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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Why does not Maximate have the coloured e

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fifan
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Joined: 09/02/2012
Location: Russian Federation
Posts: 9
Posted: 02:03am 09 Feb 2012
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Good afternoon. Sorry to my English. Do I want to ask an author why VGA an exit does not use the colors of RGB? If to apply exits that Can be separately shown out R, G, B signals. We live in 21 century and it is not needed to repeat the computers of 80th of the last century. Such computers there was a generous enough amount in our Russia. If it is necessary I can drive references to the internet, where devices are already collected destroying the coloured signal on VGA I will eat away.
 
Gizmo

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Joined: 05/06/2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 4710
Posted: 03:01am 09 Feb 2012
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Hi fifan

To keep it simple. Colour needs more pins and more firmware. Maximite is good because it is like computers of 80's. Easy to use, and very cheap.

Glenn
"If it dont fit, use a bigger hammer."

The Back Shed
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djuqa

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Joined: 23/11/2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 447
Posted: 03:17am 09 Feb 2012
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Exactly, it is designed to be
1/ Simple, cheap computer that can be a dedicated control computer.
2/ Easy to learn to use.
3/ Compact in SIZE
4/ Using the limited, but powerful resources of the PIC32 chip
Color needs a LOT more of the usable memory the PIC32 has.

More features = More Size , cost , difficultly in usage.
You want colour
Buy 1 of the following
1/ Desktop
2/ Laptop
3/ Android Tablet
4/ Duinomite with GameDuino Shield (Maximite compatible)


Edited by djuqa 2012-02-10
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Olimex
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Joined: 02/10/2011
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 226
Posted: 05:52am 09 Feb 2012
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Maximite does everything with just PIC32, so you have to balance the available resources.
B/W video 480x432 is remarcable result achieved just with microcontroller, I do not recall other similar project to have such resolution. And on top of this to implement so complete language interpreter.

at the moment there is only 30K left for code,adding only 8 colors i.e. 1 bit per RGB will have to triple the video memory which means no space for code and variables, so this is just not possible.

The workaround which DM does with Gameduino shield is to release the processor from the video generation and extra external memory this way you release more RAM for the language and do not bother to generate video, but this is achieved with additional cost for the Gameduino board.
 
fifan
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Joined: 09/02/2012
Location: Russian Federation
Posts: 9
Posted: 07:16am 09 Feb 2012
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In the former USSR at the end of the last century there was much realization of computers on the base of microprocessors of I8080 and Z80(Spectrum compatible computers). These were the coloured computers. They have an enormous amount of software. Modern technologies allow to realize any of these computers in one FPGA(exist already) and expend on making of computer in two or three times less money, than on Maximate.
I not in which case do not underestimate a value Maximate, I even wanted to buy him. But then what in him there is not a color it very unhinged me.Edited by fifan 2012-02-10
 
djuqa

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Joined: 23/11/2011
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Posted: 07:43am 09 Feb 2012
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The Maximite was designed as a Hobby / Experimental / Control computer
NOT as a general purpose computer.
Most applications for the Maximite/DuinoMite do not NEED COLOUR but do need memory / IO and ease of USE.

Yes you can implement Old 8BIT Processors as a FPGA project, but would it be as useful as the 32BIT Processor that is the PIC32. I loved Z80 Processors also (IN 1989's)

Yes some people have implemented Colour PIC32 Computers,

But would it have the support/Distribution and down right Magical appeal of the Maximite or DuinoMite range of Boards. Edited by djuqa 2012-02-10
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Olimex
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Joined: 02/10/2011
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 226
Posted: 08:35am 09 Feb 2012
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  fifan said  Modern technologies allow to realize any of these computers in one FPGA(exist already) and expend on making of computer in two or three times less money, than on Maximate.


DuinoMite-Mini cost EUR 19.95 retail.
Can you please send me link to FPGA project which implements Z80 or other retro 8-bit computer with keyboard, VGA support at 1/3 of this cost i.e. about EUR 6.50?
 
fifan
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Joined: 09/02/2012
Location: Russian Federation
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Posted: 12:52pm 09 Feb 2012
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  Olimex said  
DuinoMite-Mini cost EUR 19.95 retail.
Can you please send me link to FPGA project which implements Z80 or other retro 8-bit computer with keyboard, VGA support at 1/3 of this cost i.e. about EUR 6.50?

I talked about the cost of Maximite Basic SD Card Computer Kit - $89.
I have DevBoard Reverse U10. His price is 1200 Russian roubles. It is equivalent $40,43. She supports today 6 configurations real 8 bit computers. These computers use emulations of I8080/Z80 processors.
u10
Technical descriptions:
PCB size - 75 x 84 mm
FPGA - Altera Cyclone III EP3C5/EP3C10
Memory - SRAM 512KB/1MB/2MB x 8 bit & SPI FLASH 512KB/1MB/2MB
Audio codec - VS1053b Ogg Vorbis/MP3/AAC/WMA/FLAC/MIDI
Clock - PCF8583
VGA - 512 colors
Slot for SD of map
Interface of RS232
20 pin input/ouput & +5V & GND
PS/2 for connecting of keyboard & mouse.Edited by fifan 2012-02-10
 
djuqa

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Joined: 23/11/2011
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Posts: 447
Posted: 01:29pm 09 Feb 2012
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Emulation of Intel 8080a & Z80a
With a 40USD FPGA board
Still only gives you a $40USD FPGA Dev. Board with a little software support for ZX Spectrum (which did not even have great colour support in 1980's) and other retro computers.

Versus

$89 gives you a complete functioning KIT Maximite (original Design) with Basic/Box/Support/ and is Usable.
$40 gives you a complete ASSEMBLED DuinoMite PCB with Arduino Support and Is Usable.

Both feature a REAL 32BIT Pic32 not some Emulated Bit CPU (Russia never did figure out how to make REAL z80 / 8080 CPU's)

Plus the PIC32 can also emulate Z80 but why BOTHER.

Fifan, the u10 has some application and usage, but so does the Maximite/Duinomite
The Spectrum CLONES had a lot of support in Russia, but most of the free world moved onto REAL PC's soon after AMSTRAD Takeover of Sinclair Research.
(I worked for AMSTRAD/SINCLAIR as Technical Support)

Just like the 1980's ZX SPECTRUM was only really good for games and simple programs hence the need for colour, but the MM/DM is more like a 1980 Business/industrial computer NO colour but a LOT more Processing power and FLEXIBILTY for the REAL WORLD tasks it is called upon to do.



Edited by djuqa 2012-02-11
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fifan
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Joined: 09/02/2012
Location: Russian Federation
Posts: 9
Posted: 02:01pm 09 Feb 2012
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  djuqa said  Russia never did figure out how to make REAL z80 / 8080 CPU's

The most generous amount of clones of Spectrum was done in Russia. Did it could will happen if we did not know a device and work of these processors? Kernel of kodas of language of vhdl, that is used on u10 invented not in Russia, and in Sweden - source codes.Edited by fifan 2012-02-11
 
YT2095

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Joined: 07/02/2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 22
Posted: 02:02pm 09 Feb 2012
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Dobro den moy drug ;)


I think it`s also worth remembering that the neither the Z80 or the 8080 (8085 and such) didn`t intinctively support color.
there was a Lot of analog hardware on the board of these computers such as Spectrum or trs80 etc... that enabled color output.
and although this Could technically be done on an PIC32, the pixels would be like golf balls!
yes you would only need another 3 bits to get 8 colors, but you also need the Analog hardware to impose those waveforms onto the vid signal (and in the right place), this gets Very complex!
I do understand what you are saying, and at face value it seems a relatively trivial task, I assure you it isn`t.
especially since the pic32 doesn`t inherently support Video in way of an on-chip peripheral and has to be effectively Bit banged, you`d lose running speed too, even if you could do it in 16k of Vid ram :)

Poka :)

 
fifan
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Joined: 09/02/2012
Location: Russian Federation
Posts: 9
Posted: 02:25pm 09 Feb 2012
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I like Your knowledge of Russian. But Poka is this farewell on great while, it is better to say Do svidanya - Goodbye.
In one of computers on I8080 parallel video memory of color is done. Data in this memory are written down synchronously with the conclusion of signal on a screen. We have(a computer is Spetsialist) 12 kByte memory with permission of screen 384 on 256 points. One color on 8 on 8 points. 16 colors are possible. Is it possible to do on Maximite?
 
fifan
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Joined: 09/02/2012
Location: Russian Federation
Posts: 9
Posted: 02:28pm 09 Feb 2012
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This revision requires a presence external memory. Is not it included in conception of Maximite?Edited by fifan 2012-02-11
 
CircuitGizmos

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Joined: 08/09/2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1110
Posted: 03:21pm 09 Feb 2012
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fifan: The Maximite is obviously not going to suit your needs. It isn't what you want.

You might want to look for the SolderCore.

http://soldercore.com

- - - - -

The SolderCore is an embedded development platform in the Arduino form factor based upon a modern, peripheral-rich, 32-bit micro controller. Used in its naked form it is a compelling product to develop on. When used in conjunction with CoreBASIC you a have fun, easy, web-enabled platform that will have your application up and running within minutes.

In addition to the standard Arduino interfaces the SolderCore provides USB OTG (micro AB) and 10 or 100mbps Ethernet (RJ45). SolderCore adds new peripheral support to the Arduino platform including I2S, CAN and a second I2C port. Furthermore the board also supports a number of storage devices including microSD and FRAM. SolderCore is compatible with existing Arduino Shields and the hardware will be open source under a Creative Commons Non-Commercial licence.

The SolderCore has been designed to appeal to a wide audience. For those who are familiar with C and ARM assembly, the SolderCore can be programmed using the tool of their choice. This provides the most flexibility but at the highest complexity.Enthusiasts familiar with Arduino environment can utilise the Wiring API which is integrated in Rowley Associates CrossWorks IDE. The added advantage here, is that for the first time, Arduino users will be able to step through code and rapidly debug applications in a rich and easy-to-use IDE. The third option for programming SolderCore is to use CoreBASIC in a brand new development environment. CoreBASIC leverages the power of the 32-bit processor using high-level commands that makes programming accessible and fun.



Hardware Features
Arduino Form Factor
Based upon a 100 MHz Cortex-M3
With 256KB or 512KB Flash, 96KB contiguous RAM
Built in Ethernet support with an on-board RJ45 connector.
USB OTG support with an on board microAB connector.
On board microSD holder.
Support for additional Flash and FRAM devices.
CAN, I2S, 2xI2C, UART, PWM, ADC, SPI and QEI supported
On board standard 10 way SWD JTAG header.
Power can be supplied via USB or the barrel jack (6V – 9V DC).
Supports CoreBASIC for fast and fun code development.


Software Features
High level BASIC language designed for ease of use.
Lighning fast, based upon CoreOS and highly optimised TCP/IP, FAT and USB software stacks.
Support for over 50 plug in shields, from third party vendors.
Complete self contained development enviroment accessed using FTP or web browser.
Simple upate feature so you have access to the latest revision.
Rich set of math functions:
​Complex Numbers.
Trigonometry, Hyperbolic and logarithmic funtions.
Matrices.
Quaternions.
Network suport (SMTP, HTTP, FTP, DNS plus more).
Mass storage support.

Micromites and Maximites! - Beginning Maximite
 
fifan
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Joined: 09/02/2012
Location: Russian Federation
Posts: 9
Posted: 03:34pm 09 Feb 2012
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I understood. But in our country devices are small widespread on a base Arduino. Very it is sorry me.
 
Olimex
Senior Member

Joined: 02/10/2011
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 226
Posted: 04:17pm 09 Feb 2012
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CG: Correct me if I'm wrong but SolderCore is on prototype stage since about year and never produced and sold in volume

fifan U10 looks really nice, but what all retro computers missed at it's time was GPIOs which you can use to interface to embedded products, this is what I mostly like in MM/DM

Tell me how do you make SPI or I2C or 1-wire device interfacing in U10/ZX80 Spectrum

Can you use your U10 for anything embedded? for instance to measure temperature and switch relays?

 
fifan
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Joined: 09/02/2012
Location: Russian Federation
Posts: 9
Posted: 04:52pm 09 Feb 2012
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  Olimex said  to interface to embedded products

  Olimex said  MM/DM

Excuse me, I did not understand these terms.

  Olimex said  Tell me how do you make SPI or I2C or 1-wire device interfacing in U10/ZX80 Spectrum

U10 and his development of U9/U8 are developing projects. SPI Flash ROM was intended for the recording/reading of ROM, but from small speed application of him as ROM became impossible. As memory of the programs SD is used map or internal memory of FPGA.
The bus of I2C is used in a clock/calendar.

  Olimex said  Can you use your U10 for anything embedded? for instance to measure temperature and switch relays?

All of it maybe, but while nobody of authors of different configurations this did not engage in.Edited by fifan 2012-02-11
 
Olimex
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Joined: 02/10/2011
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Posts: 226
Posted: 05:02pm 09 Feb 2012
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MM/DM = MaxiMite/DuinoMite

this is what I mean - when you emulate toy game computer - you got toy game computer

with MM/DM you can measure temperature, read sensors and most important you can add whatever you missing by yourself, so in practice you can do almost anything
 
CircuitGizmos

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Joined: 08/09/2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1110
Posted: 05:02pm 09 Feb 2012
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  Olimex said   CG: Correct me if I'm wrong but SolderCore is on prototype stage since about year and never produced and sold in volume


I would have no way to know as I'm not SolderCore.

I just pointed out the product to show an Arduino-format color BASIC computer. I didn't do it to bring on the usual competitive comments.Edited by CircuitGizmos 2012-02-11
Micromites and Maximites! - Beginning Maximite
 
fifan
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Joined: 09/02/2012
Location: Russian Federation
Posts: 9
Posted: 05:16pm 09 Feb 2012
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  Olimex said  U10 looks really nice, but what all retro computers missed at it's time was GPIOs which you can use to interface to embedded products, this is what I mostly like in MM/DM

For application of joystick a computer mouse is used. Work with a mouse it is supported by codes of FPGA and programs on Basic or assembler of Z80 microprocessor.
 
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