Home  |  Contents 
Other Stuff
  Forum Index : Other Stuff         Section
Subject Topic: Ecoinnovation Experience Hydro Gen Post ReplyPost New Topic
Page of 2 Next >>
Author
Message << Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
kingull
Regular Member
Regular Member


Joined: 08 April 2010
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 44
Posted: 24 June 2010 at 10:52pm | IP Logged Quote kingull

Hi Guys,

I just received an Ecoinnovation "Powerspout" "GE" version for Grid Tie application.

I was astonished to receive a box of parts instead of a fully built unit which I ordered and paid for. Hidden way down in their PDF it says how to assemble it but no where does it clearly indicate that is how they send the unit.

Nothing included in the package on how to assemble it. I was supposed to know that I had to read their long winded PDF to find assembly details.
The first thing I had to do was remove a heap of iron filings from the magnets in the rotor. Damned aggressive magnets even resisted high pressure air nozzle.

Eco reccomended the SMB1100 GTI unit (Grid tied inverter)
SMA have since advised that warranty is void if connected to the Eco GE device.

On finished assembly, I rotated the Pelton wheel with my finger, Their magnetic clamp came on instantly.
Test results were forwarded to Eco`s Michael Lawley.
He ignored my reference to iron filings and said just turn it on.

I am then advised that these two questions have used up my full one hours technical support. What technical support??????????????

Does anyone know why this clamp wont release unless a lot of torque is applied?
I nearly stalled my 18 volt drill to break through the clamp barrier.
Had to wind it up to full power then it released.
Eco innovation will not answer the question professionally.

The unit also refused to release the magnetic clamp when water was turned on to drive the Pelton Wheel.


Edited by kingull on 24 June 2010 at 11:03pm



Back to Top View kingull's Profile Search for other posts by kingull
 
MacGyver
Guru
Guru
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2009
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1287
Posted: 25 June 2010 at 3:25pm | IP Logged Quote MacGyver

kingull

I did a little poking around on their Web site and found their certificate is expired. I tried to post a "screen shot" of it here, but it's not the right file type and the 4m won't support it.

Anyways, in my book, this is a bit of a flag on the play. It may mean nothing, then again, it may, I dunno. I usually never buy stuff online unless it has come by way of a recommendation from a friend or at least someone I know and respect and if there is any glitch at all, I hold off.

The certificate notice was a result of my punching the "Order" button, by the way. I did it just for kicks.



. . . . . Mac


__________________
Nothing difficult is ever easy!
Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman,
"Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!"
Copeville, Texas
Back to Top View MacGyver's Profile Search for other posts by MacGyver
 
Bryan1
Guru
Guru
Avatar

Joined: 22 February 2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 739
Posted: 25 June 2010 at 7:05pm | IP Logged Quote Bryan1

If you paid for it by credit card get in contact and tell them you didn't get what you paid for and cancel the payment...
Back to Top View Bryan1's Profile Search for other posts by Bryan1
 
kingull
Regular Member
Regular Member


Joined: 08 April 2010
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 44
Posted: 25 June 2010 at 7:23pm | IP Logged Quote kingull

Thanks MacGyver,
Eco was reccomended on another posted article here on "Other Stuff".
It sounded quite good so I went ahead with it.
Their Michael Lawley loves to "shoot you down in flames".
Very aggressive replies to emails.

I have the unit now and a GTI all up $4000-00 AU delivered.
Not much point communicating with them.
I would rather just toss it on the garbage truck.
SMA wont accept their GE unit and Lawley said their tech support just dont know what they are talking about.
Back to Top View kingull's Profile Search for other posts by kingull
 
Bryan1
Guru
Guru
Avatar

Joined: 22 February 2006
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 739
Posted: 25 June 2010 at 7:28pm | IP Logged Quote Bryan1

Kingull where are you located ? I'm sure one of the members on this forum will lend a hand. I'm in the Adelaide Hills and I'm only too happy to offer help. 4K is a heap to spend I'm sure we can get this thing working for you in some way.

Regards Bryan
Back to Top View Bryan1's Profile Search for other posts by Bryan1
 
kingull
Regular Member
Regular Member


Joined: 08 April 2010
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 44
Posted: 25 June 2010 at 8:46pm | IP Logged Quote kingull

Hi Bryan1,

I think it will work but this stupid clamp effect takes a lot of torque to overcome.
They say it is necessary to load dump.
The test I did shows ten volts DC whilst clamped at about 3 RPM where their manual states it should clamp at the 400 Volt DC limit.
They are adamant that nothing is wrong with their unit.
Very unpleasant emails from their Michael Lawley.

I have yet to complete the pipeline so the real pressure test is not yet ready.
My location is Below Mount Nullum adjacent to Mount Warning and ten K S\W of Murwillumbah. Dunbible NSW 2484.

The head is probably above 200 metres static so a head tank will be placed at the static height to match PN12 Blueline. I should get 400 watts continuous year round in current conditions but a hell of a lot more when it rains.
Back to Top View kingull's Profile Search for other posts by kingull
 
kingull
Regular Member
Regular Member


Joined: 08 April 2010
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 44
Posted: 25 June 2010 at 9:15pm | IP Logged Quote kingull

EcoInnovation Powerspout Web site.
http://www.powerspout.com/[/URL]

Back to Top View kingull's Profile Search for other posts by kingull
 
kingull
Regular Member
Regular Member


Joined: 08 April 2010
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 44
Posted: 25 June 2010 at 9:42pm | IP Logged Quote kingull

Incidentally guys, I did not know the Powerspout site existed and did all my initial enquiries through their ecoinnovation site.
I was eventually referred to the Powrspout site.

The Powerspout site has since been amended to add the advanced calculator.

They have since modified the page as I suggested to point out that the Powerspout is shipped as parts. Which included in my case, a lot of iron filings in the rotor magnets.

Edited by kingull on 25 June 2010 at 9:43pm
Back to Top View kingull's Profile Search for other posts by kingull
 
kingull
Regular Member
Regular Member


Joined: 08 April 2010
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 44
Posted: 25 June 2010 at 11:40pm | IP Logged Quote kingull

This is part of an email I sent to Eco recently. They actually almost did what I suggested. Still did not get it quite right.
Hi Michael,

Would suggest you save your customers a lot of time and yourself by absorbing my comments then rethinking how your "Powerspout" web page is set up.

Your page suggests "Feedback" so treat it as so.


The page should begin with:

Powerspouts are supplied dismantled.
We assemble and test the unit then dismantle it.
The parts are then packaged and sent to you.
Your next step is to read the manual details of assembly. PDF Section 3 and 3.1
The package does not include any documents so please read the:
PowerSpoutManual.pdf

Commissioning:
Please Read the Technical manual.
PowerSpoutTechManual.pdf
Refer section 5.2. Electrical checks with covers off.
Back to Top View kingull's Profile Search for other posts by kingull
 
SSW_squall
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 March 2010
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 111
Posted: 26 June 2010 at 10:35pm | IP Logged Quote SSW_squall

Hi kingull,
it seems like things aren't going your way...

The clamp your talking about, is this the circuit that stops the voltage getting too high or some other clamp??

It does very much sound like this is faulty if that is the case!!
Have you tried disconnecting the smart drive from the PCB with the rectifier and voltage clamp to see to if the turbine spins freely??

Maybe you could take a photo of this circuit board and post it?
I might be able to give you some pointers on troubleshooting this to the component level.

regards

AB

__________________
Einstein: Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler
Back to Top View SSW_squall's Profile Search for other posts by SSW_squall Visit SSW_squall's Homepage
 
kingull
Regular Member
Regular Member


Joined: 08 April 2010
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 44
Posted: 27 June 2010 at 10:09am | IP Logged Quote kingull

High AB, Powerspout call it "clamp".
The clamp comes on within half of the first RPM if rotated by my finger and has an audible magnetic sound and the volts read 10 volts DC. Set on AVO low volts DC scale

Reverting to driving it with a drill results in near maximum torque before it breaks the clamp barrier. Avo set on 1000 volt scale then reached 300 VDC.

A temporary test on what water I had available was 12 PSI with 50 mm pipe.
Nozzle at 8mm bore. Would not break clamp barrier.

Powerspout`s Tech manual 5.2.9 online states:

"Increase drill speed and note the mechanical load on the electric drill as the voltage clamp operates at 110 V to 115 V (380 V to 390 V for GE). (Caution. Do not continue
to operate the voltage clamp without water cooling for more than 10 seconds. The
water cooled load may be damaged!)."

When I reported the heavy load and ten volts reading they ignored this and simply said "just turn it on".

Unit is GE model and should clamp at (380 V to 390 V for GE). Not ten volts DC.

The whole email discussion became a fiasco after that.
I ended up blocking any further emails from them.

Summing up: The unit will probably work on the designed head but the "Clamp" is operating at 10 V DC and should only come in above 380 V DC.

The printed circuit board is encapsulated in plastic except for the necessary connections. I would have to dismantle the rotor and stator to photograph it.

My high head line is under construction now. Through heavy scrub and very steep terrain. About 500 metres route length. A head tank will limit some 200 metre head to the "Powerspout" maximum head and the limit of PN12.5 pipe.
I will post results as soon as it is all connected and online.

I thank you AB as you have already offered more assistance than Ecoinnovation.
Back to Top View kingull's Profile Search for other posts by kingull
 
SSW_squall
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 March 2010
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 111
Posted: 28 June 2010 at 1:01am | IP Logged Quote SSW_squall

Hi kingull,
I wish i had the head pressure that you have to play with, it make me look like i'm just paddling down the shallow end...

If i were you i'd pull the PCB out, dismantling the rotor and sator shouldn't be a big deal just a few bolts.
It may just be some thing simple like a faulty connection on one of the phases from the smart drive that is short circuiting.
People often jump to blaming the electronics before checking for a low tech stuff up.

Otherwise I'm guessing that the MOSFET in the voltage clamp is short circuited and yes i did see in the manual that the PCB has been potted with silicon sealant or something.
That is one of my personal pet hates: it's not a bloody peice of military hardware that could compromise national security so ease up on the paranoia...
Although there may be some justification in keeping the water out, there are plastic paint coatings that could do the same thing with much less irritation

regards

AB




__________________
Einstein: Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler
Back to Top View SSW_squall's Profile Search for other posts by SSW_squall Visit SSW_squall's Homepage
 


Page of 2 Next >>
In the news...
 
Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Powered by Web Wiz Forums version 7.8
Copyright ©2001-2004 Web Wiz Guide

This page was generated in 0.1406 seconds.
Privacy Policy     Process times : 0.02, 0, 0, 0.12