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JohnS
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Posted: 16 October 2017 at 7:43am | IP Logged Quote JohnS

Almost the last thing I'd want is to put someone off Linux... but... where someone has particular Windows-based software (in this case CAD) it can be unrealistic to move completely across to Linux.

Yes, try it with WINE but it may not be OK (and apparently isn't).

And yes try a VM. For a big Windows program you'll need a big VM (file on disk) and lots of RAM or performance can be dire. It's not going to be completely seamless, either. (But may work acceptably overall.)

Of course if an alternative program exists without having to resort to such things then great.

John

Edited by JohnS on 16 October 2017 at 7:44am



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MicroBlocks
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Posted: 16 October 2017 at 7:51am | IP Logged Quote MicroBlocks

Herry wrote:
twofingers wrote:
Maybe this is connected with Grogsters issue.


Articulate but totally intolerable for all the users who may not be computer savvy and who just want to *use* their computers for vital tasks. And it is not the only time. This has been going on for months on and off. Take a look at the thread on Whirlpool. And in Linux, I used Mint very happily. Only problem in my case is that I have written a number of utilities in Visual Basic 6 and that will not run on Linux. The workaround, with W7 running in a virtual machine is too messy as some of the utilities transmit files from my wp system. Haven't got the time to nut it out at the mo!


It only affects users which use WSUS/SCCM managed. Most of the pro users and consumers use the regular update and are not effected.
Administrators should always update their systems by deploying updates to a test platform, and if that works and is reliable roll it out to production. If they did not do that then they did not do their job very well.

For me it is simple, i like to have a potential customer base that is significant. Linux and Apple are still a tiny slice of the pie and for most development totally irrelevant because the numbers are not there. The huge amount of different Linux distribution also not help.

I am also just more lucky with using Windows i guess as it never let me down in many many years. I still find it the most productive way to use a computer. It does function less in specific areas, but i not really use those.


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Grogster
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Posted: 16 October 2017 at 8:29am | IP Logged Quote Grogster

I think I was SOMEWHAT the instrument of my own problems there because I was using an old ISO to install W10. The latest download from Microsoft for W10 installed much better and with way less issues, but it still wanted to spend half the night doing updates.

This despite the fact that it was current as of that day from Microsoft, and during install it downloaded a whole heap of extra updates then proudly announced: "OK You're all set!" - but apparently I was not.....

Yuk. I just don't like W10. I suppose nothing is going to change that easily any time soon.

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BrianP
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Posted: 16 October 2017 at 8:55am | IP Logged Quote BrianP

My commiserations to Grogs & all other Win10 would-be users. In my current role as local "computer guru" (not my words) I need to remain as familiar as possible with the Win10 real world. I'm still using XP on my main home machine (thinks it's a PosReady machine which still gets updates until 2019), but this machine is over 10 years old & the motherboard is starting to resist wanting to initialise at boot - can take several tries before the initial beep happens. It's quite stable once started, but I'm on borrowed time.

I have a new you-beaut I7 machine with 32 gigs memory sitting in the wings ready to go (been there now for more than 12 months) with (shock horror) Win10 - just haven't got around to doing the migration of all my "stuff" - looks like i may have to soon...

Anyway, to the point - IMHO the current flavour of Win10 is definitely the most stable of all the Win10 versions. Most update errors would seem to stem from aborted or corrupted downloads of the huge version update - you think nothing is happening & reboot it but it was busy in the background. I had one machine that took a full day (24+ hours) to finish the update - just left it alone & it finally did it. I suspect MS paces major downloads to suit Internet traffic conditions & machine workload.

Quick tip for the "can't stop the Windows update service" issue - open the services.msc console, find the Windows update service & set it to disabled. Reboot, & it certainly won't be running. Then you can delete the update files cached in software distribution, which often magically fixes an update issue.

If you have Win10 Pro set it to the "business branch" for updates, not the default "current branch". (I think MS uses the general population as a test bed before letting it loose for business). You can delay updates for up to a month after they are first released & pick a time of your choosing when you are feeling brave. Or, if you leave the updates service disabled - no updates! (not recommended for security reasons).

You do need to turn all the privacy settings off, including all the apps Microsoft thinks should be running in the background by default.

All said, I'm afraid I rather like it - it's the Win8 kernel, & pretty quick. Once you take the time to tell it who's boss, that is. My experience is that it's more stable & driver friendly than Win7, e.g. USB serial devices. I have less issues interfacing to the outside world than with Win7 e.g. networking. YMMV of course.

Sorry to take up so much forum space about the hated MS - might aid someone maybe.

B
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srnet
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Posted: 16 October 2017 at 4:08pm | IP Logged Quote srnet

MicroBlocks wrote:
Administrators should always update their systems by deploying updates to a test platform, and if that works and is reliable roll it out to production. If they did not do that then they did not do their job very well.


I agree entirely, any sensible organisation has to test upgrades and patches in this way in order to safeguard their buisness.

So the obvious question is how do these 'errors' get out of Microsoft in the first place ?

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circuit
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Posted: 16 October 2017 at 10:18pm | IP Logged Quote circuit

BrianP wrote:
I'm still using XP on my main home machine (thinks it's a PosReady machine which still gets updates until 2019), but this machine is over 10 years old & the motherboard is starting to resist wanting to initialise at boot - can take several tries before the initial beep happens. It's quite stable once started, but I'm on borrowed time.
B


A common reason for this behaviour is the CMOS back-up battery on the motherboard. I have re-invigorated quite a number of very old computers simply by renewing the motherboard battery. You may not be quite on such borrowed time as you imagine. Have you replaced the original battery?

Edited by circuit on 16 October 2017 at 10:19pm
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twofingers
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Posted: 16 October 2017 at 11:21pm | IP Logged Quote twofingers

BrianP wrote:
... but this machine is over 10 years old & the motherboard is starting to resist wanting to initialise at boot - can take several tries before the initial beep happens. It's quite stable once started, but I'm on borrowed time.
B

Ten years are allmost nothing for a MB. I load my emails daily a PC with a 300MHz AMD K6 and 256MB plus Windows 98 without any issues. He must be nearly 20 years old. There is hence still hope!

A much younger MB (~5 years old?) made boot problems ... more and more. I replaced a condensator (100, near the Sata-connectors) and all works stabile since then.
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Herry
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Posted: 17 October 2017 at 12:00am | IP Logged Quote Herry

Quote:
A common reason for this behaviour is the CMOS back-up battery on the motherboard. I have re-invigorated quite a number of very old computers simply by renewing the motherboard battery. You may not be quite on such borrowed time as you imagine. Have you replaced the original battery?


Yes, many an unscrupulous or ignorant retailer has pronounced a computer defunct, usually claiming 'power surge' when the CMOS battery is all it is!

Edited by Herry on 17 October 2017 at 12:00am


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Grogster
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Posted: 17 October 2017 at 12:19am | IP Logged Quote Grogster

BrianP wrote:
Once you take the time to tell it who's boss, that is.


Ahhh, but therein lies the problem. IMHO you should not have to take up hours and hours of your time, to settle down a clean-install of Windoze as you seem to have to do with W10 installs currently.

You even mention needing to leave a W10 machine updating for 24 hours. What the HELL is it doing that it needs that much time! That to me these days on modern hardware, is totally nuts.

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Herry
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Posted: 17 October 2017 at 12:26am | IP Logged Quote Herry

I wholeheartedly agree, Grogster! The o/s is marketed as a consumer product but it is frequently not fit for purpose in my opinion. I'd willingly pay more for something that works (after all an o/s is very complex and if it was faultless it would be too inexpensive).

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Boppa
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Posted: 17 October 2017 at 3:51am | IP Logged Quote Boppa

I may have mentioned before for people using 3g or 4g phone dongles (where I was living out west for example its that or 56k modem, as many phone lines arent even adsl capable) it is wise to watch yourself around win10 as it literally has 10's of gigs of downloads, and many people got caught (luckily most had their data costs for win10 updates canceled by telstra if they complained long enough and hard enough) if you had prepaid with auto topup connected to your bank account/credit card or postpaid with same, win10 was responsible for data bills in the hundreds of dollars for unlucky/unaware consumers (telstra data being $10 per gig on the most common plans on their wireless dongles)

Unfortunately in many country areas 3g/4g telstra is their only option for any form of broadband connection
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Posted: 17 October 2017 at 6:34am | IP Logged Quote CaptainBoing

circuit wrote:

A common reason for this behaviour is the CMOS back-up battery on the motherboard. I have re-invigorated quite a number of very old computers simply by renewing the motherboard battery. You may not be quite on such borrowed time as you imagine. Have you replaced the original battery?


+1

Tip: on old(er) motherboards, if you can, replace this coin-cell (usually a CR2032 or similar) with the power *on* otherwise you can lose your BIOS settings and a simple 30 second job turns into a mission (uses non-conductive tools and take any rings off your fingers. Older boards used battery-backed RAM while flash was still considered avant garde I still have half a dozen strips of these cells from the days when I used to sort PCs... really ought to have a sort out, but you know what it's like
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