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Forum Index : Solar : Heating With PV  Panels

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Davo99
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Joined: 03/06/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 960
Posted: 11:56pm 13 Jun 2021
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  rogerdw said  

but it seems to me it is building up a bit like a capacitor charging  ...  so as long as you run it from time to time to extract the heat that is there  ...  you get a pretty good result.


I think that's a pretty accurate Analogy. The panels will also have significant mass so  should be capable of storing a bit of heat as well.

  Quote  Certainly much better than pumping in air that ends up very close to room temperature  ...  feels like it does more cooling than heating.


Once the sun goes off my panel, the fan continues to run quite well only it's then pumping in air that is now BELOW that room temp.  By 4PM here it's freaking Cold.  It's also pitch black by 5:30 Pm. Never really noticed things like that as much till we came out here and I started playing with solar. In Summer it can be 7:30 and I'm still making many Kw of power and the inverters don't drop out till after 8 Pm.

I think winter solstice is near. Thank god.
Yes, Next Monday in fact. This week will be the shortest solar generation then it starts getting better. I'm sure happy for that.
Did make 46Kwh yesterday though which was great.  Be lucky to do 1/4 of that today and if the forecast holds up, the rest of the week as well.

  Quote  

From 10:15 - 15:45 it stayed above 30 degrees and reached 39.2 at the peak. That's 5 and a half hours with the fan on its highest speed. Got almost uncomfortably warm inside  ...  but I'll take that.


That's Great! We had out run of beautiful Days a Bit early I think. Now when we could really use the sun it's overcast and Murky and forecast to be for the next week as well.

Another 3 Months and I'll be bitching about the heat here and looking for Cooling Ideas again.  I think this Verandah will make a big Difference. We will then only have the short northern wall exposed and that's 3/4 Covered with the hedge I have let grow up longer for the shade so it's  Improving. Might see about some small awnings over the doors where the sun belts in. That would probably help a lot too.

Maybe I should put a compressor and AC system on this cogen setup I'm building. Had that Idea for a LONG time now but I just keep running out of Round Tuits I need for this and so many other hair brained ideas.

Might be easier to work something out and useful for Both of us with out solar heating to put that to work for absorption cooling. Still trying to get my head round that completely.

  Quote  Can't wait to hear your results with the next lot of tests. Good luck.


The Board will certainly make things more practical and I'll go out again shortly for the Customary weekend trip to bunnys ( to get the things we went there for yesterday but forgot to get although still as usual managed to spend over $100 on impulse buys) and have a look where I saw the Boards yesterday which was only a few doors down.  Also cruise past the scrap yard and see what people have dumped on the foot path and see what I can do as a community minded Citizen to help clean up by bringing some home.
 
rogerdw
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Joined: 22/10/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 369
Posted: 12:18pm 14 Jun 2021
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  Davo99 said  
I think winter solstice is near. Thank god.
Yes, Next Monday in fact. This week will be the shortest solar generation then it starts getting better. I'm sure happy for that.


I didn't realise it was that close but I'm pleased to hear it will soon be upward again.


  Quote  Another 3 Months and I'll be bitching about the heat here and looking for Cooling Ideas again.


Haha, yep  ...  same here I imagine.


  Quote  and I'll go out again shortly for the Customary weekend trip to bunnys ( to get the things we went there for yesterday but forgot to get although still as usual managed to spend over $100 on impulse buys)


Sounds familiar. Our Bunnings is only a couple k's away but I aways come home and then realise there was something major I forgot to look for.


  Quote  Also cruise past the scrap yard and see what people have dumped on the foot path and see what I can do as a community minded Citizen to help clean up by bringing some home.


I haven't got into that which is probably just as well. I still seem to fill the place up with heaps of rubbish anyway and have no idea where it all comes from.

One thing about my weekend cleanup is that I can now get at some of the stuff blocking the works and will now take some photos and stick it on marketplace.

I think my 'hanging on to stuff' is a legacy of growing up on a farm where you didn't throw anything away  ...  something I have to change. My wife grew up in a military family where they often moved every three months, so never accumulated too much crap coz it was just too hard to pack and shift it all the time. There has to be a happy medium somewhere.
Cheers,  Roger
 
Davo99
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Joined: 03/06/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 960
Posted: 06:51am 15 Jun 2021
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Made a more durable temporary setup with the panel heater today.
Attached a sheet of the scrap ply I picked up on the weekend.





Ply was about 200mm longer than the panel so rather than cut it off, I used that to get the bottom of the panel up out the weeds.
I haven't got to making the legs yet, other things to do and I was itching to fit this up.





Back of the panel with the voltage converter mounted. I have left the wires long in case I need some extra length when I attach the second panel. I think that may be better with a bigger blower so I'll look into what might be most suitable.

I set this up in reverse. The blower is pulling the air from the bottom of the panel and the air is entering from the top in about a 10-12mm gap I left.  I secured the panel with some metal screws though the ply into the frame of the ply.




Eyeballed this downpipe spigot at bunnys yesterday and Miracle of Miracles, it's a perfect fit for the blower inlet. That's my good luck used up for the next 6 months! I use it as a flange to mount the blower and it's a press fit although I will probably tape it or put a self tapper in it to secure it if we get any sun and the panel produces some actual heat. I  just cut a hole in the ply before I attached it to the panel and screwed  the spigot over the top.

As this is a standard down pipe fitting, I should he able to use them to couple multiple panels up together and combine the air output.  I think to go to the window I ill need some proper AC soft ducting which is double layered and insulated in between so there is not too much heat loss.




The blower pushes on neat as can be.
Having the blower on the low end of the panel also means the duct is laying on the ground and the weight of it is not pulling on the blower or the panel. I have always liked to have air ( and water) flow against the natural convection. I read something years ago as to the benefits of this I can't even remember now but I do recall it made sense and that's the way I like to do it. Why I didn't before I don't know but could have just turned it upside down but anyway.



Top of the panel where the air inlet is. Why bother drilling holes when you can just have the ply  sitting back off the edge a bit? I think I gaot the gat pretty rights. Using a bit of grass I could see the air is moving  quite quickly and evenly across the full width of the panel and the air output at the end of the duct is the same if it's attached to the panel or not.

The ply was a bit warped despite my efforts to screw it from one end out while putting pressure on it to make it flat as possible but the good old duct tape came in handy for doing almost what it is actually made for in sealing something for ducting air.

With the next one I'll put something in to generate some air tumbling to see how much effect that has. It would be good to have some sort of adhesive that transferred some heat from the panel backing as well.

Weather is still predicted to be overcast for the next week here so Might be a while before I get to see how this setup goes and compare the output temps.
 
Warpspeed
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Joined: 09/08/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 3939
Posted: 06:59am 15 Jun 2021
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That is going to be really interesting !!
Cheers,  Tony.
 
Davo99
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Joined: 03/06/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 960
Posted: 07:53am 15 Jun 2021
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  rogerdw said  
Sounds familiar. Our Bunnings is only a couple k's away but I aways come home and then realise there was something major I forgot to look for.


We always come home with a bunch of stuff we didn't go there for! Spent over $100 yesterday on some lemon trees and pots for the back Verandah.  They do look good though and are nice touch. Made sure to get the docket emailed so if they Die we can go back and get replacements. Lot of people ( including us until recently) don't know that if you get a plant from Bunnys and it keels over in 12 months they will replace it under " Warranty". That is one hell of a dangerous thing with my Mrs!

I have got over the forgetting so much now because I write notes on my tablet and take that with me so I have a shopping list. Have a trade card but seems everything I get I'm lucky to get $5 off on the whole lot.
The thing that really screws me over and drives me insane is their pathetic stock control. It does not matter what I want, how common or left of field, whenever I go there, there will be something ( and an amazing amount of times EVERYTHING) I want  is not in stock. Not that they don't carry it, they just don't have it when I want it.

Got to admit, it's starting to do me favours. They are NOT the cheapest despite their advertising hype and they have forced me to find other, better ( especially in the service department) cheaper, and more interesting places.  It's going to cost them more than one lost sale that's for sure. These places are a little further away but well worth the couple of Km extra travel.  


  Quote   I still seem to fill the place up with heaps of rubbish anyway and have no idea where it all comes from.


I have a mental illness with collecting stuff and that is not a joke or exaggeration. I cannot help myself but I AM getting much better. I will say it's not straight out rubbish like Old magazines and Milk bottle caps like a neighbour filled her house with but rather just metal, wood and machinery.
We have a council cleaup tomorrow and I went round the yard with the mrs yesterday and today and the main stuff we put out was household things.  Yes, I did make a small pile of stuff to go to the scrappy but even the Mrs was happy with that. It's easy to get rid of, costs nothing and no problem.

For me the hard things are those that are not metal or timber. Timber I can burn.  When we left the old place I must have burnt 500Kg plus of old timber. Beams that had rotted away, more chipboard and shelving than you could imagine and offcuts I don't know where I got.  Put them in a 44 with a blower  attached and had a firestorm raging while I did other things. Time I got rid of it all, the back yard and the neighbours looked like a snow storm had gone through with all the ash that had been blown out.

Fortunately the majority by far of my collections are Timber or metal.  I do need to get into the shed badly and get rid of a lot of stuff we brought here and shouldn't have.  Put that Off because I am lazy, hold on to too much and a lot of it is going to result in tears and put me in a bad place. Has to be done though.  Just waiting for a run of good weather as I will have to leave some out side over night as I remove, sort, throw away and re organise.  Got a lot of shelving and benches to put in.  Tossing up whether to panel the walls as well to make it nice and me less inclined to make a mess.

One thing I have overcome is people giving/ leaving me stuff.  Meaning well and me having a weakness for things I collected waaay too much and then thought WTF did I pick that up for... then remembering I didn't.

  Quote  One thing about my weekend cleanup is that I can now get at some of the stuff blocking the works and will now take some photos and stick it on marketplace.


That's always good to do. Most of my stuff has been unsaleable junk but I never cease to be amazed at what people will try to sell and put ads up for things they want $2 for. I'm far too lazy to be bothered putting an ad up for that. I have taken pics of things I didn't want to throw out and then tossed them. I am overly sentimental and this was suggested to me as a way of having my memories without the clutter.  Trouble is I tend to look at the pics later and regret tossing them even though there is absolutely  no justifiable use for them.

I was just very brave. Mrs wanted to throw out a lounge we must have had over 25 years. Yeah, it looked that old and was well worn out. I have looked at getting it recovered but the prices they want are totally unjustifiable. So many memories with it and I still have great regrets over getting rid of it.  I put on my big boy pants and didn't even start on the coffee the mrs made before saying you have to get rid of this or her to come help. I opened the doors, dragged it out, ( barely) got the tractor and lifted it up and took it out and put it beside the pile..... And noticed some other vulture has dumped a load of crap on the Pile mrs thinks they may not take. If they don't, the council will hear about it and come and get it.  Bad enough having to deal with my own crap, not dealing with someone elses.  Didn't take pics of the lounge, best I forget it and there are plenty of pics with it in there.
Christ I'm a wimp!


  Quote  I think my 'hanging on to stuff' is a legacy of growing up on a farm where you didn't throw anything away  ...


I think my proclivity is a function of being raised by my grandparents where there was barely a day went by when you weren't told about how hard things were to get during the war and what they had then even years later, was so much better quality and when it did break, was repaired.  I remember a place in town that repaired Radios, TV's washing machines and Fridges.  The place was always flat out despite having a reputation of being a rip off as we say now but no one ever thought about throwing anything out till the repair mob said they -Couldn't- fix it.
Many people in our street whom were also of my grandparents generation still had B/W TV's 10+ years after colour sets came in because the old set was still going and they were waiting for them to stop working before they would replace them. You didn't throw anything out JUST to upgrade it! What a waste of money that would be!

My grand parents saw value in everything and my Grandfather could turn crap into very useful and practical things around the house. I remember he fixed some old clocks that had accumulated in a box. He got them all working and had a pile of parts left over he could never figure out where they went back in. It was the old joke in reality.  He started looking at fixing other peoples clocks and very rarely failed and the ones he gave back everyone said they never kept better time.  Always had those left over bits though.

The other thing is my sentimentality but getting over that. Not that much left now.
Things wear out and have to be chucked. They are not repairable not useful for much else. Pre planned Crap. There are 2 Chairs that came with that lounge I just put out and they will be around for a long time. Even if they cost 4X what I could buy another pair for to recover, I will pay it. I like them, always have and they will stay.

The other thing with my collecting is I HATE having to go buy something to do a project. I want everything I need at hand and build things around what I can put my hands straight on.   I have only just got my head around going to the steel joint and actually BUYING the metal I want to do things. I had the arse out my pants a long time and couldn't afford luxuries like that but now I can, old habits still die hard... Like they did with my grandparents.

Out here there are far fewer factories for me to scrounge from within reasonable distance than at the other place that had industrial area's in every direction within about 5-10 Km.  Being the genius I am I finally have worked out cheaper to go buy the stuff than waste endless fuel driving round trying to find something to make do.  

I still pick up anything that may be useful along the way for next time.
 
Davo99
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Joined: 03/06/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 960
Posted: 08:04am 15 Jun 2021
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  Warpspeed said  That is going to be really interesting !!


I am going to also try and automate this a bit with a thermostat.
If I set it to 20 or 25C, that should be enough although now I have done a reverse flow setup, that may complicate things a bit.

Maybe I can put it in the panel near the fan and set it high to allow for the direct heating it will get. Other thing might be to put in a PWM or resistance so it just Turns a bit to pull air though and then the thermo ramps it up when it hits temp.

Another thought I had was to try and research if it's possible to take the cells off the glass on a panel. If I could remove the backing and the cells so I just had clear glass, that would be perfect to put over the top to harness the wasted heat that is convected out from the front.
 
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