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Forum Index : Other Stuff : Covid-19 Treatment (No joke)

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lizby
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Posted: 03:49am 17 Nov 2020
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  Warpspeed said  There are basically three separate but interconnected groups trying to undermine democracy worldwide, and achieve World domination.
The communists, the zionists, and the secret societies. The deep state, and organized crime, are all a part of this too.


Sorry, but this is insane. Regarding "the zionists, and the secret societies", it's classic insanity which ended up being extraordinarily murderous in the first half of the twentieth century.

Regarding the "communists", there's certainly a profound Chinese threat, but very few in the west look to China for a solution to problems, or to anything approaching communism. The Chinese only became a threat by becoming capitalist in their economic practice. What happened to the communist threat of the Soviet Union? What happened to the communist threat of the Warsaw Pact?

In the U.S., the right has shouted "communist" at every attempt to make the country more nearly "of the people, by the people, for the people": Social Security is communist; Medicare is communist; civil rights activism is communist; minimum wage is communist; workplace health and safety is communist; Obamacare is communist; environmentalism is communist. It's a never-ending scare.

  Warpspeed said  Now that the US election has been held, Covid will quickly disappear, no need for it anymore.  By Christmas it will be completely gone and never mentioned again.


Let's check back in after Christmas. So far, every single prediction that it will disappear or recede has been wrong. This kind of statement would be sad if it weren't so dangerous.

I still remember your statement from May 21, 2019: "Very off topic, but US military have been mobilizing for quite a few weeks now, but I very strongly suspect this may have more to do with the introduction of martial law, and not deployment overseas. Enough said."

That wasn't real, and the rest of your conspiracy theories aren't real either.
 
labman
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Joined: 08/11/2020
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Posted: 07:15am 17 Nov 2020
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Suppose I told you that most people over age 90 have dandruff and dry skin.
The life expectancy of people over that age is never that high.

Very true. In the USA over 3 million people a year die from old age. Most at home or in a non emergency ward.
This year, there will be 2-300,000 COVID-19 deaths.

regarding Doxycycline. One side effect is diarrhea. I can't take the drug because for me that side effect is very explosive, I thought I was going to die.

But sure, Zinc, Vitamin D and generally being healthy and fit is a way to survive such bugs.
 
johnmc
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Posted: 07:37am 19 Nov 2020
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Covid-19--------Treatment

As it has been often said, with many human activities, FOllOW the Money.
Also buyer beware, as the drug companies are exempt from liability for their vaccines.
What products do you buy without any guarantee?

Cheers john        
johnmc
 
Georgen
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Joined: 13/09/2011
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Posted: 03:34am 23 Nov 2020
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What a shame to wait for Vaccine and not try to save as many lives as possible in a meantime !

Interesting if Class Action court case is possible against those who put us in house arrest and not look for alternatives?
Actually we could have 2 cases.
Pity it will not bring back anybody.

Looks that other countries are not as fussy to wait for "never never" solution and use what is available.
Some countries even drop Hydroxychloroquine in favour of Ivermectin that is more effective and saves more lives.

I would never think that developing countries will do more and better than supposedly more developed ones, ALL OF THEM !!!

Samples here:

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/karnataka/quadruple-therapy-with-ivermectinis-effective-in-treating-covid-19/article32601262.ece

https://health.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/pharma/anti-parasitic-drug-ivermectin-not-to-be-included-for-covid-19-treatment-protocol-health-ministry/78819616
George
 
Clockmanfr

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Posted: 08:29pm 23 Nov 2020
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.
Edited 2020-11-24 07:51 by Clockmanfr
Everything is possible, just give me time.

3 HughP's 3.7m Wind T's (11 years). 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (7 yrs). 9kW PV AC coupled SH GTI's. OzInverter created Grid. 1300ah 48v.
 
Davo99
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Posted: 01:32pm 24 Nov 2020
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I am so over all this Covid Crap I'm ready to scream, Strangle some brainwashed idiot or more.

Mrs had to go into hospital For an op last week. Getting through the front doors of the place on Friday was like breaking into the mint. Only harder.

All the crap with taking your temp ( which having those temp guns I can' possibly see being remotely accurate) answer the 10 Dumb questions ( how could I have been OS in the last 14 Days, I wouldn't have been quarantined on arrival and let out on the 15th) give all you details and get a little stick to say you had been through their BS checks.
Here is your face nappy, you must wear it at all times ( which I never even put it on seeing 10 staff not wearing anything) and sanitise your hands before proceeding 30 ft to the waiting area which had all the BS don't sit here stickers on them.  I made sure to sit my fat arse right on one.

Wouldn't even let me in the lift to go to the wards, No mate, no further than here for you.

On saturday, walk straight in, no fker anywhere in sight, in the lift up to the room with another lady Visiting her husband. Still no face nappy, no one said anything. Lucky for them.  Sunday the same , Yesterday they bailed me up at the nurses station and put me through the BS. I asked what all this was for? They said Covid. I said oh, is it only a think during Business hours? The nurse said no of course not! I said well there was no one downstairs all weekend and no one stopped me here so how come it's only an issue Monday to Friday?  She said you would have been checked down stairs. I said there was no one there when I came in, when my Neighbour whos wife was here came in or my daughter came in and I and my daughter took a vid of us walking in.  Would you like to see it?  No answer.

Today I go get her and there is somone looking bored at the front door.  I walk straight in, straight past, nothing.  On the way out, I see other people doing the same thing.

What a load of complete and utter Virtue Signalling BS!!

From there had to go to one of the gubbermint service centres to put the yearly health check in for Driving with my diabetes. People are lined up out the door and a hired probably illiterate security clown is standing at the door.  He has a temp gun which he points at people, waits for the beep and then directs them in without so much as looking at the thing.  I see he actualy shot the lady in fronts shoulder as he was perving at the Yummy mummy walking out as he did it.

If the guy didn't fiddle with his face nappy every 15 sec, he must have fiddled with it every 10 Sec. Yeah, that will keep you safe.  I get to the ftont, he points the thing at me and I asked whats' that? He said it's to take your temperature.  I said "It might look better if you actualy looked at the thing once in a while to pretend you are doing your job" and walked in.

Yes, I am one of "those people" giving other people a hard time over this crap. Well and truly fed up with it all.
Come home and I see Allan Joyce ( or is it Joyce Allen) CEO of quantarse wants everyone to have the vaccine before getting on one of his planes. Well he can stick that where he sticks other things far as I'm concerned.

As much as those not wanting this Crap get labled " anti Vaxxers" I'm far from that but I am against some concoction that's been thrown together in 1/10th the time a normal vaccination takes to develop and having some company CEO telling me what medical treatments I have to take for an overblown load of crap that has a 99% survival rate.  I normaly get the flu needle every year but I won't be any more. Turned out I never got it this year because they were in short supply and apart from a couple of days where I had the sniffles and night and fixed that with a good stiff Drink, I was fine.  Other years I have got it I have got sick and years I have missed I have not got it. Not just one way or the other but not necessarily healthy if I get it or sick if I don't either. having the flu shot is FAR from a guarantee of being fine.

Like every year I can remember, they always warn " This will be a bad flu season ( and every year a bad bushfire season as well)  and this one was. That is all.  The millions they predicted weren't wiped out. Less people died by far this year than last year. 97% of people that got it recovered which is better than all the other years previous. Of course those that were lost were predominantly 80 years and over and had pre existing conditions that were never mentioned.

A real estate agent I spoke to some months back told me of an office girls uncle OS that was diagnosed with terminal cancer and lived 2.5 years longer than expected was put down as a Chinah Flu victim when he did finally pass. I'll bet there was loads of that which went on. Died having the flu rather than because of it.

Are they going to mandate that I can't get on a plane because I have diabetes as well? that' kills FAR more than 1% of people whom get it so they would in fact be better off with that.

It will be interesting to see how this invasion of people's freedoms goes.  Either it will get a lot of kick back and loose them money and other airlines won't go with it creating an alternative. The other scenario is they will all go with it which has some better chance given how Quantarse's share price went up today.
Clearly way too many social media brainwashed sheeple whom can't think for themselves will go with it till we won't be allowed outdoors till we have all had a jab of their hastily concocted whatever.

I love the BS this is being marketed with.... " Could be up to 90% effective".
Yeah, I have been in marketing and advertising as well and those little get out of jail words mean it " Could Be" as useless as 5% effective and they have still covered their backsides because they never said it WAS 90% effective, only it COULD be UP TO
.... which means the likelihood of it being 90% effective are about the same as winning lotto..... without buying a ticket.

If not having some Over blown flu Vax means I can't fly anywhere, No problems. I don't have this overpowering desire to escape from where I live. Happy to stay in my own state and If I have to stay in my own town, that's fine too.  

The media hysteria talk like getting the China pox is a death sentence despite the very low death rate even in the must Vulnerable. Owners of company's that make the kits admit they are not accurate and the numbers are grossly overblown.  The most sinister thing about this pox is the way it's being made out to be so much worse than it is by many, many magnitudes.

I also heard all these people carrying on like morons because they will be able to go to Qld.  Sorry, I won't be going there again, at least not for a very long time.
I was betting they would open the borders before Christmas because with out the Tourist Dollar the tourism and hospitality industry's would cease to exist there.

They want to treat me like a lepper and don't want me there, Fine, I'm happy to comply. So are a number of my friends I have spoken to recently.  We are all planning on a holiday together next year after school Holidays down south NSW where the Bushfires were to give some of the local businesses there some of our Holiday money and keep in in our state.  Not keen on going to Vic in case we get trapped there like another friends husband who could not get back and wasn't allowed to even quarantine, We'll stay where we can get back home in case there is another outbreak of virtue signalling over reaction stupidity.

Seems it only takes one case to cause an " Outbreak" these days so not going to risk it. The rest of the sheeple can have QLD and if they are stupid enough to reward the way they have treated other Australians, More fool them.  So much for all the " In this together" BS.

Suddenly all these " Conspiracy Theroys" are getting all too real and if we don't put the brakes on what seemed laughable 12 months before, they will be a nightmare we are living every damn day.

When all this started, there were a lot of people that seemed like Crackpots talking about new wold orders and agenda 21 or whatever.  Not much to support those ideals and easy to write them off as tin foil hat wearers.  I wouldn't like to try and disprove their position right now. There is PLENTY that has happened already that I know of that is exactly what these " Crackpots " were talking about all along.

That makes it very scary and we are a long way from the end game of all this yet.
I'm not sure what the agenda for it is but I am absolutely sure there is an agenda and a plan of some sort and it's not one that I'm going to like or let us have the life we up until this year took for granted.
 
lizby
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Posted: 03:22pm 24 Nov 2020
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  Davo99 said  I am so over all this Covid Crap I'm ready to scream


Utterly foolish and self-centered. Check out excess deaths

"A 1% mortality rate “means it is 10-times more lethal than the seasonal flu," Fauci said.

Nobody doubts that Covid-19 is highly contagious. If there are no blocks to spread and everybody gets it that would be 78 million dead ultimately worldwide. But that number isn't going to be reached because sensible people who care about others in their communities will take the recommended precautions (like the Premier's "Stay the blazes home!" here in Nova Scotia) (even if some past recommended precautions have not been as useful as predicted), and will take the vaccine when available.

Certainly it's far more lethal to older people and those with co-morbidities (or present risks, like just about everybody in a hospital), but if you wish to just discount us and carry on with unsafe practices, well, shame on you.

~
Edited 2020-11-25 01:37 by lizby
 
Warpspeed
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Posted: 10:39pm 24 Nov 2020
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Oh its contagious, and its very nasty, but there are a lot of other things far more statistically likely to kill you.

I do not worry about being struck by lightning, being run over by a train, or being eaten by a shark.  
Every year people die from those causes, but I do not live in constant daily fear of any of them.
Cheers,  Tony.
 
lizby
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Posted: 01:06am 25 Nov 2020
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  Warpspeed said  Oh its contagious, and its very nasty, but there are a lot of other things far more statistically likely to kill you.


In the U.S., there are actually two (from 2018)--heart disease and cancer

  Warpspeed said  I do not worry about being struck by lightning, being run over by a train, or being eaten by a shark.  
Every year people die from those causes, but I do not live in constant daily fear of any of them.


Deaths in U.S.
Attributed to Covid-19, through November 22, 2020 -- 255,066
Lightning, 2006-2019, total 418
Shark attack, 1642-2020, total about 196
By train (not just run over)--under 1,000  per year
Dandruff (couldn't find any)

It's easy to make dismissive remarks if you are willing to totally disregard the seriousness of the disease for those who suffer the worst outcomes, and their families and friends.
 
Warpspeed
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Posted: 03:10am 25 Nov 2020
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  lizby said  
Attributed to Covid-, through November 22, 2020 -- 255,066

Note the word Attributed.
Very important !!!

Joe Biden is "attributed" to have had more people vote for him than Trump.
That does not necessarily make it so.

Total deaths in Victoria (the worst state, and where I live) 819
https://www.health.gov.au/resources/total-covid-19-cases-and-deaths-by-states-and-territories
Total population in my state 6.28 million
https://www.population.net.au/population-of-victoria/

So 819 / 6,280,000 in Victoria or one in 7,668

In the US 255,066 / 330,052,960
call it 255 / 330,053 or one death for each 1,294 people
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States

Why is Covid 5.9 times as deadly in the US as it is here ? Its exactly the same virus.

Could it possibly be this "attribution" factor.

As with the Joe Biden voter FRAUD nonsense, just because someone counts some numbers and says they are genuine does not make it fact.

Also our SOCIALIST left government with the worst draconian lockdown anywhere in the world are more likely to inflate the death statistics than minimise them.
So the 819 Covid deaths we are supposed to have have had, may also suffer from the same "attribution" problem, and may honestly be way below that. But we will never know.

And don't try to tell me our death count here is low compared to the US because of the horrific lock down we have had here.
Other Australian states had less severe lockdowns than us, and an even lower death count than here.

How is that possible ?

.
Edited 2020-11-25 13:34 by Warpspeed
Cheers,  Tony.
 
lizby
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Posted: 04:00am 25 Nov 2020
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Speaking of attributed, let's look at this statement from Nov. 9.

  Warpspeed said  Putin achieved wonders in Russia by wiping out communist corruption, and introducing democracy, and Trump is trying to achieve a similar thing in the US. The Russian economy is thriving now most of the corruption there has been eliminated.


Of course, no attribution is made for this statement, astonishing as it is. I can think of nowhere that such an assertion about Russia could originate other than the Kremlin itself.

Here's a site which produces, for 180 countries, "a composite index, a combination of 13 surveys and assessments of corruption, collected by a variety of reputable institutions": CORRUPTION PERCEPTIONS INDEX

Here's a list of their ranking

Russia is 138 out of 180 (higher number is worse). The largest democratic economies are all in the top 22 (least corrupt)--including US, Japan, Germany, UK, France, Canada, Australia.


Country        Rank    Score    Population
Denmark          1 88 5,792,202
New Zealand      2 87 4,822,233
Sweden           3 85 10,099,265
Singapore        3 85 5,850,342
Finland          3 85 5,540,720
Gabon            4 31 2,225,734
Norway           7 84 5,421,241
Netherlands      8 82 17,134,872
Canada           9 81 37,742,154
Luxembourg       9 81 625,978
Germany         11 80 83,783,942
United Kingdom  11 80 67,886,011
Australia       13 77 25,499,884
Austria         14 76 9,006,398
Hong Kong       14 76 7,496,981
Iceland         14 76 341,243
Belgium         17 75 11,589,623
Japan           18 73 126,476,461
Ireland         18 73 4,937,786
Estonia         18 73 1,326,535
France          21 72 65,273,511
United States   22 71 331,002,651

So I have to wonder about your sources, including those questioning "attributions" of covid-19 deaths and Joe Biden's electoral victory (where for all the over-the-top press conference assertions of fraud, there has been no proof given, and in fact, none even asserted in court) (why is it that only in conspiracy-theory circles is absence of evidence taken as evidence of presence?).

Do your theories all come directly from some Russian propaganda ministry, or are they filtered through intermediate sources?

~
Edited 2020-11-25 14:03 by lizby
 
Warpspeed
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Posted: 04:25am 25 Nov 2020
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And what exactly does that have to do with the Covid discussion ?

You have no reply to my argument about Covid, so you attack something I said a very long time ago about something totally different.

That is truly pathetic Lizby.

The real cure for Covid is the RED PILL.


Edited 2020-11-25 14:25 by Warpspeed
Cheers,  Tony.
 
Georgen
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Posted: 05:24am 25 Nov 2020
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Yes, mentioned:  UP TO 90% can be anything, but definitely never above 90%

(Reminds me of my Internet connection up to 25 M Bits per Second.
When Ookla speed test never ever got above 17 and could be as bad as low single digits during certain times or days of week)

The biggest problem I have with, is hostility toward good medicines  that can save life and heal person even severely affected by Virus.
(Here a lot of names come to mind, including one concocted by WHO so it doesn't stigmatise: region, country, race, ... - their word not mine)

Why worry about vaccine that can be anything from 0 % (ZERO)  up to 90%
(I can safely say that ZERO is in case of anybody who is not protected despite of having been immunised, one of those who fall into 10% in the best case scenario that vaccine is really 90% effective. Probably long stretch, but this interpretation of probability is fine with me).
George
 
Davo99
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Posted: 01:31pm 25 Nov 2020
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  lizby said  

But that number isn't going to be reached because sensible people who care about others in their communities will take the recommended precautions (like the Premier's "Stay the blazes home!" here in Nova Scotia) (even if some past recommended precautions have not been as useful as predicted), and will take the vaccine when available.

Certainly it's far more lethal to older people and those with co-morbidities (or present risks, like just about everybody in a hospital), but if you wish to just discount us and carry on with unsafe practices, well, shame on you.

~


I am in a HIGH risk category. Chances are if I get it I won't do well.  My elderly father also has complications that make him unlikely to survive a bad cold.
I'm plenty sensitive to risks but not to Bullship.

The media hype make out those people infected are forgone conclusions and the family should start making arrangements the day their positive result is confirmed.  It's complete and utter sensationalism and an insult to a thinking persons intelligence.

We have had this wear a face nappy crap rammed down our throats too but the most rudimentart research shows ( pre 2020 ) that no medical authority says wearing a mask will do squat to protect one from any virus and explains why they wouldn't work.
Suddenly in 2020, wearing a face nappy gives one virtual Chinah flu immunity.
No doubt you would deem not wearing a mask an " unsafe practice" even though all medical advise till now said they were worthless in this application.

Even my father says, " Us old farts need to look after ourselves and be careful but that doesn't mean that young people whom won't even know they have it should have their lives ruined" His position is I never expected to live this long and I could go tomorrow from a dozen different things anyway so I'll live the life I have left best I can, If I have to be locked in the house then I rather be dead and be done with it.  

All this talk of deaths is overblown because fear and sensationalism sells papers and makes people watch MSM.

My question is, How many of these people that the lockdowns " Saved" are going to die of something else like maybe the first hot day that comes along?  If they are in a weakened state that they can't survive a bad flu ( or pneumonia and other such things) really, how long have they got anyway?  Again, Like my father says, When you get to your 70's, you don't have a life expectancy. Any time you go after that it's said you had a good innings. You are not expected to live to 110 or anything else".

Even though the average life expectancy here is 82, I can think of far more people I know that passed that didn't get that far than did.  I had an aunt that lived to 101 so she skews the figures for about everyone else I have known. Both my beloved inlaws passed before they were 65.  My mother died when she was 38, My little brother at 18 and dont even get me started on other family. Any one that thinks their life is guaranteed to a certain age I would say is a moron.

I think this chinaah pox has all been politicised as well. I am again not sure of the reason, it's against the grain to cost Gubbermints and Big Biz Billions but there IS some sort of agenda whether one has identified it yet or not.  All the evidence does add up to that.
There are countries like Sweden whom didn't have lockdowns or a lot of other of these precautions and have done very well. I don't know why, I don't have to, the numbers tell the story as rubbery as they may be. I put more faith in low nuimbers than with high ones in this case.

As far as the US goes, I am far from surprised of the higher mortality rate there. The country with the most obesity and over all poor health of any with over indulgent eating and poor nutrition habits is a prime candidate for any increased health risk from the outset. No surprises there whatsoever for me.  

Looking at your Excess deaths Link, I see " Excess mortality is a term used in epidemiology and public health that refers to the number of deaths from all causes during a crisis above and beyond what we would have expected to see under ‘normal’ conditions."

Skimming over the page I saw nothing that mentioned Suicides.  It is not hard at all for me to imagine thousands of deaths from that from people that have lost their businesses, their homes, investments and many other opportunities through the lockdowns and restrictions put on people from this overblown, over hyped BS Flu. I personally know of a few people that have endured severe hardships because of all this over bearing crap that would be likely candidates with what it has put them through.
Now, do they count them as part of the lives lost to bolster the panic with the " Official " numbers or do they deny where the cure has been worse than the Disease?

I say anyone that believes any official Numbers from virtually any source ( especially Gubbermint and big Biz) these days is an absolute gullible fool.  But none the less, the gubbermints, Media and big biz thank these people most sincerely for being easily brainwashed sheep and supporting the narrative they are trying to push and influencing others to believe the same.
Those with a bit of Critical thinking can see the many flaws in the story line like the FACT that the deaths have been nothing like the gloom and doom predicted for a start.  

It may be a bit of a smart arse line but the adage of " A disease so dangerous you have to be tested to know you have it" is none the less very true for well over a 90 percentile of people that get it.  The assertion of a Pandemic with a 97% survival rate is also poignant.  What other pandemic and " Medical crisis" had that sort of survival rate?  I don't honestly know but I'm betting there weren't many if any at all!.

I also greatly question the numbers and the testing. I found out today off a friend his daughter was Diagnosed with it after spending time with a bunch of friends for a weekend away, one whom was also Diagnosed.  Both friends daughter and her friend were diagnosed, tested 3 days later and then found not to have it. None of the other 4 Girls they spent the weekend in close quarters had it neither did any of their families which added up to a LOT of people all up were found to not to have it. This is this Highly contagious disease that people in the same house have not got.
The girls were none the less quarantined and tested several more times and tested negative every time and had NO symptoms what so ever.
Hard to put a lot of faith in test results like that.

She is the only person I know of that has been said to have this raging pandemic and the far greater odds even officially are she never had it at all.

I am not afraid of Dying. For the last 5.5 years I have had to search for a reason to stay around every day and it puts me to more pain to stay round than the alternative.
I AM terrified of being sick though. I have seen what family and friends have been though with many things like cancer and my own emotional pain has taught me many times there are things far worse than death.
If I get the pox and don't survive, It will pretty much all be over in a fortnight or less far as I can see and I probably won't be conscious the last week anyway.  If I take some rushed together Vaccine, it could put me in all sorts of agony for as long as I hang around. No thanks.

I take medication to stay around. Started a new one on Saturday so I'm far from afraid of medications or worried about all the typical conspiracy theories BUT, I am very wary of some concoction that has bypassed all the normal safeguards and procedures to be rushed to the market to stop something that I have little to fear from one way or the other. I well know and have seen the side effects some well tested and widely used Drugs can have. I can only imagine the possibilities of something that has jumped the que by 5 years at least could inflict on a person. I am also about as suspicious as one can get over how safe this really is when there are probably Billions on the table for those  pushing it... which is why they are in such a gut busting hurry to get it out there. Profit Opportunity never before seen in history basically.

As far as hastily rushed Vaccines that have skipped 90% of the normal testing requirements, If people want to take them and the risk, hey, I'm not going to stop them or bitch and sook about them taking them!  They are braver than I and I applaud their contribution to society as Human Guinea pigs. The question is though, if they are going to be vaccinated against the Chinah pox, then WTF does it matter to them If I don't want it if they are safeguarded from  anything I have already?

Seems to me the people that are so for this vaccine are the ones that have the least to worry about and the older people and those with different afflictions that are more at risk take a much more realistic view and are far less prone to pushing their personal beliefs onto others.

I'll take my chances thanks.  If I die, well, the only 2 people that will really be affected, my wife and my daughter would be happy to let me make that choice.  If I get any worse through some Vax which has a real good chance of stuffing someone with my complications anyway, then they could suffer for years with having to take care of me or the financial and emotional burden of me being sick and in care.

Whenever the doc puts me on something new, I get a small dose to see how I react because it's a 50/50 with me if I will tolerate it. If they won't start me on a full dose of well known meds, stuffed if I'm going to take the risk of a full belt of a virtually unknown one! I'm on 1/4 dose of the new one now for a month and see how I travel then if it's OK I'll be put on half dose for another month. Will I get the same caution with the BS flu Vaccine? No way in hell!

As I am wanting to stay around for the foreseeable future, short as that may turn out to be, I'll do what I can to ensure that I am as well as possible and that does not include taking rushed vaccines for something I think I probably could get over now even if I didn't before.  

If this is till a thing in 5 years, which I'd put $1000 on tomorrow it won't be, then  with the proper time taken to see the results and side effects of any vaccine, if it's all good, sure, no problem.

Until it is properly understood,  I'm still plenty big, strong and fit enough to do a lot of damage to a lot of people whom try to force anything on me against my will.
 
Davo99
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Posted: 02:04pm 25 Nov 2020
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  Georgen said  Yes, mentioned:  UP TO 90% can be anything, but definitely never above 90%

(Reminds me of my Internet connection up to 25 M Bits per Second.
When Ookla speed test never ever got above 17 and could be as bad as low single digits during certain times or days of week)Excess mortality is a term used in epidemiology and public health that refers to the number of deaths from all causes during a crisis above and beyond what we would have expected to see under ‘normal’ conditions.


That is a perfect analogy of the marketing hype and misdirection used with the Vaccine effectiveness. When they have to 'Sell" you something like a vaccine to persuade one to take it, then I naturally get suspect.

  Quote  The biggest problem I have with, is hostility toward good medicines  that can save life and heal person even severely affected by Virus.


This is another excellent point!
There have been so many " Run of the mill" and common drugs/ Vitamins that different study's have shown great effectiveness but have all been dismissed in favour for a rushed " Vaccine". I think most people not brainwashed by the MSM would see the prime reason not to try more with the common, cheap, medicines and Vitamins is there is no money in them where as a new " vaccine" with it's 10 year patent on the formula would be worth Billions.  Always follow the Money.

I have looked at as many of these studys and research papers as I can find and started taking some common vitamins and pout my father on some. Not expensive and if they don't work, they only potentially make us a bit healthier and more resistant to other problems. Right now they have every bit as good a chance as working as anything else.

  Quote  Why worry about vaccine that can be anything from 0 % (ZERO)  up to 90%


Yes, the 90%  number is what they know will stick in peoples heads as if it IS 90% effective in all cases. As with all numbers and statistics, unless one knows the method and parameters of how the numbers were derived, they are meaningless. They will always use the best case scenario, not the mean average one.

It's like saying one has a 1000 Ah battery.  Big difference between a 2V 1000 Ah battery and a 100V 1000Ah battery and if you use a C20 or a C 100 rate. You can still plug either one as being " Up to 1000 Ah" even if one is measured at the C200 rate.

I'll bet my backside the way the numbers were derived with the vaccines will be kept very closely guarded and probably BS'ed as " Intellectual property" or some other excuse for keeping the true numbers hidden away.  

While I and a lot of other people are presuming this will be some dangerous cocktail, there is one other scenario I see.  The stuff could be not much more than glorified Saline with few things added in like Hartmann's solution and be no use at all.
They will have to get it past some sort of Gubbermit lab scrutiny so might also just be a magnesium, B12 whatever Vitamin cocktail.

Going to be a gamble for Joe public as to what it is and also I'd suggest if one were Vulnerable enough to need a vaccine, one would also be automatically be more vulnerable to it's potential side effects. Every medicine has them and they WILL be downplayed as much as the effectiveness rates will be inflated if not more.
 
lizby
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Posted: 02:15pm 25 Nov 2020
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  Warpspeed said  ... you attack something I said a very long time ago about something totally different.

Re Russian economy (in this thread): November 9 was a "long time ago"?

It was late at night here when I saw your post. I dealt with what I could in the time before bed. The older reference was to point out the unreliability of your sources, dating back quite a while.

  Warpspeed said  Why is Covid 5.9 times as deadly in the US as it is here ? Its exactly the same virus.

Could it possibly be this "attribution" factor.


Again, let's look at excess deaths by country (only through October 23).

U.S. 206,413 deaths attributed to Covid-19; 277,477 excess deaths. This is why many epidemiologists believe that covid deaths are undercounted.

Do you believe these deaths didn't occur? If they did occur, do you believe they aren't "excess", and if so why not? Or do you believe they did occur but weren't caused by Covid-19? If that's the case, what do you think caused them?

"Why is Covid more deadly in the U.S. than in Australia?" I don't know. There could be many factors including that Australia borders no other countries and can better control comings and goings. In the U.S., after Trump wisely stopped travel from China (actually slowed: Up to 8,000 Chinese nationals came into US after Trump banned travel ), the outbreak in the U.S. spread out from New York apparently spread by people returning from Europe and their contacts. Perhaps perhaps it has to do with the fact that Australia is 100th out of 100 in population density  while the U.S. is 79th. There are undoubtedly other factors.

But the U.S. doesn't have the highest rate of covid deaths per million  (some time in September, apparently). Here's a partial list:

San Marino          1,190       42  3.5%  124.32
Belgium           515,391   13,758  2.7%  120.45
Peru              925,431   34,992  3.8%  109.39
Andorra             5,567       75  1.3%   97.40
Spain           1,417,709   40,105  2.8%   85.83
Chile             524,804   14,633  2.8%   78.13
Brazil          5,747,660  163,368  2.8%   77.99
Bolivia           142,776    8,818  6.2%   77.67
Argentina       1,339,324   36,347  2.7%   80.88
Mexico            986,177   96,430  9.8%   76.42
United Kingdom  1,260,198   50,457  4.0%   75.89
Ecuador           176,630   12,920  7.3%   75.62
United States  10,400,227  241,798  2.3%   73.91
Italy           1,028,424   42,953  4.2%   71.08

It doesn't really make sense that the U.K., Belgium, Spain and Italy would report high pandemic death rates as part of a scheme to defeat Donald Trump's re-election bid (not to mention all those South American countries), does it?

  Warpspeed said  As with the Joe Biden voter FRAUD nonsense, just because someone counts some numbers and says they are genuine does not make it fact.

After the 2016 election, there was no significant claim of fraud by the loser--just by the winner--but there was significant concern that with all-electronic voting machines, it's too possible that "someone counts some numbers and says they are genuine". So many states set up the regime for auditable voting according to the recommended method--paper ballots counted by machine. The paper ballots leave an audit trail.

Georgia's Republican Secretary of State supervised the establishment of such a regime. After the machine tallies were in and Biden had about a 14,000 vote lead, this allowed him to call for an "audit" which was a hand count of all of the paper ballots. The audit led to the discovery of several significant omissions from the original tally (apparent user error by election officials, one of whom was fired) which reduced Biden's lead to around 12,000.

Now that Republican Secretary of State is being called a RINO by Trump supporters trying to overturn the result. (RINO for those not attuned to American politics stands for "Republican In Name Only".) Pre-Trump, RINO meant "Republican willing to compromise with Democrats". Now it means "Republican unwilling to break the law to favor Trump".

And it is the same in the other "battleground" states which Biden won--wild allegations of fraud and conspiracy made at news conferences and in the media; much more modest assertions made in court where the lawyers could come under sanction for false or frivolous claims.

So far as I can tell at this time, the rulings are 35 cases lost by Trump, one won (and that one was to require jurisdictions to separate mailed ballots which arrived after election day--which the jurisdictions were already doing because the state required them to).

More conspiracy theories; no more evidence.
 
lizby
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Posted: 02:43pm 25 Nov 2020
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  Davo99 said  [While I and a lot of other people are presuming this will be some dangerous cocktail, there is one other scenario I see.  The stuff could be not much more than glorified Saline with few things added in like Hartmann's solution and be no use at all.
They will have to get it past some sort of Gubbermit lab scrutiny so might also just be a magnesium, B12 whatever Vitamin cocktail.

This is just foolishness. Phase 3 trials assess efficacy, effectiveness and safety and establish dosage. The models which the various vaccines use are well known in general, and are no doubt going to be intensely scrutinized by the government bodies which must approve them for broad use.

  Davo99 said  Going to be a gamble for Joe public as to what it is and also I'd suggest if one were Vulnerable enough to need a vaccine, one would also be automatically be more vulnerable to it's potential side effects. Every medicine has them and they WILL be downplayed as much as the effectiveness rates will be inflated if not more.

Safety will be assessed during the trials, and will continue to be aggressively monitored. For many of us "at risk", I suspect the approval by government authorities will be enough for us to take the vaccine which offers protection against this deadly virus, and apparently for some of the vaccines, protection against the worst outcomes even for those who may catch it.
 
lizby
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Posted: 02:58pm 25 Nov 2020
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  lizby said  Should be per 100,000:

But the U.S. doesn't have the highest rate of covid deaths per 100,000  (some time in September, apparently). Here's a partial list:


Country    Confirmed cases Deaths Fatality /100K
San Marino          1,190       42  3.5%  124.32
Belgium           515,391   13,758  2.7%  120.45
Peru              925,431   34,992  3.8%  109.39
Andorra             5,567       75  1.3%   97.40
Spain           1,417,709   40,105  2.8%   85.83
Chile             524,804   14,633  2.8%   78.13
Brazil          5,747,660  163,368  2.8%   77.99
Bolivia           142,776    8,818  6.2%   77.67
Argentina       1,339,324   36,347  2.7%   80.88
Mexico            986,177   96,430  9.8%   76.42
United Kingdom  1,260,198   50,457  4.0%   75.89
Ecuador           176,630   12,920  7.3%   75.62
United States  10,400,227  241,798  2.3%   73.91
Italy           1,028,424   42,953  4.2%   71.08

 
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