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joebog1
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Posted: 04 December 2017 at 12:25pm | IP Logged Quote joebog1

Windowz 3.1 actually worked !! and quite well.
As did win 98
As did win 2K
THEN it all went to sh!t.
First was Moron Edition. ( ME) a 100% crashing games platform, and the beginning of "Office" upgrades, also the beginning of registration for software ( after all he was eating stale bread and water)

I learned Unix a long long time ago, so am somewhat spoiled.
I think MicroBlocks has stuck out his bottom lip and totally refused to read and learn anything to do with Linux.
I hope I havent upset your 1952 Vauxhall Velox in saying that.

I still find it interesting that every government, and every military force, in the world ( that I can access) uses *NIX boxes.

AS far as drivers for Linux goes, I have NEVER had a problem!!! EXCEPT with Canon devices, since it was basically taken over by Micro Dollar. Canon dont release firmware to open source companies/developers, I think in a last ditch effort to reduce the stale bread and water that "THAT" person eats.

Sorry mods, but I couldnt resist.

With best wishes to all, and a big grin
Joe



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Grogster
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Posted: 04 December 2017 at 1:59pm | IP Logged Quote Grogster

Totally agree with you re 3.1(and 3.11), 98 and 2K.
I still have nightmares about ME problems, but luckily ME has basically vanished from the planet now.

I have a 1962 Vauxhall Velox - beautiful old car to drive. Handles like an ocean liner. Of all the cars in the world, what made you pick that one out of your hat?

It was indeed true that Linux suffered in the driver department years ago, but this is almost a non-issue with any modern distro that I have played with. From Puppy to Ubuntu, they all pick up on any hardware you have in the machine just fine. I have not played with printers and scanners much, and they are the ones that might be held up the most in Linux, as the printer manufacturer often simply won't release Linux drivers for their printers, leaving the Linux gurus to write custom drivers which takes time and can suffer from buggy behaviour I expect.

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MicroBlocks
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Posted: 04 December 2017 at 2:42pm | IP Logged Quote MicroBlocks

Well at the moment i had to make a choice it was Linux sucked, and windows worked.
Rewriting every single piece of software is not cost effective, so you stay with what works. Migrating huge amounts of software from DOS (written in Borlands Turbo C) to windows was trivial. (As in copy it).
he last few years i kept looking at the 'This is the year of the Linux Desktop' and every year it still sucked. It got better but not good enough and i don't care as i have no need to switch.

:) My car in those days was a Volkswagen Beetle Cabrio. My uncle owned a Volkswagen Camper company that did custom build interiors. When i worked there as an apprentice carpenter my side business was selling cars to tourist who wanted to travel Europe. Enabled me to save enough to buy that car, loved it! At home i played with my TRS-80 Model I and in the evening i went to school to learn to be a programmer. Even there they used windows/DOS as Linux was not a thing at all.
I did not went to university as Computer Science was not taught.

What amazes me with the Linux crowd is the disdain for Microsoft. They pratically opened the whole PC market. Currently businesses are 99% Microsoft and a few Apple here and there. Why should a professional software writer target the 0.1% Linux Desktops? Maybe if you do it for fun and want to help out your friend, but it does not put bread on the table.

On the server side i could care less nowadays. Sure i still have my Hyper-V windows hosts and clients but they are slowly being migrated to other hosts so that i don't have to maintain them. I write all of my software in C# and that runs both on Windows and Linux backends. Nowadays you just buy 'compute' and 'storage' and get it over with. Windows is on my desktop as i love using Visual Studio, and for hobby i do some microcontroller and pcb stuff and those programs ONLY work on windows. It might have something to do with them targeting the 95% of desktops being Windows.

I just checked my records for the longest uptime of a system i managed.
It was a Novell 3.11 server with an uptime of more then 8 years from 1993-2001!
It could have been even longer but they changed to a Windows Server.
Now that was a reliable system.



Edited by MicroBlocks on 04 December 2017 at 2:46pm


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Boppa
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Posted: 04 December 2017 at 4:33pm | IP Logged Quote Boppa

I have worked with every version of windows since 2.0 (when I get home I'll take a photo of the floppy it came on, I found it the other day looking for my old dos and gw basic manuals lol- came on a single 5 1/4" floppy)

I loved 95c- rock solid, as was 98se, NT and then XPsp3 (in fact this laptop is still on it) win CE is not too bad, but tiny tends to work better I found
win8 `nearly' made it to the good list, but it was cut off before it had time to work out the bugs
every other version should have been drowned at birth...

Canon has no issues with ubuntu (looks at canon printer/scanner)- just plugged it in and it worked, didnt even need to d/l a driver (unlike win10- that needed a driver, had to try 3 before I found one that actually worked with the scanner)

I dont dislike windows persay, just every other version I hate with a vengeance, and Microsofts business practices of using their customers as beta testers

Be interesting to see how many access this forum with what OS, but the days off 99% microsoft are long gone, my website shows about 60% win in total, 15% apple, and the rest is android/linux (my stats doesnt tell the difference between them for some reason, same with the windows, stats just shows windows, not the breed of win)
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CaptainBoing
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Posted: 04 December 2017 at 6:15pm | IP Logged Quote CaptainBoing

MicroBlocks wrote:

a Novell 3.11 server with an uptime of more then 8 years from 1993-2001!


I concur - years ago I was called out to an office of a local (then) financial company as their mail had stopped working... They didn't "know anything about any server" etc, so after a rummage around in the basement I found a silent machine completely clogged with the usual grey fluff... cleaned it all up like new, powered up and everything was fine again... Novell x.x with an up-time (before) of 7yrs, 2 months... only shut down because of the heat.

Probably still going. Bombproof.

Edited by CaptainBoing on 04 December 2017 at 6:16pm
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joebog1
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Posted: 04 December 2017 at 8:01pm | IP Logged Quote joebog1

To Grogster,, I once owned a 1957 Velox, and your wrong about handling!!! MORE like a whole fleet of queen Mary's with drunk pilots in heavy seas with one prop shaft out.

To MicroBlocks, I am glad you took my comments with salt!! They were not meant to be offensive.

I started with Unix many years ago, it was simple and highly reliable ( yes we DID have crashes) And to reload was as simple as starting the tape back at the beginning and running "Install", and only took twenty minutes. We ( the engineers) had Wyse terminals, for "desktops", some were orange and some were green phosphor. Apart from the display colour they ALL had an ">" and a flashing _ . Small rodents didnt exist, and I still find that I open a terminal if I need "do any fixing", clicking 40 times on a non responding dingle ball does no good at all.
There have been comments about Linux, and Unix "crashing". That is in fact very very hard to do!! I think what you all say is that the desktop has closed and doesnt respond, BUT I will nearly bet that the kernal is still cruising along without a worry in the world.

Point and click is fine if you play cards, or shoot lil monsters, but pretty useless for computing anything worthwhile, in fact MOST of what I look at is numbers - Im still an electrical engineer who designs power system type products ( mostly transformers) so point and click is not there at all.

When DOS was released we ( the engineers) were given version 2.7. It worked, was clumsy, needed 4 times the input to do anything than did Unix. To install it was a half days work, and all that was loaded was a very morose terminal screen without any functions apart from ms.sys, io.sys and command.com. So you still couldnt do anything. Software was supplied on 8" Shugart single sided 180K "diskettes" ( also known as black dinner plates) but were soon upgraded to 360K double sided "disks".
The cost of a Shugart drive was thousands of dollars I seem to remember, required frequent head cleaning ( the oxide layer was continually falling off ) needed amps of current, AND we still couldnt do anything apart from type as in "terminal".

Maybe I am biased

JOe
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MicroBlocks
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Posted: 05 December 2017 at 12:54pm | IP Logged Quote MicroBlocks

Boppa wrote:

Be interesting to see how many access this forum with what OS, but the days off 99% microsoft are long gone, my website shows about 60% win in total, 15% apple, and the rest is android/linux (my stats doesnt tell the difference between them for some reason, same with the windows, stats just shows windows, not the breed of win)


B2B is still mainly Windows. On my sites it is 100%. There is some change in which browser is used. Until recently Chrome had the lead but it is now Edge with almost 80%.
In business environments the IT likes to be able to manage people work PC's.

B2C is going from desktop to other devices. I don't have any B2C so i happily do not care. :)


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chronic
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Posted: 05 December 2017 at 1:48pm | IP Logged Quote chronic

another windows vs unix thread ? !!! ?
I can't resist..
Any system at version 10 - having used users as guinea pigs for decades - should be near perfect. Without more b!@#$%^&t.
Early unixes were way too fragile for business operations, they are good now though.
A good operating system can, and should, run continuously at its specified task without requiring upgrades, reboots or crashing. Ancient DEC VAXes would keep going despite running out of disk space...just getting slower and slower...until some disk space was cleared, when the system would simply speed up to normal ops. (well I say "speed" with some reservation )

The worst system I worked on was a Unix RISC box. The application software was utter crap. The original having started as accessing a flat file database, it had been reworked through two versions to use a relational data server - still as a flat data server - underneath a noddy user language. So to join tables, a noddy script had to read in the data from a table, for each record read another table, check for condition met, get the next record, etc, all in interpreted script and in memory with table locks..using massive memory off course. Each user login would use a new demon process which would often persist using cpu if they they did not logout properly..the system operator had to keep on routinely keep chopping the zombie processes for it to keep running..with many user online. Running a large query was a memory hazard, but altering or tuning the rdbms setup was not allowed by the application vendor of course..every so often it would run out of memory and crash - definitely not gracefully - and the database would have to be bounced until it cleaned up. I gather it got worse and worse until it was chopped.

Originally the same application had to be installed at another site, greenfield. In this case it was allegedly set up to use RDB v5. But Compaq had just taken over DEC, v5 was not supported anymore, so we were told to install with v6. After three attempts over some months...remembering this is "quality system accredited" with ISO blah blah independent quality check blah..it was evident that it would not run, nor install, with rdb v6. So I had to inform the client(s) - ie a dozen new users sitting there ready to go - expecting after three attempts, to be running a training course in their new software, that the course was delayed (again) and they would have to spend an additional 5 figure amount to use another RDBMS. Nice !!!

I should have realised. After two weeks as newbie, I asked how I could join two tables. The response was "Why do you want to do that ?".

So now I have white hair ..whats left of it

(add) My record for uptime on a windows server is over a year - with twenty or so users online. That was a compaq with NT 4.

Edited by chronic on 05 December 2017 at 1:51pm
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