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fillm
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Posted: 28 May 2017 at 1:59am | IP Logged Quote fillm

Dave ,

I really can not be bothered and do not have the time for your futile prodding and requests for responses... why..., because my testing does not line up with what you are spinning. You take it as some some kind of grudge match because you think a Black F&P is the most superior PMA for a wind turbine and I "must "Concede Defeat"....

As I have shown , I can very easily replicate any test you say you do in real time graphed output data on a purpose built test bench.

At the present I am quite busy with actual "turbine builds" plural, and have no time for constant replies and "quote" fests to your countless threads that still come down to the 1 fact, that to get the ouput you state then a specific MPPT or Cap Dblr is required. At least you have finally worked out that 10000uF caps or the 1600uf Caps is not how the cap dblr was originally intended to work .

What you always fail to see is that a turbine does not do 350+++ Rpm with no wind and*99.99% of wind charge systems are Turbine - Charge Control - Battery or Dump load...... Simple systems that work

If its just RPM then the 42 as I have been getting 1.5kW+ @ 48V from 42pole 80S Star 14 x 1 which is comparable the 36 Black give or take a few 100 Rpms

Personally I do find it Ironic though that a person that has never built a single wind turbine, lived with it , repaired the failures and constantly tried to improve it is here giving out advice because he is a F&P Washing Machine Repairman.
Now you have free advice thread on "How to Build" " The Ultimate F&P in the World " ..... Can you not even think of an original name or is this just another bait up for a response and constantly tainting the forum with constant implied meaning sour comments.

DaveP68 wrote:
After extensive testing of F&P 36 pole copper stators with black rotor caps, would like to publish data on how to build "The ultimate F&P Dual in the world"!

First cut in 36 pole stator needs to be wired 2x 6p Delta and feed into a capacitor doubler using 12 x 600 uf DC caps to make 300 uf AC value.


Extensive testing with a Drill and a F&P on its Plastic drum into the Brake Resistor on the F&P Control Board and have seen that picture over and over.

Is that all your design advice , Where is the advice on the Nacelle , Blade Hub , Tails , Furling , Yaw and slip rings, Balance or is Engineering not all that important ?


I have got to give it to you , This one is a Gem ....
DaveP68 wrote:


I don't need a wind turbine to publish this information, as know these F&P stators like the back of my hand.

If someone takes interest in what is published here I can guarantee it will work if set up correctly.

The great genius Tesla worked like this and gave away all his ideas. He never held a patient and we now have all this amazing technology thanks to him including our AC power grids.


Mmmmm.... I'm kind of lost for words and I hope industry as a whole does not take this approach .

Who knows you might be the next Nikola Tesla of F&P Wind turbines.

http://www.edisontechcenter.org/tesladebunked.html wrote:
Tesla: dreamer, showman, NYC socialite and vain douchebag. His metaphysical speeches and grand demonstrations captivated the newspapers and wealthy but his actual contributions to engineering are limited. His narcissistic behavior leads him to not credit his assistants or co-workers for helping. He even fails to thank people on his "side" like Ben Lamme and Shallenberger at Westinghouse who took his useless induction motor prototype and redesigned it into something worth talking about (and selling).











Edited by fillm on 30 May 2017 at 6:22am


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flc1
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Posted: 31 May 2017 at 5:59am | IP Logged Quote flc1

Gday Phill,
just have to add my 2 cents worth here,As you know I DO have a wind turbine,
you state that the 42 pole 80s is comparible to a 36pole with a black cap"give or take a few hundred rpm" , well that is no small diffrence,a few hundred rpm is alot over time,
which is what it is all about at the end of the day,,,,,watt hours,
The 36pole has almost no cogging, so it WILL start running before ANY 42 pole,which again is what its all about,because most turbines operate most of the time in low winds.So which is the better choice? ,,,,the 36pole with blackcap.
It has more cut combinations avalible than a 42 ,to suit whatever voltage,and with the mppt tecnology availble now days for batterys and gridtie at a cheap price and easily accessible online, why would you use a 42pole if you can get a 36pole,and get a better output from your turbine?
If we ignore all the sh*t slinging around this subject,all that Dave is saying and has proved, is that the 36pole is better than the 42 pole stator to use for a windturbine,and probably better for hydro aswell, for the simple reasons I have stated here,Even without the fancy electronics the 36 pole copper stator,with black cap will still out perform a 42 when all things are the same, simply because it has less cogging for start up, 42s in my opinion are old school, and will become hard to find soon, but its the opposite for the 36s, they are turning up in dumps etc more now.
I don't touch the 42 poles ,I leave them at the dump

Edited by flc1 on 31 May 2017 at 8:00am
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DaveP68
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Posted: 31 May 2017 at 9:12am | IP Logged Quote DaveP68

Hi everyone here is a quote from Phill taken from his own website "A Bit of History - My trade base is a Diesel and Heavy Earth Moving Equipment Fitter."

Those who read this can now come to their own conclusions about his knowledge

I at least have a back ground in Electronics Engineering & for the past 10 years been working with Smart Drive technology.
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Bryan1
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Posted: 31 May 2017 at 9:23am | IP Logged Quote Bryan1

yep and just to top it off I was introduced to some guy's who were playing around with caps and had a setup where a f&p was driven by a small motor. They did all their setups in parrallel so when I got home I decided to do something different. I put mine back to back in series. A few weeks later Gordon came up for a visit and the rest is history.
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DaveP68
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Posted: 31 May 2017 at 9:44am | IP Logged Quote DaveP68

Hi Bryan1

Getting back onto a constructive discussion. I'm really impressed with how much extra power can be gained from adding a capacitor doubler to an F&P stator.

So all credit to you if you sowed the original seeds of this genius idea.

Have you seen my mathematical formula for calculating capacitor values for your's and Gordon's capacitor doubler circuit?

David
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kitestrings
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Posted: 01 June 2017 at 4:17pm | IP Logged Quote kitestrings

flC1,

Is your turbine fitted with a 36-pole alternator? Just curious if there were any comparative data with one in a turbine, on a tower. ~ks
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oztules
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Posted: 01 June 2017 at 8:58pm | IP Logged Quote oztules

Star delta switching should be very simple with these alternators.
We have the situation where shorting the windings will have no deleterious effect on the wiring due to the inductive reactance... and here it gets interesting.

This shares the same characteristics with car alternators in that respect, so it is not unreasonable to find that the addition of two diode only will allow for automatic star delta switching.. totally seamless and no electronics in sight.

So this can be added to any star connected mill, provided you can access the star point.

The diodes will go from star point to the pos and neg rails... like in this pic from my playing with alternators story. http://www.anotherpower.com/board/index.php/topic,492.0.html




Quite a few of the high power alternators use this now, it relies on the emf of the star combination falling below the delta combination. This will occur naturally, and normally you will see current limiting there, but now with the two diodes added, we will increase the current as the rpm increases until the new delta current limit is reached...... fiendishly simple, and i don;t have a unit to test it on, but if it works for car alts, it will certainly work for these long salient poled devices.


............oztules


Edited by oztules on 01 June 2017 at 9:01pm


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DaveP68
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Posted: 02 June 2017 at 4:51am | IP Logged Quote DaveP68

Hi oztules

That is a simple solution which I'm now keen to try out.

I'm heading away for a long weekend, but on my return will try this out on a 36 pole copper stator with black cap and let you know the results.

Will even try it with a capacitor doubler to get an even greater power output operating range. Lower cut in voltage at start up then higher current output at high RPM level.

Good work on your part for taking the time to post this to this topic.

Cheers

David
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oztules
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Posted: 02 June 2017 at 7:50am | IP Logged Quote oztules

I will be very interested in the results David. It should work, as when the current limit of star hits, increasing the rpm will still try to stimulate higher EMF in the coils, and when this gets high enough, it will revert to delta.

Car alternators have the same current limiting qualities as the F&P... which is a good thing else we would shred our belts every time we started the car, as there would be no limit when we revved it up past cut in... ie if we were running 50 amps @ 2000rpm, it would be horrendous at 7000rpm if it did not have enough synchronous impedance to limit the current too the design point.... belts would shred, or shafts would bend.

look forward to it anyway.


...........oztules

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Posted: 02 June 2017 at 8:14am | IP Logged Quote Gizmo

DaveP68 wrote:
Hi everyone here is a quote from Phill taken from his own website "A Bit of History - My trade base is a Diesel and Heavy Earth Moving Equipment Fitter."

Those who read this can now come to their own conclusions about his knowledge

I at least have a back ground in Electronics Engineering & for the past 10 years been working with Smart Drive technology.


That stepped over the line Dave. Dont do it again.

To everyone who is contributing to these F&P pissing contests. Get over it and be nice to each other, please.

Glenn.

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oztules
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Posted: 02 June 2017 at 8:31am | IP Logged Quote oztules

For those with axial flux units, the lack of iron in the system will make it very hard for the synchronous impedance to stop the current rising.... to well past destructive temperatures.... this would not be useful in that design....


There is an african wind power unit close to here.... I may get the owner to give this a try..... but 90% of the time is is dumping anyway... which may be problematic.


..........oztules




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DaveP68
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Posted: 02 June 2017 at 8:45am | IP Logged Quote DaveP68

Yes I did in this case. But please note Phill did too with him making reference to Tesla's narcissistic behavior in the quote below. I take exception to a comparison like that as the only link with Tesla I was trying to make was related to him giving information away free.

All I asked of Phill before he stepped over the mark himself, was to give me the courtesy of a reply. He had gone completely silent, even after asking him to back up his facts when I had asked him questions. He's the only one here that does it to me.

fillm wrote:


I have got to give it to you , This one is a Gem ....
DaveP68 wrote:


I don't need a wind turbine to publish this information, as know these F&P stators like the back of my hand.

If someone takes interest in what is published here I can guarantee it will work if set up correctly.

The great genius Tesla worked like this and gave away all his ideas. He never held a patient and we now have all this amazing technology thanks to him including our AC power grids.


Mmmmm.... I'm kind of lost for words and I hope industry as a whole does not take this approach .

Who knows you might be the next Nikola Tesla of F&P Wind turbines.

http://www.edisontechcenter.org/tesladebunked.html wrote:
Tesla: dreamer, showman, NYC socialite and vain douchebag. His metaphysical speeches and grand demonstrations captivated the newspapers and wealthy but his actual contributions to engineering are limited. His narcissistic behavior leads him to not credit his assistants or co-workers for helping. He even fails to thank people on his "side" like Ben Lamme and Shallenberger at Westinghouse who took his useless induction motor prototype and redesigned it into something worth talking about (and selling).







Lets leave it their for both Phill and I.

I still have lots to contribute to this forum. But have little tolerance to any more critical replies from the likes of Phill thanks.

Edited by DaveP68 on 02 June 2017 at 9:02am
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