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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Sprint Layout
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| Tinine Guru  Joined: 30/03/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1646 |
Yup, if by some freak of nature, my board actually works....Gonna re-do it in DEX Craig Edited 2022-06-27 06:15 by Tinine |
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Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 5742 |
Sprint Layout isn't an ideal tool for PCB design. As you say, Peter, doing a layout without doing a schematic first is definitely the wrong way round. However, it does have a few things which IMHO make it acceptable for simple designs. The DRC is a little crude, but it works well. The "test probe" is excellent. It highlights everything connected to the point probed, following vias along the entire route. There is no need to visually trace anything. Any pad or via can be a thermal pad (vias are actually small pads). Creation of blocks (macros) is extremely easy and can be done pretty much "on the fly". There is no need to create details such as specific I/O pins or footprints. I didn't choose SL6 lightly. In the past I've also tried: Eagle, which I liked a lot but, once AutoDesk took over, it became *very* limited unless you spent a lot of money on it. It was nice to use and parts seemed to be fairly easy to find (because at the time it had a big hobbyist following). KiCAD was another that I tried, but I found that the parts available were almost always out of date, very specific or difficult to find. Having to load a library of 1000 components because you want a single IC isn't funny - it takes a lot of disk space, which I don't have. Creating new parts was (and probably still is) a nightmare. There are probably millions of parts available, but actually finding what you want is close to impossible. As KiCAD is sponsored the default library is from a single manufacturer and contains an enormous amount of completely useless stuff for the hobbyist. There is *a lot* of detailed documentation, but it feels as if it is targeted at established PCB CAD users. There is very little for beginners and the learning curve is steep. If you can get into it, though, it's a great package. I've also tried a couple of free PCB packages that (for me anyway) were simply too unstable to use. Recently I've looked at Design Spark PCB 100. So far I've not got on well with it at all. Perhaps if I could drag myself away from designing PCBs I could learn it better. :) Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| pwillard Senior Member  Joined: 07/06/2022 Location: United StatesPosts: 274 |
I really meant it when I said that Sprint-Layout is ideal for those cheapo 100x100mm boards. Your designs won't really be so complex that you need the benefits of FULL EDA capabilities. I also said that for more complex work, I use Kicad, and I'm getting used to it. It's really not that hard to make your own stuff with Kicad... but, with that said... you often have to make your own stuff... and the process can be really tedious and time-consuming. That's really why working with Sprint is so great. You get results fast. I also own SPLAN 8.0... but while they are not LINKED in any way... I do make schematics. |
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9066 |
I'm a bit weird, cos I just "See" the schematic in my head, and design the layout directly from my mental image of the schematic. But that is ONLY for MY boards. Whenever I do a board for someone else, they must supply a schematic for me to design from, as I can't "See" their design in my head like I can see my ones.  All the other CAD PCB softwares I have tried have either been way to expensive for what they do, or are overly complex - or both. I like SL cos it is simple and easy to use, and it does everything I have ever needed to do. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Tinine Guru Joined: 30/03/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1646 |
Pretty much what I'm doing at the moment. Stringing 4 PGA2040s together as slaves to a Parallax P2 Edge. Apart from that, I have buffering and opamps to LPF the PWM for +/- 10v. No rocket science. I love the 3d rendering thing (DEX and others) though because my goal is to produce a controller that can be fixed...in the field...by mere mortals. As I have an Android Tablet for the HMI, I can incorporporate video tutorials, animations and documentation.  Craig |
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| Tinine Guru Joined: 30/03/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1646 |
Many thanks for the macros, guys....some really neat stuff @pwillard: What happens with the chip labels? Do you send the file to a PCB manufacturer and they come back as separate boards? Craig |
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| pwillard Senior Member Joined: 07/06/2022 Location: United StatesPosts: 274 |
Not weird at all... I do the exact same thing. I do often draw it with SPLAN or with a pencil... and then use that to make sure I know what I'm drawing in Sprint. While I have not used DEX in 8 years or so... I'm not sure I would want to back to it. Edited 2022-06-28 00:33 by pwillard |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 3558 |
Hi I think I uses Sprint Layout in the past when it was still called Protel, and ran on MSDOS machines. It's come a long way since then. And then, as well as now, it will have had it's merits. But it is really hard to prevent faults in a larger PCB if you need to check between layout and schematics yourself (@Mick...the 3V3ENA jumper connecting no-where on the GAME 1.4 board, despite all good checks). Anyway, use what you are happy with, but for a board that has hundreds of nodes (like Tinine's) you may want to look at something that relates a schematics the the copper. Or prepare for revision B of the board before you ship to the customer. I use KICAD and it has tons of library parts, an active community, and is maintained (and runs well on Windows, linux and MAC-OS). The MAC-OS version is lagging a bit behind in features, is not updates as frequently as the other 2). Edited 2022-06-28 01:17 by Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 5742 |
I had KiCAD set up on another machine some time ago and I suspect I'd be using it now but for two things: the libraries were enormous - I can't spare the storage on this little fanless box (and I'm not sure that this 2-core Celeron would work well with it) - and the incredibly long-winded way of producing new parts. I do miss Eagle, but AutoDesk have completely killed it for home users now. The free version is all but useless for all but the simplest boards. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| pwillard Senior Member Joined: 07/06/2022 Location: United StatesPosts: 274 |
Protel became DEX, Sprint Layout has always been a stand-alone. I think I actually enjoy Kicad more than Eagle... which is something I thought I would never say. Edited 2022-06-28 02:26 by pwillard |
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| lizby Guru Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3018 |
I use an older free version of Eaglecad, v9.6.2. It works fine for boards up to 100mm by 100mm. (Not saying that my PCBs aren't among the simplest.) Lots of parts, and I just modified a part to make my own for the first time. (And I'd have to look at all the resources I used to do it a second time.) If this laptop that it's installed on dies, though, I may have to learn a new CAD. PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed |
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| Paul_L Guru Joined: 03/03/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 769 |
Hi Lance, back up the entire disk using Macrium Reflect. There is a free version and it can restore the entire disk to dissimilar hardware if needed. Paul in NY |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 5742 |
Why does the DesignSpark web site assume that I'm happy to have their cookies on my computer by default and that it's up to me to block them in my browser? Sod 'em. I'm not having that. I'd rather look somewhere else. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| pwillard Senior Member Joined: 07/06/2022 Location: United StatesPosts: 274 |
They have always seemed kind of scummy to me... "We give this to you for free... your personal info makes it worth it to us". The COOKIE thing also seems to me to be a bit lazy on their part. IMHO: Other than for marketing reasons, I see no reason to make you log in to download the software, and then you need to register to *activate it*. It also means you must have an account to do anything so even if you don't end up using it... they have info about you. |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 5742 |
I'm not certain that that way of handling cookies on a web site is even legal. You aren't actually given an option to refuse them. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| lizby Guru Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3018 |
Hey, Paul. I have Macromium Reflect, but didn't realize it could restore to dissimilar hardware. That's a nifty feature. Guess I should take another of that type of backup soon. PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed |
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| Tinine Guru Joined: 30/03/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1646 |
I'm not reading it that way... Craig |
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| Tinine Guru Joined: 30/03/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1646 |
Putting stuff on my computer? They might believe that they are doing that.  Craig |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 5742 |
I had another play with DesignSpark last night - and managed not to get violent with the PC, tempting though it was. It's quite an ugly-looking program. It's not helped by the single-stroke font that's used. I know the historical reasons for using them, but that doesn't make them any less vile. Many years ago, when I first started with AutoCAD Release 9, that's what I had to put up with. I made the change to nicer fonts (such as a 3-stroke Roman font and later arial) as soon as the hardware could manage it. Now that graphics handling is off-loaded to a GPU and screens are bigger than 12" and have resolutions greater than 800x600 there really isn't a need to default to single stroke fonts. You don't even need them on plotters now. You won't find a word processor that uses them. If you want a monospaced font then there are plenty. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| Tinine Guru Joined: 30/03/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1646 |
Downloaded KiCAD last night but I daren't run the installation because I'll get side-tracked. Then I discovered that I already have the free version of Diptrace installed which looks pretty darn cool. 300pins and 2 signal-layer limit. Craig |
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