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Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577
Posted: 09:27am 16 Dec 2020
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I know I am strange but I don't mind getting power Bills. Always reminds me of what a worthwhile investment my playing around with solar has been.
Meter was read last week and Bill arrived today. I normally work out what it is going to be before hand but only did a quick mental calc this time and got it wrong. Being we weren't using the AC very much and being 1000Kwh hours in credit a month after the last read, I knew it should be I nice low one this time round.
Our Bill for the last 3 Months all up including connection Charges was $148. In my messed up mental arithmetic I added in an extra 100 somewhere so was even more of a pleasant surprise to see what the cost was. Always takes a bit to find with all the stuff they put on the Bill. we are always in credit so not as easy as just looking at the big number although it is nice to see the words " No payment Required" on a bill.
This is the lowest power bill I can remember, ever. Not just here but at the old place as well which I was pretty sure had a faulty meter in our favour. Often times the thing just didn't move when I knew there was power being used but hey, If I got them out to check and I was wrong I'd have to pay for the call so I left it up to them to maintain their equipment! :0)
Our power for the last quarter worked out to a reasonable $1.62 a Day. I think the last one was $2.12 or something like that over winter and I was happy enough at that rate. Our total bill for the last 12 Months was $722 or $1.97 a Day. Seems very reasonable for the comfort and Convenience we get.
This is an all electric house with no other input and we have our own sewage system as well which chews a bit of power 24/7. My neighbour tells me he put his on a timer and only runs it through the day as mine is on a solar back feed circuit, I have no need to do that. Nice to be able to cover all ones power needs pretty much.
Pretty confident once I get everything up on the roof I'll be able to meet next winters demand which has been the goal.
I was only watching some Vids the other night about off grid and tiny houses and people going on about no utility bills that they were struggling with in Suburbia. Our water bills are about $130 a Quarter, power is now an average of around $180, Rates are the same as most rural land if not cheaper, I don't think you have to live in the boonies and be off grid to live affordably and comfortable and my kitchen is literally bigger ( by twice in some cases I saw! ) than these peoples tiny, claustrophobic homes. I have a small Holiday house and there is not enough space in that for a couple of weeks at a time let alone to live in and it too is bigger than most of these small Homes. Each to their own, small is not for me.
In any case, I have said for some years, Luxury's are cheap, it's the essentials that take all your money than make the luxury's tough to afford. Luckily there are ways of having your cake and being able to eat most of it.
All about the setup and investment in the right place's to keep ones costs down and still be able to live very comfortably.
noneyabussiness Guru Joined: 31/07/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 506
Posted: 09:21pm 16 Dec 2020
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Totally agree, the basics seem to be ever climbing in price...
Our last 3 monthly bills have been under 15 bucks... admittedly I only have the grid as a " backup " charger, the rest runs on solar, I have batteries etc.
Always hearing stories from friends that " oh my bill was 1300 for this quarter " etc, yet they happily pay it, disgusting.. I would rather pay for the equipment etc to go off grid ( more upfront) and own it, than pay for some ceo's new Bentley for his collection..
A mate just installed a commercial 10kw system, 8kw inverter etc and reckons he'll never go back, having 3-5 hundred dollar bills each month, it's halved them, still not great but HEAPS better ... until they scrap the feed in tariffs... he already looking into reasonably priced battery systems, doesn't like DIY much, cause he always at work he needs it automated and covered by warranty.I think it works !!
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 09:54pm 16 Dec 2020
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Its just a sign of growing old mate !
When I was a kid, I remember the oldies saying how outrageous prices have become "I can remember when you could buy two of those for a penny".Cheers, Tony.
noneyabussiness Guru Joined: 31/07/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 506
Posted: 11:30pm 16 Dec 2020
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Just sucks that wages don't usually follow cost of living, or just under... it wouldn't be so bad if you still earned the same for 5 years if costs didn't climb in that same time... i understand its a " always been " , but just sucks when at the same time these multi-national corporations post record profits at the same time during those " 5 years " ... if that makes sense..I think it works !!
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577
Posted: 12:51am 17 Dec 2020
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We would have been paying that at LEAST here which was why I went into the solar quick and hard when we got here. Brother in law round the corner has $2K power bills as a matter of Course. Another mate has similar and I have spoken to him about solar and he seems dead against it like it's a joke and has said I'll pay the bill rather than have anything to do with solar. I have not asked why. Peculiar because although he's loaded and more than generous, he's always the first one to save a buck when he can. The only thing I can put it down to is appearances because he is absoloutley pedantic on how things look. he has a 25X 12M shed that faces the right way and is clear of Shading not to mention a large stables and multiple other buildings so He could probably put up 50 Kw without thinking about it.
Is that just the power? My Connection charges are .94 Cents a day. They amounted to $86 for the quarter yet the power we used was only $62. Where my dad is the Robbing bastards hit everyone up for $1.51 a day and there is only one supplier in his area so everyone is stuffed. his supply charges are nearly as much as my all up daily costs.
I don't get that. Maybe because I'm cheap and trying to SAVE money. That system would have cost him $8-10K. He's saving around $1000 a year. 8-10 year ROI's are way too long for me. Of course when the FIT ends it could blow out to 12-15 years. If he borrowed the money that's more cost and it blows out a bit further. 3-500 bills are nothing now and I rather pay that sort of money every quarter than find or borrow say $9k.
A lot of people are the same with ( commercial) batteries. The rhetoric was they saved you money although that seems to have been debunked even on the greenwashed forums and websites now but people still install them to save on their bills. I have to think it's ignorance as the people that tend to do this from what I have seen are always the DIY inept type and probably swallow up what they want to hear in marketing from the companies flogging the things.
That said, The highly regarded Electrician that Did the wiring for my 3 Phase solar outlet and Kitchen last year was telling me about the Tesla Battery he just put in. The guy was Highly intelligent and 9obviously very hands on and I couldn't for the life of me why he fell for putting on one of those money wasters. Not a Greenie so I couldn't say a thing as he is a nice guy, certainly looked after me but sure had me wondering why he did it. He said to save on power bills but at the same time was telling me the thing cost him $17 K all up. Yikes!
Money he'll never recoup.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577
Posted: 01:23am 17 Dec 2020
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I was raised by my Grandparents. There are so many things I look at and remember them commenting on as being so expensive you wouldn't be able to afford it soon and now I look at the price of those same things and think they would just not believe it.
One of those things I think of every single time is Lamb Shanks. I remember going to the Butcher with Grandad and buying some as they were a family favourite long before they became Trendy like they are now. The Butcher told Grandad the price and he did a double take and questioned it. The Butcher said they were .50C ea. I could see the look of shock on grandads face as he paid and said nothing. The conversation between my grandmother and him went on at times for weeks and they told loads of people what a ridiculous price that was and how they were going to have to be only for special occasions in the future.
I think the ones I got the other day were near $5.00 ea and they were about half the size of the ones we used to get. Even making lambs smaller but charging more for them these days! :0)
Another one was a plastic Rake. Gran and I went all over town looking for the best price because she though $2 was over the top. We found one cheaper ( .20C? ) but that damn rake was treated like it cost $1000. When I started working years later I bought her a new one and was chastised for wasting my money. The old one still had some of the teeth in it which made it useable! Sort of.
I bought a couple the other week. Exact same design and I commented to the Mrs I believed they were even the same brand. They were under $5 ea which Given the 45+ years since gran and I went all over the town that Day, is obviously far cheaper than they were then.
I still have our metal Willow watering can. The sprinkler rose disappeared years ago but the can itself is way older than I am. It' sprung a small leak on one of the soldered seams the other day so I'll have to give it a hit with the blow torch and sweat it closed again. I noticed in Bunnings last Night the cheap crappy plastic garbage watering cans are $12. I think that is a ripoff for what they are but I'll bet a lot of the cost is in packaging and transport being relatively Bulky things. Still too Much IMHO.
I also remember gran getting a $10 Gas bill which she thought was outrageous. I got read the riot act about having to cut back on things and not waste money etc. I pointed out that I NEVER used the stove which was our only gas appliance and if there was cutbacks to be made it would be her having to not boil the kettle so many times a day to make cups of tea. One can Imagine the silence that brought on.
I was working so took the bill and paid it and still got told about wasting my money and having to save for the future. Just after gran Passed away I got an $18 Gas bill. I laughed and was glad she never saw that or I'd have still lost her from the shock.
I also remember and still have a Letter she Received that due to the amount of interest she had received on the money in her bank account ( about $14 from memory) the Gubbermint was reducing her pension by .02C a FORTNIGHT because she was over the limit on her savings. ( Sub $20K)
Couldn't believe that they actually went to the time and trouble of generating and posting a letter to say they were going to Reduce her pension by .1C a WEEK! They were still Screwing pensioners over 30+ Years back!
Suffice to say she made sure that never happened again. When she died, I found cash in every Cupboard, under every corner of carpet, in pots and pans at the back of the cupboard and every place imaginable. The linen press had about $3000 in it evenly distributed though every Towel, Pillowcase, set of sheets and everything else in there. And about 200 Cakes of soap with it. I didn't have to buy soap for years.
I found more cash when I sold and moved out of the place about 10 years later. Much of it was worth more than face value because it was all the old denominations and had increased in collector value more than bank interest would have given. Still have a Good amount of it put away just for sentimental value.
I can't remember what our power bills were then but I seem to remember a figure of $56 for one which would have been steep back then as well.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577
Posted: 01:35am 17 Dec 2020
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I always get the urge to strangle some mongeral talking about " Reducing power prices" When I have just seen the annual profits for the power industry in this country have hit $2 Billion dollars.
Yeah, sure they are wanting to make power cheaper. Makes perfect sense that a corporate entity would want to reduce it's profits which would be less bonuses to directors and dividends to share holders.
What makes me even more inclined to Violence and want to throw up at the same time is they can say this with straight face insulting peoples intelligence but most fall for it and believe it!
AGGGGHHH!
Then again, 99% of people are ignorant enough to believe the price of things is directly dependent on cost of production.
Spose if they think commercial Solar batteries save them money then you can sell them any BS at all.
Recent world events prove there is no limit to peoples stupidity and Ignorance.
noneyabussiness Guru Joined: 31/07/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 506
Posted: 03:39am 17 Dec 2020
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That is per month, and its with the " rebate " which lowers it somewhat, so yes 90 odd bucks a quarter just in " fees " so actual power usage is probably 20-30 bucks for the quarter... so every 3 months, its about 110-120 bucks, less about 60-70 in " rebates ( 1 arm of grubberment paying another). It will go back up when the crockavirus bonuses ends..hope that makes sense...
And my mate that got the solar was getting 3-5 hundred dollar bills each month ( so 900-1500 per quarter), at about 8 grand for the system, he will have it " paid for " in about 2 and a half to 3 years, aka, if we work on 1200 per quarter, it works out at 12000 for 2 and a half years, the solar has at least halved it, so 6000 " saved " for same period. for as long as it continues to produce what its supposed to. Up here we have on average somewhere in the region of 300 odd sunny days, so it makes sense... but his situation is not for everyone.I think it works !!
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577
Posted: 05:11am 18 Dec 2020
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Missed the Monthly rather than quarterly time frame. That all makes a lot more sense.
I had to go and have injections in my eye this morning because I have had a haemorrhage and completely lost focus in my right eye so that's my excuse! Won't be the last ones either I'm told.
I used to coach pistol shooters. One of the first things I looked at with new shooters that didn't improve was for right side, left eye Dominance which was a big problem and one I don't want to have.
Life is such fun!
I am keen to talk to my sister in law at Christmas to see what their last bill was. They had solar installed but haven't had the analogue meter changed over and have received several Credits. They had a small bill last time round being winter but they should be in front this quarter and I'd like to know if they had an actual read and a credit payment as well.
I wonder if this does turn on any flashing lights at the power co or they are too inept to pick it up? I could make some decent money if I could get paid for my over generation but I'm a very long way from thinking I'd be lucky enough to get away with that.
I see no reason with minimal effort I couldn't rack up 3000 Kwh a Quarter credit 3 quarters a year if I could do it and earn a decent pocket money passive income.
Oh to dream!
Revlac Guru Joined: 31/12/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 961
Posted: 10:17am 18 Dec 2020
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A friend of mine, a bit north of here was only allowed a 3kw system due to the "transformer is too small" BS, they have since put many other users on that same transformer! He was getting a good FIT and a credit on his bill as I understand it, however when he wanted to get some money out of them instead of a credit on the bill, they made it very difficult to do, I hope things have changed, think he is with Ergon. Also he is on one of those new meters.Cheers Aaron Off The Grid
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577
Posted: 09:57pm 18 Dec 2020
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I very much HOPE if I have to get a smartarse meter and go legit, Semi as it will be anyway, To get approval for a 10 KW system, or as large as I can, (15 on 3 Phase?) and then get a small system installed to save cost and get on the books as it were. I have spoken to an installer and he said this is not Kosher but done all the time. Seems most people want to do it so they can add to their system later without jumping through more hoops or getting knocked back as the amount of companies and the size of the systems they allow seems to be decreasing all the time.
I would then, having approval for my 10 Kw system be able to use the existing systems I have with it to again hopefully, if it still exists, get as much FIT as Possible. This idea seems to be looking more and more unlikely so keeping my old analogue meter long as possible seems far and away the best outcome.
There is now even significan't talk and some planning to actualy charge people for using the grid with solar another " access Charge". These power companies really are the most greedy, low life corporates out there.
I have heard many cases of the Transformer BS. One of many reasons I have no respect or guilt for ripping power companies off blind if need be. They do it to everyone else so why should they be treated any different to the way they act themselves? I learned many years ago the idea of not lowering onself to another's level is just a way to pacify yourself for not getting bent over and royally screwed. I also learned Fight fire with fire is the best and only way to not be used and abused by those that don't play fairly.
I have a friend in exactly the same Boat with FIT. He was getting Credits for over 12 Months which he was OK with till a year had passed to see how he went. 2 Of his sons Moved out so his usage dropped ( significantly) and the credit got greater.
He wanted to be paid out and they told him they didn't do that, would come off his next bill. He said that will be in credit anyway so what you are saying will mean I never get anything back and you just keep more and more of MY Money. They argued that was the way it was done and did everything to get out of paying him. I don't know whom the supplier was.
He ended up going to the Ombudsman and also had to jump though a lot of hoops to get his circa $1200. I don't know the ongoing situation if they pay it per bill or annually now or he still has to fight for it.
The power Cos seem to get away with things that would not be allowed as trade practices with other companies especially if you were just a small Business.
Spose that's the benefit of being able to pull the strings of and having friends ( bought and paid for as they may be) in Politics.
noneyabussiness Guru Joined: 31/07/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 506
Posted: 10:47pm 18 Dec 2020
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My brothers next door neighbor was asking him about his off grid solar, the neighbor has a commercial 10kw system, yet he barely feeds anything in. Turns out the power to his house sits on or above the " 270 odd voltage limit" and his inverter regularly limits the output... he has repeatedly spoken with the power company as it mostly spends its time above the limit, they basically said that he needs to " waste " the power, so he has the greenest grass around from his bore. He did get a elecy out early days and old matey turned the voltage limit up, but ergon just came and turned it back down with a threat of fines if touched again. He had a go at em about them breaking the law, the response was " see you in court / prove it". He just gave up....I think it works !!
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577
Posted: 03:30am 19 Dec 2020
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There are endless and ongoing reports on solar forums about high line Voltage tripping out Inverters and I have had it here as well. It's clear the power co's want that to happen for that exact reason, it limits their payout on solar feed back.
Seems from what I have read, some power cos will monitor the line voltage for a week or 2 and then make adjustments and some just make endless excuses and failed promises. They only ever seem to correct their mistakes with pressure and under sufferance however.
I have read numerous reports where people have been told they can't lower the taps on the transformers because the voltage will sag too much in the evening and the transformers can't handle it. I Find that to be complete Bull but if it is true, the equipment is simply outdated and needs replacing with gear than has better regulation which I KNOW exists. Again with power cos, all about spend nothing and pull out as much profit as possible while maintaining a barely creditable service.
I keep an unhealthy frequent eye on my inverters as I work around the place through the day and used to have monitors set up tracking line voltage. From memory the lowest I ever saw it was about 234V and that was at 3 am or sometime when there isn't a lot of sun around here to blame solar inverters for Pushing voltage up as is the standard power Co excuse. Also nothing to see it at 245 here at any time of the night.
Through the day, with all my own inverters turned off, it's nothing to see the line voltage 250 -255+ here which is above the limit. I had the inverters shut off for a couple of months recently but I was running some other meters and they were regularly reporting that. First I thought they might have been doing Typical " Chinese" readings but a check with my Multimeters confirmed they were within half a volt rather than several of more volts out. I have my inverters turned up to threshold at 265V. No problems so far except they still sometimes trip out even when I have loads on.
I have my hot water on a Voltage monitoring relay so it Kicks in when the Voltage is High so it acts to pull it down and keeps the inverters on that phase at least on song. I also try to do the washing during the middle of the day and often use the Dryer as we make so much power it's a matter of use it or shut down the system to avoid going too far in credit.
I have also found in the past that switching off some of my arrays (yes, I have them switched) can actually make me more power for the day because the inverter isn't spending 2 Seconds at full power and the next 90 resetting again before the 2 sec online before another trip out.
They are saying they want people to go to batteries but I bet if they get their wish they will then start whining and finding ways to screw people over for that too.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577
Posted: 12:37pm 20 Dec 2020
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Longest day of the year tomorrow. Was keen to see what I could produce from my solar. Unfortunately there is a prediction of 95% Chance of 25 to 40mm of rain.
That means here, that there is a pretty good chance it's going to be overcast at least most of the day. Oh, and we might get 2-3mm of rain.... if we are really lucky. I have seen so many times 100% Chance of storms and deluges and we did not get a single drop.
Unless they are recommending you prepare an Ark, I don't really take a rain prediction with much faith. That said, moved here and had around 20% average annual rainfall for 3 years then had 2 Floods in 6 Months. Things sure do dry out fast though.
Rain or not tomorrow, Not much good for making max solar generation anyway. :0)
I'll have to go check the meters as to where we are at. Was about 100Kwh up on each phase a week after the last read but since then it's been cloudy to completely overcast nearly every day. By the same token, haven't had to run the AC either. Did do a fair bit of welding the other day making up a set of 3.2M width gates but I doubt that made much difference even if I was at it all day.
noneyabussiness Guru Joined: 31/07/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 506
Posted: 10:17pm 20 Dec 2020
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Lol, yeah I reckon its a universal rule that the weather man is right only some of the time.. my rule is when its falling from the sky, it'll rain...I think it works !!
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577
Posted: 08:25am 21 Dec 2020
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Well my rain prediction was wrong. We got .6MM . Spose I was still a lot closer than the weather forecasters.
learned something interesting about solstice which gelled with an observation/ position I have long had that summer really went to the end of Marc rather than Feb.
Seems summer in most parts of the world is said to start at solstice which is late in December not Dec 1. This would add up with my thoughts that summer really lasted longer than the prescribed term
Anyway, haven't see the sun at all today so not going to know the best case scenario for solar generation for at least another week according to the weather people.
I did Check my meters this morning and seems I'm about 160Kwh up on one phase and 110 on the other. The neighbour also said there had been someone from the electricity company been around going house to house and came knocking on my door. Didn't come to him or another neighbour he knows has a smart meter so he thinks hat's what it may be about, installing new smartarse meters.
Looks like my party might be coming to an end. Another disappointment to look forward to in the new year.
Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me.
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