 Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me. |
Forum Index : Solar : Aldi 6.6kW panels, 5.5kW inverter, 10kWh battery system
| Author | Message | ||||
| lizby Guru  Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3412 |
Aaron, "Revlac" suggested that I copy this post from my "AI investigations" thread in the Microcontrollers section so that folks here could analyze and comment on the Aldi offering. To me, it looks quite powerful at one-third to one-fifth the price of what a similar system would cost in the U.S. or Canada (with the full effect of tariffs and rollback of subsidies not yet being felt). ============================ I read a recent PV Magazine article about the German grocery chain Aldi providing, in Australia, a 6.6kW solar, 5.5kW inverter, 10kWh (or 20kWh) battery system installed for $6,999 ($4,610 USD, 3,965 Euro). I spent a fun hour this morning asking Gemini various questions about this system. Estimated factory cost of goods in US$: 10 kWh Battery System: ~$800; 5.5 kW Hybrid Inverter: ~$550; 6.6 kW Solar Panels: $594; Balance-of-System (BOS): $660; Total hardware: $2,604 USD. For the average Australian single family residence, what is the anticipated payback time: 2.5 to 4 years. For a household with an EV but no solar (residential charging to be added): 2.8 years. For a household about to buy an EV, trading in a gasoline car: 1.67 years --$2,000 (from not buying gasoline) + $2,200 (from not buying electricity for the home) = $4,200 AUD per year If Aldi or similar system installed on all Australian single family residences, what percentage of total electricity generation would that represent? 26%-28% of final demand. How much gasoline would be saved with 100% Aldi system + 100% EV for single family residences, and what percentage of AU fossil fuel use would that be, and counting displaced fossil electricity generation, what total percentage would be displaced? 67.5 TWh equivalent gasoline: 4.2% of AU energy supply; 42.75 TWh Fossil Fuel Electricity Displaced: 2.6%; Total: 6.8% of AU energy supply. Note that the Aldi price is underwritten to a significant degree by government rebates which Aldi would collect: Solar Panel Rebate (SRES): ~ $2,145 AUD and Battery Rebate: ~ $2,500 AUD, for Total Combined Rebates: ~ $4,645 AUD. There would be an additional $2,500 AUD for the 20kWh version. This total price of $11,650 AUD or $14,150 (20kWh) is still far below the price of a comparable system in the U.S. or Canada--probably one-third or one-quarter of the price. If I had a suitable roof (which I don't), I would happily pay an unsubsidized $9,500 USD for a similar system. Payback time would be a lot longer because of $.125/kWh U.S. price for electricity in Florida (compared to $.40 AUD -> $.265 USD). The Aldi system includes blackout protection, so it will continue to supply the residence with power if the main electricity grid goes down. I'd pay a good bit for that feature alone. Maximum subsidies for 20kWh system for all 7.5 million AU single family residences would be around $54 billion AUD. Annual saving in oil and gasoline imports if all of those residences had an EV with residential charging would be ~$50 billion. PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed |
||||
Revlac Guru Joined: 31/12/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1173 |
Looking at the data sheets provided the battery is 51v and 100Ah fairly standard stuff as a wall mount design, has built in contactor and no idea what BMS it uses, a note down the bottom of the Data sheet "Note: Monitoring achieved through compatible inverter" That would put me off buying as battery and expecting to use it with any other type of inverter not on the list. The battery looks like.... Solis ESS 51.2V 100Ah 5Kwh European Warehouse Wall Mounted Lithium Battery 10240wh Wall Mounted Solar Battery 51.2v 100ah Photovolta Energy Storage Lithium Battery So there may well be a lot of these just rebadged or with similar internal's Overall the battery is nothing special in my opinion, one could buy similar and better products that can be used without com's, and on any inverter of choice.  The Inverter is pretty standard as well, these types of Hybrid inverters have been around for years, many of the Voltronics rebrands have been out for years as well as many copies. I see this system as too small of an offering these days especially for those who may be getting an EV in future the inverter is a bit on the small side as well, there is little value in selling power back to the grid, depending on what deal you might get and location. I'm offgrid so might be a bit biased to grid tied systems, I think some of us could buy batteries and an inverter separately and panels and build a system that's better value and more suited to the user requirements. Quite often we end up using more power than first planed for, and the Aldi system and others like it would not really have an upgrade path, when you need it. I have seen a couple of hand truck builds.  Cheers Aaron Off The Grid |
||||
| lizby Guru Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3412 |
It's certainly too small for off-grid, but if your goal is not grid defection, but load defection, it may do well at a good price. Since getting the last 20% of complete self-generation may cost as much as the first 80%, the most cost-effective method may be to go for a slightly undersized system. The inverter is not undersized for everyday use, since if the grid is up, any load above 5.5kW will just be passed through from the grid. If the grid is down you have an "emergency loads" breakout which can be supplied from the 10kWh or 20kWh battery. Per perplexity: "Australians typically drive 33–43 km per day, using about 5–8 kWh to cover that distance in an average electric car". I would say that a system with more than 6.6kW of panels would be better for many. I'd say the Aldi system is aimed at people who are never going to build their own system, and want to spend as little time as possible thinking about it. If financed at 8%, after paying about the equivalent of their existing utility bill for 4 years, most of their electricity should be free for the next 26+ years. Again per perplexity: What is the average daily kWh usage for AU single family homes? Australia-wide average: 17–19 kWh/day (3-person household) PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed |
||||
KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
This is NO reflection on lizby and the results from data that he has been presented with. However IMHO the data being returned is flawed in so many ways - Sorry - I'm not going to debate this "very complex" overall situation with anyone, I'm sure a vocal lot here will disagree with me, whatever, build your systems and report back. The Base ALDI system seems fine for overnight backup of a Fridge Freezer, a few lights and boiling a Jug etc, and will reduce the energy bill, I've also started to see other systems advertised around this ball park figure. The figures depend on exactly where you live in AU, and on other local variables including ceiling insulation levels "if any" usually "minimal to none" in many older homes, wall insulation (minimal to none in older homes) and house cladding, roof and floor construction materials, and floor insulation in raised timber style home, the number of trees around the House and surrounding yards, new Homes being built on tiny blocks with the gutters almost touching and many older homes in built-up areas on 400sqm or smaller blocks etc. Factor in a Smart meter upgrade and possible fuse box upgrades if that has not already been carried out. That's required as the Corporations want to control your grid feed, batteries and power usage in an attempt to stop the grid from failing. For 2025 there are new dwelling sustainability (green) regulations being rolled out, voluntary of course  and if not carried out will result in higher Insurance costs for those who can still afford that, or no (withheld) Insurance in many cases, and substantial devaluation of the House price should you wish to sell it. They put a price of around $48,000 to upgrade the average Home to the highest Green level, with step reductions for the two lower levels of compliance, I mean upgrade. A solar system like the ALDI could also fit in with part of that plan. The plan requires the "removal" of any Gas or Wood burning appliance etc. Various levels of merit will be applied for wall, roof and floor insulation levels (ratings), window insulation, draft reduction, outside shutters, convention heating/cooling modifications to the structure (costly), shading, and the reduction of concrete around the home and on and on and on and on. Forget any Feed-In benefits as you will be paying the Energy Corp to do that, best to use any excess solar for charging, or drop feed In, which will likely not be an option with the government corporations Solar subsidy as it requires access and control over your? Solar system I/O and power usage. IMHO To run a typical small House "completely" off grid, would require a minimum of around 16kW of Solar, at least 20kW of LiFePO4, and an Inverter that could easily supply around 12kW continuous for around 1 hour without undue heating and surge to 16kW or more depending on the type and age of Air conditioners, Fridge, Stove, Washing machine, Dryer, Pumps etc, add an electric Hot water system if you need all the available roof space to fit sufficient off grid Solar. The above is for a GEO location with very good solar. Why 16kW minimum? seriously, the Sun doesn't always shine. With overcast rainy periods, Solar panels don't care which way they are facing, N, S, E, W or flat, under these conditions the Panel output is the same, with enough Panels you can still charge Batteries by being a little conservative with general power usage over this extended bad weather period. This requires the correct balance of Batteries charge rates for the average daily power usage at a given location if you want to maximize Battery Life, so a quality Battery Management System and Battery are required, in the Past, many installs have not been up to that standard. Someone who lives in the Southern states of AU might like to indicate how much solar they need to run completely off grid for a week of bad weather while still maintain heating, cooking and hot water, and without the use of GAS, Wood or fuel Generation. NONE of the above factors in an EV. For the average household struggling with the rising cost of living and job insecurities, the thought of purchasing a new EV anytime in the near future or charging it from Home is not happening. Not that long ago there was a sustained Power outrage in a southern state, many Home owners found the batteries did not work correctly or only lasted for a few hours at best, of course this was hardly reported anywhere. There is so much money being wasted by owners and taxpayer subsidies for systems that are simply not fit for the intended purpose they claim, they reduce household usage cost but fail to deliver any meaningful insulation against a Power outage, one of the main reasons for the average consumer installing a Battery. Hopefully this will change. BTW My definition of "Running off grid" means using Solar, Batteries and Inverter AC to power the property and equipment and workshop in exactly the same way as if it was connected to Mains AC, Day and Night, Sunshine, Cloud and Rain and only cutting back when an unusual extended period of extremely Bad weather is happening. . Edited 2025-09-17 16:11 by KeepIS NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
||||
| Revlac Guru Joined: 31/12/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1173 |
I'm late to the party but anyway, KeepIS has touched on a few points, (actually many) that are not advertised or factored in when looking at getting a solar system, very well said.  @lizby I did look at getting a GRID Tie system many years ago, Think it was Conergy and it was very expensive back then for a 1.5Kw system, other unexpected costs were a complete rewire and upgrade of the switch box and the meter box, there were several other things added on as well, so we decided it was a no go. Not long after we experimented with a small batter inverter and solar to see how it went and what we could run, soon after (2014) we a bought some 250w panels and a 4Kw inverter and run house off grid during the day while it was sunny enough to run using 8 4WD starting batteries we had all ready, we could run with a 4Kw inverter but had to be careful of what else was running at the same time, a single person could live with this and be fugal on usage. When you need to run multiple items at the same time and 2 people or a family, its not long before several high power appliances are on at the same time and then the 4kw inverter is not going to cut it, I did get some 5kw inverter's (of the same ilk) and run separate batteries and panels for each, this allowed us to run air con and multiple other things without an overload but still realise its limited. I have upgraded some more and have since run a lot more gear and not yet at the stage that I can power anything at anytime, the battery storage is fine but still running multiple low powered inverters. Now if someone can afford a new EV they are unlikely to buy an Aldi system with its current specs, there are other systems with more features, but still not powerful enough for most people Not going to put a link to this one, sigenergy.com/au the wep page terrible with my internet connection. And Jaycar had one as well https://www.jaycar.com.au/home-battery-solution? I was looking at the Aldi system for a friend, he has grid at the moment but Power company wont read the meter anymore and they estimate the usage, and over charge (so he says) they have since upgraded every other house with a smart meter but wont do his because of some weed spray or wasp nest some strange excuse, More to the point, they keep estimating usage and without a new smart meter they don't even check anymore. He wants to go offgrid and get rid of it all, but sadly he wont do anything about it, even though he has seen how our system works he's just not interested in learning the DIY approach, a few other friends are the same, I'm not going to do it all for them, I've done plenty of other things for them in the past.....perhaps thats part of the problem. I had thought that if they want a system similar to the Aldi one get it installed then later get rid of the grid connection, just its not that simple and the system would have to be big enough to begin with or end up having the task of upgrading most of it at extra expense. Travel to the shops is a little over 64Km round trip once every 2 weeks, while I would love to have an EV, charge at home and do that shopping trip it just isn't practical for the expense at this point in time, I hope it will be later but we will see. Edit: Our longest power outage was almost a month in 2011, only had the generator as backup then, tank water needed a pump to run for essentials and the toilet water was from a different tank and its own pump. We fixed that by making all of it gravity feet no pumps or power required to run except for filing the tank once every 3 weeks, the toilet water supply is probably 3 years orso, we did this before we went off grid, and kept it this way ever since  I could add more but that's enough for now. Edited 2025-09-17 19:47 by Revlac Cheers Aaron Off The Grid |
||||
Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1547 |
Well with my off grid system 1.9Kw of solar going into a 100/50 victron tracker that runs flatout on a sunny day pumping in 50 amps has our 24 volt 600AH house battery fully charged by lunch time. Even on cloudy days we get enough sun for the batteries to reach float by early afternoon. Over winter this year only had to run the genset a few times mainly as the girls did washing at 7am and left the heat settling flatout where the current draw dragged down the voltage. Seemed they have learned as they were told if I'm at work don't expect me to come home. By the time I do get to use those fire starting new fad batteries a better battery solution will be main stream  |
||||
| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
The fire starting batteries are not LiFePO4. EV have been using old Li Battery Tec which are unstable and prone to single cell thermal runaway. Only in the last few years or so has the uptake of LiFePO4 in EV increased with newer solid Tec batteries starting to appear. All the scooter and appliance fires are older Li batteries, usually charged incorrectly or knowingly designed incorrectly with poor or missing BMS Tec and assembled poorly to save a few dam cents. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
||||
| KeepIS Guru Joined: 13/10/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1904 |
FYI: When I'm running a lot of big Workshop machinery with large house loads and charging the batteries, I will often see over 220A from the Solar regulators. The Solar regulators combined output rating is 480A, so they are just loafing along and this was done on purpose. It keeps the solar input considerably de-rated to bypass problems of solar flaring [large over voltage spikes] keeping it well below the potential to cause any fault in the regulators, this is a bigger problem then many realize as solar arrays get larger. It affords a lot of Redundancy, and by using a maximum of two series panel strings with two parallel strings per Solar regulator, the effect of shading or panel failure is dramatically reduced, the OC output is only around 90VDC, normally it sits at around 84VDC even with low background idle power usage, it allows smaller less expensive switch gear and the whole DC system is much safer. I have over 670AH @ 48V of LiFePO4 batteries, due to the rated usable capacity of Lead Acid and AGM compared to LiFePO4, this is apparently equivalent to over 800AH of Lead Acid or AGM batteries. I don't know what batteries Bryan1 is using and these may well be different. BTW I did not come up with this rated usable capacity information, it's from battery manufacture data and real world testing carried out by many over the years, if you disagree, please contact the battery manufacturing sites and inform them that this is incorrect. My "loaded" LiFePO4 terminal voltage with no solar drops by only 1.3vdc [53.3v to 52v] between 99% SOC and 25% SOC, I've been at 25% SOC once with a smaller battery Bank when testing, this system is usually still running at 62% to 75% SOC before Sunrise in Winter. I can have resistive AC loads running at over 13kW during the evening and early mornings before Sunrise, workshop equipment startup loads can see the Inverters Peak DC Input surge over 35kW. Our overall power usage when we were on Mains AC was similar to other 3 person households in this area, there are only two of us but we do have a big woodworking workshop. NANO Inverter: Full download - Only Hex Ver 8.1Ks |
||||
 Print this page |
 |
The Back Shed's forum code is written, and hosted, in Australia. | © JAQ Software 2025 |
