NEXT i
   LINE x1(),y1(),x2(),y2(),1,RGB(MAGENTA)
   LINE x1(),y3(),x2(),y4(),1,RGB(GREEN)
   '
   ' plot the frequency analyses
   '
   FOR i=2 TO 255
     y1(i)=470-m((i-1)*PLOTFREQ)/mmax*100
     y2(i)=470 - m(i*PLOTFREQ)/mmax*100
     y3(i)=190-m1((i-1)*PLOTFREQ)/mmax1*100
     y4(i)=190 - m1(i*PLOTFREQ)/mmax1*100
   NEXT i
   LINE x1(),y1(),x2(),y2(),1,RGB(YELLOW)
   LINE x1(),y3(),x2(),y4(),1,RGB(YELLOW)
   TEXT 250,530,STR$(INT(mmax)),cm
   TEXT 250,250,STR$(INT(mmax1)),cm
   PAGE COPY 1 TO 0
   k$ = INKEY$
 LOOP UNTIL k$ <> ""
 IF k$ = "P" OR k$ = "p" THEN SAVE IMAGE "CRO"+MID$(TIME$,1,2)+MID$(TIME$,4,2)+MID$(TIME$,7,2)+".BMP"
 '
 PLAY STOP
 
END
 
SUB adc_done
 j=1
END SUB

Pressing 'P" will grab a copy of the screen and end the program.

Playing the audio from your MP4, gives this output:



Once the audio has stopped, this is what I get.



The FFT (yellow) is auto-scaling so any background noise is dramatically amplified when there is no audio playing.
The number below the frequency scale is the amplitude of the spectrum.
Some of the spectrum is due to artifacts, some will be actual noise, none of which I can hear.

Post a coy of your results.

Jim
VK7JH
MMedit   MMBasic Help
 
Womble

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Joined: 09/07/2020
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 267
Posted: 11:38am 05 Aug 2020
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  TassyJim said  One thing I can't determine from the recording.
Is the noise on one channel only or the same on both left and right?

Jim ... its the same on both channels.

Everyone ... Many thanks for your help and ideas.  I will give this a go, and report back on my findings.
Edited 2020-08-05 21:42 by Womble
 
Womble

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Joined: 09/07/2020
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 267
Posted: 06:22pm 05 Aug 2020
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  robert.rozee said  make absolutely sure there is continuity between the CMM2's ground and the ground of your audio amplifier.

Yes  

  robert.rozee said  also check continuity between the USB console socket shell and the -ve RTC battery terminal - WITHOUT the USB or audio cables plugged in.

Yes  

  robert.rozee said  if your audio amplifier does not have series capacitors on its input, add these in the audio cable.

Tested with multiple amplified PC speakers, and with high impedance passive speakers.  Same symptoms.  What value and type of capacitors do you suggest adding to the audio cable ?
 
Womble

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Joined: 09/07/2020
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 267
Posted: 06:23pm 05 Aug 2020
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  BrianP said  Another question:

Does this noise relate to SD card activity?

B

Does not appear to be related to SD card access.
 
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