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Forum Index : Other Stuff : Got a new toy Today

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Davo99
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Joined: 03/06/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 727
Posted: 11:19am 20 Feb 2021
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Been looking for a belt driven alternator for years, Literally and hadn't found anything suitable or affordable.  This rather substantial Piece came up so I decided to jump on it.... not that I think the seller would be getting over run with enquiries.




The seller said he had been making them in Cambodia under contract to the UN for humanitarian needs and had made a couple of hundred of them.  One of the first things he told me was he was 80 years old. ( I was thinking more 60 looking at him till he said that). He'd decided to go other ways ( Plastics Not retirement!!) and wanted to make space in his shed at home and at his farm which Ironically is just the next couple of areas back from where I am.

Luckily the guy had a block and tackle in his shed so we Hoisted it up and I just backed the ute underneath and lowered it in.  Getting it out at home with the tractor was a little more involves being the genset somewhat over it's rating  but I have learned before it will hold a lot more than it will lift and the bucket curl is more powerful than the bucket rams. I'm thinking of Up grading them.  Been looking at new tractors lately for my father. His Old 35 Hp will lift substantially more than a modern 50 HP because they are all basically derated and under capacity for OH&BS reasons.  

25 x 20 Kg solar panels would be nice to be able to lift out the ute but it's half a ton and I might be pushing the poor little thing a bit there!  :0)



Looks a bit precarious but I shortened the sling and got it off without ripping anything apart.  Glad I did do it on the grass. Lifted it OK, drove the ute out and then as I was lowering it as I was wary of, I felt the little tractor start to come forward so just dumped the bucket into float and it came down quickly but not falling onto the grass.  All good and the divots were less than I expected as was the bit of chipped paint on the frame. I should have put the counter weight on the back but it's such a pain but I think I'll modify it to go into the tow hitch I have on for everything else.


The generator is pretty much what I wanted alternator wise and is 3 phase. These things are so hard to get and rarely come up and never within decent distance of me.
Did a bit of wheeling and dealing and owned it.




I notice there is no stamping on the weight specification.  The engine is around 100 Kg and it's clear by the balance the alternator is a lot more than that.  I tried looking up the weights but they seem to be like a lot of other Chinese specs, whatever sounded good to whomever was writing the info at the time. Seem to be anything from 100 to 150 Kg and I'm determinately leaning to the heavier side just like the thing does unless I put the forks right to the alternator end of the frame.

It's wired for single and 3 phase output which is good and saves me the trouble.
I noticed the bearings are a bit noisy even though the guy said the thing was new and had only done a few hours for testing.  I'll pull them out and look at greasing them or putting something better in.  Maybe the Yak fat they factory lube the things with has gone a bit dry?

The engine, thats something else.




I bought another one this week  oddly enough but it was just a little 4 Hp watercooled. Even that weights 60 Kg so I think they are under rating this one bulk wise.

I tried spinning the thing up as it's hand crank only.  Admittedly I'm only a little bloke at 6'3 and just got below 110Kg and fitter than I have been in a while but it would take a much better bloke than me to spin this thing into action! I can't imagine how some little 50 kg Asian bloke would do it. Come to think of it, I can't Imagine how the strongest, fittest people I have known would.

I thought it must have a lot of revolving mass in the alternator so I slipped the bely off and if anything it made it worse.  There is still definite compression resistance with the decompressor activated but instead of the alternator smoothing it out, you can definitely feel it. They guy seemed impressed when I said this engine is too small to get full power out of this alternator, I guess you down sized it on purpose but what will it pull? He said it will do 8-9 Kw and explained that a lot of the people where they were used had no Idea of power consumption and would plug every appliance in the village into the things so the alts had to be safeguarded.

The guy said he still has alternators and electric starter kits for the things so I'm interested to get one off him. He said the fuel tanks had to be replaced with smaller ones to make way for the ring gears on the starter flywheel  But no problem to me. I'll just mount the tank on the top of the frame and extend the fuel line.

I am still wondering how in the hell they ever hand cranked these things though?
At first I though maybe it hasn't been started in a while and maybe there is a bit of fuel flooding the thing and some other pondering but then I remembered my 12 Hp Kubotas I have in the shed that these things are knock offs from are exactly the same. I can't hand crank them either although I can start the big lister with no problems at all.  Soon at these things hit compression they just stop cause you can't get them fast enough to carry through and fire.

Maybe the Horizontal cylinder types just don't have enough throw on the Crank handle? The Lister crank is huge in comparison to these things.
My other thought was to set up a Pony motor on the thing to spin it all up with a belt tensioner for a Clutch and then back it off once the big engine is firing.

None the less they are a pretty well packaged setup although I might change that too.










The frame makes the thing nice and easy to move around on the forks I made for the 3 Point of the tractor.  I knocked that up quick and rough as could be out of scrap I had laying around and they have proven to be one of the best things I have done in a long time. The forks are just 30mm This wall tube but they haven't bent to my amazement. I'm thinking I might stiffen them up bu welding another pair of half length  Tubes inside the middle area of where they are now. That will make them a bit wider closer in as well.





So now it's time to clear a space in the shed and set thing thing up properly.
That said, No idea what that is yet.  I don't have 3 phase up the shed and not sure I want to spend the $1200 plus the digging and stuffing around it would take to put it up there.  I did Build a ripper for the tractor the other week to lay some Drainage pipe but I'd have to go under/ through a wide path and under some  stone edged garden beds etc  to do the cable as the existing conduit is only 25mm. Of course!

It would be easy to enclose the genny in the shed and put a proper muffler and air cleaner on it to shut the thing up.  Alternately I could keep it mobile, maybe even put some wheels on the thing and trailerise it with weather protection and some sound limiting and bring the thing down If I wanted and just plug it in.

So many options and I'm terrible at making decisions. :0(

First thing I might do is drag out the Kubota engine with the electric start and put that on so I can turn it. I'll also see just how close these copys are and maybe take the flywheel, tank and electric start off the spare Kubota and put it on this engine.

The knockoffs are either Kubota or Yanmar and knowing my luck, I know the engine on there will probably be a Yanmar clone. I think they are the most popular in knockoffs.


Bringing this home made it a good day but it got better.
On my way home with the engine, I came across a lot of panels that have come off a factory roof. About 800 250 watters.  Unfortunately, and this irritates the living Crap out of me, the installers have cut a lot of the cables. Not just the ends off but to about 4" from the junction box.  I can't stand lazy tradesmen that do this but that's another rant.

Anyway, went back and Picked up about 50 of them so far, most that have the leads and a few with one connector missing but a decent length I can put another one on.  I can see I'll get 100 Out of the pile and beyond that, don't know.  Have to work my way through the pallets but the first 2 were all cut off. Different people doing them I spose.

They are good quality panels and I'm pretty sure I know why they were taken down. Probably falling output...... From all the damn Lichen on them!
They probably could have had them cleaned and the things would have been fine.

Anyway, I'm not complaining other than about the cut leads.  I might Pick 50 or so of them up anyway and use them for the carport roof beside the shed I want to build.





I'm putting these things on pallets so I can move them round easy and not push the shed over from all the ones I have stacked there to go on my own roof... when I can bribe my daughter to help me again.

I had someone come round and buy a bunch of other panels I had so that was a quick return against the cost of the Genny.




The solar table with the black plastic underneath is the Genny. Going north to visit and help my Dad for a couple of weeks so It's going to have to sit there till I come back.  Also the wrapped it up apart from weather proofing was The mrs Doesn't know about this latest acquisition as yet. I did tell her I was going to buy a Big Genny this year but probably wasn't expecting one so Quickly. Neither was I actually by a long shot.  
I'll get in the good books by cleaning out some other crap first and then I can tell her when she does see it I bought it years ago and just dug it out again. :0)

Funny though, when I asked her to bring me home the cash and she asked what I wanted it for, I told her Hookers and Drugs and the money arrived. She did ask "what solar panels I was buying now?" though.
She did say this afternoon, you bought all those panels and now you got all these for Free?  Umm, yeah, it's OK darling, I'll sell them and we can put the money back in the bank.

I'm a bad, bad man!
But a pretty happy one tonight.
 
CaptainBoing

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Joined: 07/09/2016
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1433
Posted: 11:41am 20 Feb 2021
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nice catch.
 
Revlac

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Joined: 31/12/2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 429
Posted: 12:08pm 23 Feb 2021
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These small 3phase generators are great, also hard to find those that are 1500RPM instead of the 3000RPM.
I much prefer the 1500RPM and bearing at each end, makes them much more versatile.

I'm not a big fan of Kubota, they are a good engine and good equipment, but If one gets a rare uncommon model its hard to get parts for them and very expensive, myself and 2 others have learned this already.

Its a nice little generator and easier to keep the frequency closer than the high rev verity.
Belt drive will be ok, depends what you want to power with it, seen some of these run on a tractor PTO to run power tools.
Cheers Aaron
Off The Grid
 
Bryan1

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Joined: 22/02/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 901
Posted: 07:10am 27 Feb 2021
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I've got an old onan 15kva 3 phase genset and No.3 cylinder failed on the air cooled engine and finding parts were unobtainable. I do know the 32 amp 3 phase and 42 amp single phase genhead was totally rewound so I have a big job oneday where I have a 1840 bobcat sitting here and the mate that owns it said he has moved on in life so it's a big job to rip the 4 cyl diesel out and marry it to this genset.

About 15 years ago I converted my shed to use vfd's on my machineshop and program the said vfd's to think the motors are bigger than they are.

I have used the lifting jib on my tractor to take the pump out and with the 500kg weight the front wheels lifted off the ground.

So I'm sure lifting the engine will do the same but with the front wheels off the ground about 2' I just skull drag it then lay it down to re sling it.

I'm 56 and got layed off from a fulltime job a week before xmas last year and with switching laborhire mobs I got a job at a motor body builder where it's a family company and in the interview I was told this is just a informal chat to get to know you and by the way when would you like to start. He went on and said mate you look in the mid 50's and if you want a job thru to your retirement you can have it if you can put up with us.

Well I duly started the next day and i have to say I'm going to like this job and use my experience to better the company. I have to do 3 months with the labothire mob to cut the cost down then I'll be offered a fulltime job.

So with a bit of forward thinking this project of marrying the genhead to this 4cyl diesel engine will have a register able trailer to suit so I can have 3 phase power around the farm and beyond.

It's only 4 years to get my super and the first purchase is going to be a 5 ton excavator and a 10 ton tipper truck so I can dig up a heap of rocks and put them thru my jaw crusher I made to get the gold out as I so live in gold country and my farm has a seam going thru it. I was told this by the local mine that closed and got all the data on where the seam starts.

So for me retirement will be 65 where I get a pro rata long service leave and have all the tools to have fun on the farm.

Now whats the bet my forklift batteries are still going strong too as the guy I got them from for free said in your situation those batteries should last 25-30 years if not longer provided you keep the charging up.

I moved my F&P wind gennie to a higher place and it's now putting out 10-15Kwatts a day so I made a new charge controller and the caps I use are the same that Gordon came up to look at all those years ago.

Cheers Bryan
 
Revlac

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Joined: 31/12/2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 429
Posted: 10:36am 27 Feb 2021
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My farther and I built a coupling for a genset we were rebuilding, the original motor had blown up and the genhead had a crook Bering.
We got hold of a good size old truck engine and coupled her up to the 63Kva or 68Kva Stamford, it has been going well for years.

Years ago we had this little 3 Cylinder Lister diesel with a 14Kva genhead, it had a great big cast coupling with a thick flexible rubber plate in the coupling, that worked well for many years.
It was getting on a bit and we thought we would try the big lathe as it could do with a service run to keep all the gears lubricated, the lathe motor was 15HP DOL start......(there's your first clue).....hit the start button on the lathe and the 15hp electric motor started to turn, then the contractor tripped and could here the geny loaded to the sh$thouse but picking up speed again, after hitting the start button again everything got up and running ok.
Nice, first time the big lathe had run, then we pulled the 2 way clutch for a higher spindle speed.....HUGE BANG from the generator shed and black smoke filling the shed, waited for the smoke to clear and had a look in the generator shed, Lister was still running nicely at 1500Rpm, shut it down to find that big coupling had blown to bits, split at the key-way on the shaft.
One big piece of coupling hit the fuel tank and caved the side of it in, the other piece hit the wall and the 3rd piece we never found, even after cleaning up the place and moving out.

We worked out later that the other big piece flew out the side of the shed past the carport past the driveway and landed somewhere in the neighbours bushy yard, couldn't have gone anywhere else.


Since then we built some of this coupling for the genset, I think the rubber tire part is fenner dodge , its done another 20+ years on that and still going.


A friend had a kubota excavator and needed to replace the sprockets on it, he found some but the shocking price stopped him from ever repairing it.
A 10T Hitachi excavator is cheap and easier to find parts for, sprockets and a set of chains were cheap enough to replace and get going again.
Another friend has  kubota excavator with a terrific little  6 cyl kubota motor, its good so far he also had a kubota B4000 with busted gears caused by a jam up from a pto attachment, PTO run in reverse on that one, at the time the only way to get parts for it was to buy a container load of used ones.

Lesson learned, try to stick with the common stuff, and look up parts you might need before buying something.

Got hold of a nice looking little kubota OC60 engine, try finding a new injector pump for one of these?

Davo that would be a brush type genhead wouldn't it, by the looks of.
Cheers Aaron
Off The Grid
 
Davo99
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Joined: 03/06/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 727
Posted: 11:06pm 07 Mar 2021
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  Revlac said  
Davo that would be a brush type genhead wouldn't it, by the looks of.


Sure is.

There is a little flexible metal cover on one end of the gen head where the brushes are with one of those clamping latches to Pull it tight. VERY easy access to the brushes.
I'll have to try and get some spares off the guy I bought it from who said he had some.
Also see if I can get the electric start flywheel and starter motor for that thing or I'll put one of the electric start Kubotas on it.

Not sure but what I have read seems to suggest an AVR could be fitted. I have a couple of universal types sitting in the cupboard I was given years ago by my BIL who bought them for a generator on his battle ship that wouldn't fit. one is a 12 Kva so should be about the right size.


I ordered a poly V belt for the other little engine I bought earlier that week, the 170 water cooled, which arrived while I was away.  I'm going to drive an 80A internal fan alternator off that from the flywheel which is about 300mm and the pulley on the alt is about 1.5 so should get good speed and power out of it. The engine is 4 HP and those alts in my experience pull about 2.5-3 Hp Fully loaded so should be an OK match.

For some reason, even though I have done a few now, making the alternator brackets always seems to be the most Fiddly time Consuming job even as straight forward and simple as it is. Might go down to Bunnys and see what they have pre made I can adapt.
I was thinking I might Try a spring on the alternator for a tensioner to just pull it back from the engine. I have some heavy springs with looped ends up in the cave and being a poly belt I don't think I'll need a lot of tension anyway. Although the flywheel is smooth there should be plenty of grip on that due to size and the alt pulley will have plenty of wrap so I don't think the tension will need to be all that much. In the past I have just used small turnbuckles for easy tensioners and put a bit of wire through them to stop them unscrewing as they tend to do.

I was going to co-gen the little engine but wondering if it's worth it now? Spose If I could pull 3 Kw out the engine and another from the alternator it might be Ok?
Might also be better to put the induction motor on that one and use it to backfeed  the house circuits and make up for the lower solar generation in winter. The engine has a twin V belt Pulley so suppose I could set it up for both and just remove whichever belt I don't want.

I'll get back into generator mentality with the little one then look at getting the big one going.
Edited 2021-03-08 09:15 by Davo99
 
Davo99
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Joined: 03/06/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 727
Posted: 12:22am 08 Mar 2021
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  Bryan1 said  I've got an old onan 15kva 3 phase genset and No.3 cylinder failed on the air cooled engine and finding parts were unobtainable.


My Brother in law went through a number of those Onan generators.  His failed and being unable to get parts he bought a used one which failed soon there after. Did that a few times before he finally took my advise and got the first one rewound.... which ended up costing much less than any of the used ones he bought.


  Quote  I have used the lifting jib on my tractor to take the pump out and with the 500kg weight the front wheels lifted off the ground.


I have a pile of dirt up the back I keep for one reason as ballast.  Fill the bucket  then go lift whatever I need But I have been thinking of some sort of Forklift attachment I could make up.  Maybe a frame with a 12 V Winch and put it on the 3 Point and have a couple of car wheels on Swivels like castors to take the actual load.  Ideally I'd want a capacity of around 600 Kg so I can unload pallets of solar panels.  The tractor would just be the mobilisation of the thing. If I could find an old forklift mast cheap, that would be a great basis to start from.

  Quote  So I'm sure lifting the engine will do the same but with the front wheels off the ground about 2' I just skull drag it then lay it down to re sling it.


I have been dropping trees and pushing them over for a fortnight at my fathers place trying to clean the place up. Only problem with skidding the logs is they often have to go over grassed areas that we don't want ripped up or gouged. I was looking to make just an axle with a couple wheels on each end and maybe some uprights and pick the end of the logs up on that then tow it to where I need to go. It's not trunks that plough so much. it's the blunt end up are pulling from.  I usualy have the stump grinder on the back so can't put the boom on to get any height.  I did manage to grab some on the ends with the 4 way bucket but they pull out too easily.



  Quote  So with a bit of forward thinking this project of marrying the genhead to this 4cyl diesel engine will have a register able trailer to suit so I can have 3 phase power around the farm and beyond.


Good to hear you found a job with a company like that. Loyalty to employees is a thing of the past pretty much these days.  I have heard many business owners and managers complain about employees slack behaviour but it's very much a 2 way street and there is little loyalty and regard on either side in may cases.

Putting my big genny  on a trailer might be the way to go for me yet. If nothing else it would give some good rubber isolation with noise and vibration.


  Quote  I can dig up a heap of rocks and put them thru my jaw crusher I made to get the gold out as I so live in gold country and my farm has a seam going thru it.


Sounds interesting. I watch some of those over hyped gold mining shows on YT. always seem to have the happy ending along with the rest of the predictable scripting but I get the feeling it's either a matter of feast or fammine with the latter bing a lot more common. As something you weren't dependent on for your livelihood, could be fun.

So many rocks where my father is but unfortunately none of them contain anything worth while and certainly not gold.  Just make it hard to dig anywhere and what you do dig is a pain to clear the rocks out so you can mow it.  



  Quote  Now whats the bet my forklift batteries are still going strong too as the guy I got them from for free said in your situation those batteries should last 25-30 years if not longer provided you keep the charging up.


I have been talking about batteries on another forum where the audience think DIY is an acronym for " Call in a tradie" even in reference to changing a Light bulb.  If you can't buy it with a 25 year warranty they don't want to know.  The mentality there and in some other places is so lipo obsessed now it isn't funny.  The mere suggestion of LA as an alternative brings on all sorts of stupid comparisons like how could you have a phone with an LA battery and all sorts of ridiculous claims like LA will only last 5 years and can only take 10%  DOD and can only charge and discharge at 5A and other ignorant and ridiculous Rubbish.

Laughable given 99% of the people preaching this crap Couldn't change a battery in their own car and are only repeating sales hype and looking for affirmation and acceptance from the rest of the equally ignorant heard.  Yes, Lipo has many advantages over LA but in a home/ off grid setup, LA is still very viable and if you can get batteries for free or near to it, why would you not grab them fast as you could??
 
Old Seagull Man
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Joined: 21/12/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 34
Posted: 10:01am 08 Mar 2021
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Nice one old fellow,
there will be some sad Lister boys, knowing you have gone to the dark side.

I cant speak to loud, this is one of my three.



plus a C/S 3hp and a TR 2

Andrew
Edited 2021-03-08 20:07 by Old Seagull Man
 
Davo99
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Joined: 03/06/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 727
Posted: 11:25am 08 Mar 2021
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Haha!

tha'ts a nice engine Andrew.
Do I remember right that you found a few of those a while back?  That style which is the same as the 2 I just got seem hard to come buy although occasionally they appear on fleabay new at stupid prices.  There are a great engine and in my unpopular opinion leave the listeroids for dead in most aspects.

I have only owned 2 Listers but I think I have a dozen or more different China engines ATM.... Plus a couple of Germans, a Few Italians, several Japanese.....

TBH, I have lost track of what the hell I have now.  I'm planning to pull them all out, put them together, take some pics and then start selling off what I no longer need....so I can undoubtedly regret it a month later when I get some other toy one of the engines I just sold would have been perfect for.  

I ordered Dad a fire fighting trailer last week.  They only came with a manual start petrol engine but I have an unused electric start Diesel up the back and I think it has the right shaft for the fire pump.  When the trailer arrives I'll do as one does and pull the pump off the engine and see if it fits. If it does I'll swap the engines over.
Make more sense to have Diesel rather than petrol around a fire and the electric will make things easier for him.

The other thing I'm thinking is to convert his Little tiny subaru Sherpa?  he uses for carting the fire wood down to the house.  The motor is stuffed and cantankerous so I was thinking to pull it out and put in a little diesel with a Centrifugal clutch  on the engine and a large sprocket on the gearbox input shaft.  Thing only has to go a couple of hundred meters  from the woodshed down to the house so not like it has to hit  60 Mph.

6 Hp would probably be more than the motor in the thing is doing now anyway.
I do have a 30 Hp  Ruggerini up there but that might be a bit over kill. Then again, he could get it registered and take it into town. Probably be faster than when new.

I did some more work on the little water-cooled generator/ battery charger today and pleased with the way that is coming along. Weather permitting should be up and making power tomorrow.
Edited 2021-03-08 21:28 by Davo99
 
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