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Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577
Posted: 10:42am 13 May 2021
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Set up and installed my Diesel heater this afternoon. So far, very promising.
Would have to have the WORST Chinglish instructions I have ever come across however. I worked out " The fuel giving device" as the Fuel Pump from the picture but much of the rest of it is completely and utterly indecipherable. 15 letter words with non English characters in the middle of the word and of completely nonsensical sentences. Other annoying little things like no marking on the in or out of the pump, the intake and exhaust on the burner ( both ports Identical) and no reference in the instructions. Literally better without them. Worked it out, fired it up, seems to run nice.
I very much doubt it's doing near 5 Kw but I am only running it at level 4 out of 6 till I get the CO meter out tomorrow and tune the thing.
Daughter came home a little while ago and commented how warm it was in the house and echoed a thought that I had... It feels nice and cosy, not stuffy. She said the fan heaters make it feel stuffy and I have thought this myself. ATM I have the heater outside and ducting inside and its drawing it's air from outside and pushing it inside.
Not sure if that has anything to do with the cosy feeling and it's said this is less efficient through heating the colder air but I think it could be worth while in pushing any drafts out rather than allowing the cold to seep in.
It's supposed to get down to 1 o on Sunday morning so that will be the test. I doubt it has the power to keep the place warm in the real cold but, run all day and heat soaking, might go a good way. It was 23 and sunny here today and about 15 now so not really cold but the test is soon to come. Sitting Nicely in the big room at about 22. The rest of the house feels nice too. Surprisingly warm and lacking the normal cool spots. Maybe the heat is pushing through all the gaps in the doors and windows and spreading?
Ill setup the CO levels and the fan speed and then I'll be able to run the thing to it's limit at those ( conservative ) settings and see how it goes. I can hear it clearly, mainly seems to be the air rushing past the little Grille on the thing. The exhaust is Noticeable outside straight out the pipe. I had it fired up before I tried to get the muffler on which I couldn't but holding it there made a Big Difference. I can't really hear it inside without the Muffler so not overly concerned. Strange Noise might keep the Foxes away.
The noise coming from it inside is no worse than a fan heater and certainly better than the one I have in here that rattles.
I am fuelling the thing out of a 3L milk container ATM just to get a visual on the consumption but it's funny to see that the heater will Generate the same amount of power out of that little container as my ( somewhat ATM) overclocked 5KW Inverter did all day. I'd say it will get through the full 3L tonight which will mean I only have about 497L left from what I picked up last week. I worked out that with actual heat delivered and Inefficiency, it's still half the cost to run for the heat I get than buying electricity.
I noticed what Roger said about his wood heater warming the floor. The outlet is in a piece of Gyprock I made up to fit in the partially opened window and cut a hole for the Duct. It will look quite OK with a bit of paint. The outlet is angled so I aimed it down. Hits the floor about 4 ft out. It's warmed the floor quite nicely. I am a little surprised. I thought it would take a lot more but it seems to be spreading as he said his wood fire does.
Didn't take the heat seeking guided pussy cat long to home in on it and hit the target that was for sure. He's real happy out there ATM!
johnmc Senior Member Joined: 21/01/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 282
Posted: 11:40am 13 May 2021
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Fitted one of those 5kw heaters to the motorhome fantastic ,also fitted gas sniffer as they say to be on the safe side.
Only problem even on the lowest setting it can get too hot, but they also come with a remote control decadence
The diesel is burnt with the combustion air inlet and exhaust outlet onthe outside of the bus.
U tube shows a lot of DIY Workshop in cold countries using these heaters .
cheers johnjohnmc
InPhase Senior Member Joined: 15/12/2020 Location: United StatesPosts: 178
Posted: 12:23pm 13 May 2021
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How many hours of heat do you get per liter of fuel?
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577
Posted: 12:25pm 13 May 2021
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You can go into the settings menu on the controller and adjust the parameters and tune the thing right down on the lower setting and right up on the higher one.
You can adjust the pulse width of the fuel pump and the fan speed down to 1500 RPM. When turned down the thing should be like a candle.
I just checked the CO on mine. Zero on the air outlet as it should be and I'm getting an 85o output temp. The CO from the exhaust was rather good at 16PPM. 50 is the 8 Hour exposure limit so way below that. Could run the exhaust inside and not have to worry!
I think it can be got lower but not sure if I want to, might actually decrease performance and increase inefficiency by blowing too much air through the burn chamber. I'll do some reading up and see what the best ballpark numbers are.
I was prompted to get the CO meter when I could not smell a thing coming out the exhaust. I thought it was going to be pretty good and that proved to be true.
Only burnt about 2L of fuel in 5 Hours. I hope the thing is capable of burning a lot more. That's where the heat is coming from so the less fuel burnt the less heat produced.
There has got to be a KW of heat coming out the exhaust at max power. I'd like to build a HE that recovered some of that.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577
Posted: 12:45pm 13 May 2021
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QUOTE=johnmc]Fitted one of those 5kw heaters to the motorhome fantastic
Are you the gent whom has done all the YT Vids on these things? I have watched them all and just put the names together.
johnmc Senior Member Joined: 21/01/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 282
Posted: 04:51am 14 May 2021
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Davo99 Not me, but I watched them, very good info. I think the utube bloke is from sydney. Cheers johnjohnmc
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577
Posted: 10:17am 14 May 2021
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I spent some time trying to work out how to get into the setting on my controller and watching vids but so far it evades me. I have the controller with the coloured animated pictures and readouts but it does seem fractionally different and not like most other controllers similar for getting into the settings.
Tested the Co on high today and it was the same so that part is OK. I would like to limit the fan speed though so I'm not going to wear the thing out too quick.
Shut the thing off after midnight last night and used about 2.5L of fuel. That was on setting 4. It did a good job and tonight I'm giving it a run on setting 6 was warm here today but the temp sure has fallen since sunset!
Also put up another 2.5 Kw of panels today so I can have a bit more electric power to heat with as well.
I'm Running the heater off a large car battery I found dumped and has come up OK. May be down on capacity and cranking power but ATM it's fine for what I'm running with it. I put a couple of 175W panels on a 20A Cheapie Charger and connected them up and suspect this should keep the thing topped up sufficiently. Run it last night off this battery and a couple of hours this morning and the battery was reading 13.5 Under charge today so should be OK.
Draw of the heater flat out is said to be 3A so with 100AH battery, should be fine. If not I have plenty of 10A power supplies I can connect to the controller and use the battery as ballast for any shortfall on startup.
I was thinking of getting an all in one type but see on YT they are not as portable as made out. The exhaust comes out the bottom with insufficient clearance as has the intake. Might be able to turn the heater on it's side and cut the casing somewhat or just make up my own better design for an enclosure.
Just checked the temp outside and it's 9o. In the big back room its holding at 21 and feels like 30 after being out there!
rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 792
Posted: 01:07pm 14 May 2021
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I'd never even heard of them until renewablemark mentioned them a while ago ... look like a pretty useful heater.
They kinda made me nervous to start with but now I've read up about them I am a lot more comfortable. It was the ebay ads that showed them with flames coming out the vents that made me baulk. Thinking they'd be spewing out carbon monoxide and potentially burning the place down.
Yeah, it's funny how some heating systems feel really comfortable, but others are not, even though the temperatures might be very similar. I generally dislike reverse cycle on heating because of the drafts. Always get cold ears and head for some reason.
Haha, don't use it all at once. At least you have plenty to experiment with.
That's good to hear. I hope it makes a difference for you there ... and now that you've reminded me, I need to add a few places on the tiled floor to my list of places that I record the temperature ... to see how long it takes to raise our floor temperature seeing I've finally lit the wood heater.Cheers, Roger
johnmc Senior Member Joined: 21/01/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 282
Posted: 01:17pm 14 May 2021
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Davo99 quoted "Draw of the heater flat out is said to be 3A so with 100AH battery, should be fine."
I believe that the heater only draws the 3 amps on initial start, when it has to heat up the glow plug, to start the combustion .
When the combustion temperature is sufficient to be self sustaining . the glow plug switches off, and the only current draw, is the draw that required to drive the fan
Davo99 quoted "I was thinking of getting an all in one type but see on YT they are not as portable as made out."
I also bought one for them for the shed but was disappionted, needs a lot of work to make it useful, housing too flimsy
cheers johnjohnmc
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577
Posted: 01:39pm 14 May 2021
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I had heard and knew of the original Erbespatcher ( sp?) and the webastos many years back. My Uncle had them in a couple of his Coaches. I'd looked at them many times on fleabay but they were always Horrifically expensive... and the originals still are.
When the Chynaah clones came out I was dubious about the quality But over some time and reading up on them and watching YT vids, I saw very little complaints and saw they appeared to be reliable and safe. I did have to work out how they actually worked before I thought of getting one.
I can make waste oil burners literally out of Chamber pots and have done it that do 200Kw+ output but even with recent experimentation, making one that even does 20 Kw let alone 10 Is magnitudes more difficult. I have come to realise though, making a burner to run low outputs on diesel is also a lot easier than making one to run on oil.
Having a unit with safety features and Monitoring you can walk away from and get low outputs is definitely worthwhile. Also shown me about the heat output I really want a DIY heater to do. 10-20 KW would be ideal for here I believe. Building it is still going to take some thought.
The bigger issue I see though is not the burner but rather the HE. Having this little diesel heater has given me a lot of ideas in the 30 Hours I have have had the thing set up though.
That said I'm more leaning to a batch setup atm. Heat say 800L of water over a couple of hours and use the stored heat as a thermal battery. Can run a big burner which will be nothing to build, use a big 200KW HE which I have a couple of and be happy! And silent and sage at night.
Ha! Chyneese Fleabay advertising. I was looking at electric car heaters. Same thing, Look like they could power a Furnace.... till you realise they are doing 100W on a good day. Yeah, that's going to feel like you have a flame thrower in the car.... NOT!
I have discussed this with my AC mate a few times. Seems my old unit is a bit sub par on the heating Dept. Only blows about 35o air when it should be a lot hotter than that. Not keen to spend the $8K on a new one and more so, Figure how to get the old one out up in the ceiling. The sheets on my roof are like 16 Ft long. That will be fun!
I wish it would use more. 10 KW I think would be perfect.
HA!
I have been doing the same thing. Trying to shoot temps at the same mark in the wall or other places.
It's definitely making a difference, The test will be Sunday when it gets to 1o. I think I'll leave it on all night on low to offset some of the temp fall and maintain temp.
Mrs mentioned it tonight in reference to it leaking in cold air. Told her I already taped it sealed and she said it seemed to be warming the place nice.
That's a 1056% approval rating translated right there!
rogerdw Guru Joined: 22/10/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 792
Posted: 01:11am 15 May 2021
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Yeah, that's exactly how I think too ... and to then to see someone I know is convinced they are safe helps a lot too.
What about picking up an old oil heater from a demolition site and using your diesel on that. Just need to work out how to service it rather than design something from scratch. I know, it's not the same as building one yourself ... but the end result should be ok.
YES!!! ... agreed, that is a huge plus.
I've found the same thing. Until you start experiencing how much heat a device puts out, it's hard to know just how much output you need or want.
Haha, nothing gets the creative juices going better than actually playing with this stuff. For me it's realising that something I thought was 'so', is not actually so ... and I have to rethink completely the whole process.
Funny you should say that. Now that I'm at the stage of having to build a big version of my air heater, I've realised that what you were all suggesting earlier about using the tubes to heat water is probably the best way to go about getting heat ... especially heat that can be accessed at night and during cold patches.
My problem was the step between air and water is too big for my skill levels ... and particularly my budget. Water tanks and seals and copper pipe etc etc.
I had the same conversation with my aircon mate and he said to aim for 10-15C degrees hotter than what my target is ... so 35 would have been what I expected.
Gas or oil furnaces are a different matter though.
Haha, yep. Makes the difference between continuing or giving up sometimes.Cheers, Roger
Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406
Posted: 05:41am 15 May 2021
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Yes, that is the way to do it. As the room gradually heats up, the entering heated air stays that amount warmer.Cheers, Tony.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577
Posted: 06:35am 15 May 2021
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The basis of operation makes them pretty safe. It's hard to imagine how they really could go feral. If they went into meltdown, they would do just that, meltdown and the show would stop. The flame chamber is totally enclosed and adding in too much fuel would tend to make it go out more than take off.
I can't remember the last time I saw one ever. The problem would be that they need a flue outside. I don't want to go punching holes in the roof and shadowing my solar panels.... which has been a big factor in the reluctance of installing a wood burner. Then again... If it could be moved to the peak of the roof it wouldn't shade much and if I had a heater I'd need much less power in winter and summer I could loose a 1/4 of the roof area and still be shutting down half the time.
Not having built it myself wouldn't worry me in the slightest. I'm not proud, I just hate the cold and want to stay warm.
I have seen 16Kw Diesel heaters on YT but I can't find any for sale. One of those even if it did a real 10 KW would be great.
I would look at adding some shut down features once I got a design up and going but my personal default safety feature is the " Let the bastard burn" Philosophy. Put it outside far away enough from anything that matters and it can go nuclear and it does not matter. That another reason going Hydronic is my preference. Can't transfer fire through water and I'd keep the radiator outside as well and just pipe the heat in through a duct. Plus the storage aspect of course.
Exactly. I can look at the output of an oil burner and estimate quite well what it's putting out. I can estimate how much heat a furnace is doing by looking at what it is melting but I really didn't have a lot of idea about home heating. Only that we could use boatloads of power with out hot water and AC in winter.... Which is creeping up again.
I have an old set of 180W panels on the back verandah roof. Put them on their own inverter earlier in the week and their output is pathetic. Lucky to get much over 1/3rd their rated output. Think I'll pull them down soon as I get a chance and replace them with some 270's I have. I'll get one less panel up there due to width but will be a lot more output in total.... I Hope! It's a good spot, no reason why they shouldn't be doing better other than I guess they are just old and have lost a lot of efficiency.
I did notice today they have some spots of Lichen growing on them. Probably hasn't helped output. I believe that was why they were probably replaced originally. They were covered in it when I got them and there were probably some spores left that have re germinated in the 3 years or so I have had them up there. Won't bother cleaning them, just get rid of them. I think the other half are up on the shed roof. I'll fire sale them to get rid of the things.
I think for me it's understanding the principals and methodology's well enough to be able to adapt and re-apply them in different ways.
I have found that a lot in the vids I have done. People have this idea that the only way to burn oil is spray it into a fine Mist. It's difficult to get through to people that this is not how oil burns but simply an aid to the principal of why it does. Explained 1000 Times it's heat that phase changes the liquid to a gas that is what makes it burn but boy that can be hard to get across to some. Seems a lot out there in internet land just have a mentality of what ever they think is fact and that's the end of the story. even repeated demonstrated proof is not enough to change their minds on anything once they have made their mind up.
I honestly think you are not giving yourself enough Credit. I don't think I could have done the setup you have and certainly not as neat and effective. Air and water are the same, they are both just fluids much as some thing differently. One you can't see leaking as easily, the other you can but for all intents and purposes, they are the same only different.
As far as tanks, my intention is to go to the scrappy and pick up a couple of Big 400L electric water heaters. I am amazed at the ones I see dumped there. Certainly more I have seen, and I have raided elements out of a fair few, show NO signs of leakage than the ones that do. I can only assume they were replaced because a thermo or element went and the Plumber convinced the owner to replace it. Then again, never got a bad element yet either so.... I have one heater up the back I got when it was less than 12 Months old on the unit. It's just a little one so I surmise it came from a Business or office.
Water heaters have insulation built in and 2 sets of ports on them plus the expansion valve. A 400L water heater with water taken from 80o to 25 holds 25KWH of heat. That's plenty useful and 2 of them would give me reserve. I can put the energy in with a burner no problems at all, what you would have to work out is how much power you have available to invest. Thing about liquid fuels is I could pump 50 Kw into the house and 50 into the storage. If It wouldn't cook the house I could walk it in in an hour... or less.
OTOH, if you could also put up an amount of panels and direct them at the heater, then you have more energy input still. And as I have alluded to many times, I can see the water system being able to help with cooling as well.
Interesting. I cranked the little diesel up last night and got an outlet temp of 90 which was good. I noticed you can be some distance from the air output to the end of where you feel it moving and it still does not feel cold.
Yes, when I mentioned the waste heater to the Mrs she arced up and I said this was important to me to try and please not give me any grief. I promised to make it presentable and out the way so the only thing she has said so far is " are you still going to do it?"
Yeah but still testing and thinking. weather hasn't been exactly conducive either. It's been either wet or had better things to do in the sunshine than play burners.
I cranked the diesel Burner for a few hours last night as the temps fell. I didn't find it made the place feel hot or even noticeably warm but it didn't feel at all cold either so good enough. I left it going all night on the lowest setting and it was nice out there this morning when I got up... about 4 times. Don't always sleep that well.
It's been cloudy and windy most of the day here completely against the prediction with a shower this morning. Went to the engine show and was only there about 90 Min. Not much there much to my surprise and disappointment and started to rain, was windy and miserable. Sun didn't appear at all till about an hour ago. I can see why tonight will be cold. I'll crank it up early about half power and see how it goes from there and might leave it on 2 setting tonight instead of 1.
I would guess I burned maybe 4L last night. Feeding it out of a 25L drum now so a little harder to judge but If I can get a week out of a drum, won't complain. Battery is back up to charge again despite the day and the hours run. I think the heater is only about half an amp on low so not a lot of power.
I might try a Diesel veg oil mix for hard running. From what I have read and understand, running on veg will not be the best on low settings but at higher ones I think should be ok and given the occasional hard run on Diesel alone should help with any deposits. The thing seems to be running pretty lean so that will also be a plus with the veg.
I will have to get some transmission oil to test as well. I'll do the spoon test over a burner flame and see if it leaves residue. If not, would be a perfect fuel for these things.
renewableMark Guru Joined: 09/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1678
Posted: 07:56am 15 May 2021
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Hey John, why didn't you like your all in one unit?
I got one and it's fine for the shed, the inlet and exhaust pipes need 10cm to be able to bend around to either side. If you used them as a camping unit you would have to mount it up on blocks to get clearance underneath.
I put the unit on shelf brackets and fitted it to the wall 1.5m high so it has plenty of clearance for the pipes.
That cover that goes on it is just a dust cover it doesn't need to be used as a vehicle stand, so it seems totally fine for it's purpose.
The unit here draws 8A on start up and .7A running on setting 1.
Dave, having the intake from outside air gives you positive pressure inside the house, that works great, warm air gets expelled through the draughts instead of the draughts importing cold from outside.Cheers Caveman Mark Off grid eastern Melb
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577
Posted: 08:19am 15 May 2021
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Exactly what I saw in the Vids I watched. Really sh*ts me with things like this that are not what they are supposed to be. Tight arse penny pinching instead of producing a proper workable product.
I wanted one I could just sit outside a window and duct the air in as well as possibly using it for camping. Haven't done that forever but Mrs and I were talking about it and this would make it more attractive.
I spose it could be set up to be properly portable or I could just set a standard one up myself and build a case for it. Couple of 9 Ah batteries would probably power it for a similar time to the fuel would last anyway.
Yeah, that is exactly what I thought. Rather push some warm out than have cold leak in. I figure at worst I can make the imperfect sealing of the place work for me rather than against me by helping the warm air travel through the house to escape and warming the place as it does.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577
Posted: 08:53am 15 May 2021
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Tried a quick test on a 50% veg oil mix.
Very interesting.
The temp readout on the controller which I believe is case temp, stabilised at 170o on diesel. Same as it has before. I put the pickup in the mix and the temp dropped to 162, exactly what I expected. Veg has about 10% less energy than diesel so with a 50% mix, this was what I expected to see as a power loss. After a short while, maybe 30 Min, the temp had dropped to 152.
Couple of things came to mind, the rapidly dropping outside temp and the fact the veg is thicker than diesel. Knowing how oil behaves,vI got a bucket of hot water and put the mixed container in and saw a small improvement after a while but not a lot. I have a fair bit of fuel line between the pump and the tank so I doubt there was any temp improvement in the fuel by the time time the fuel got that far. Maybe if I could find some capillary tube copper and clamp it to the exhaust before the pump that might work to heat the fuel. Pump seems pretty strong so in hindsight shouldn't be the effected I don't think.
I raised the container up thinking Might get bit of a syphon effect going but that again was only marginal.
The temp stayed at 152o and the air output seemed to be cooler though the thermo in the air outlet didn't show anything like the 30o difference in the readout. I gave it another 30 Min or so then changed back to the diesel. Was a bit disappointed to see the thing had used at best 250mL in over the hour telling me this thing is putting out way less than 5 Kw, probably closer to half.
On the upside, there was no difference I could detect in CO levels on the mix with the meter, the pipe still has no signs of soot at all confirming it's running on the lean side and the only difference in aroma I could detect ( and there is so little it's hard to get a wiff of anything) was the feint " warm air" smell that I am familiar with on a clean running veg oil burner.
When I put the pickup back in the diesel, the temp climbed to 180o and after a few min dropped back to the familiar 170. My 2 theroys on this is there was some carbon that burned off with the diesel giving a little more heat ( carbon burns hot) or that the change over from the tanks put a little air in the line which lessened the drag on the pump.
I think I need to get into the settings on this thing and see what the pump is running at because it seems there is plenty of margin for more heat here. Then again, the CO meter says I could come down more. Not sure what the balance should be. I have put the thing back on the mix and will run it longer and see how it goes and behaves with more mix through it.
I'll put it back on diesel, watch the temp and then when it stabilises again hopefully at 170 I'll turn it down for the night.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577
Posted: 02:24am 16 May 2021
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Heater stood up well to the coldest night so far.
Ran it on high till about midnight then backed it down to half for a while then down to 2 when I went to bed. I noticed later when on high, the temp backed down to 158-160. I surmise this was due to falling outside temps.
It managed to keep the back room at 20 till I turned it down but was still 19 this morning which I was pleased with. It feels much warmer and the warmth is pleasant. I'll see how it goes as the temps fall. Still 5 weeks or so till solstice so I fully expect it will get a lot colder here yet. At this stage, I'd be prepared to buy another if it can't keep up which I thought from the start was a big ask.
Battery voltage was dropping so I put a power supply on it to stop the well used battery getting too low. This morning it was above 12V so all good. Charging well this morning on the solar charger being very bright and sunny here today.
Fuel used was not as much as I thought it might be, around 4L I'd estimate. A 25L drum of Diesel will have about 200 effective KWH that can be pumped into the house. That's quite a lot in terms of solar generated power and although I could do that in 2 days in summer, really pushing to do a 3rd in winter. Have the system only at about 30% of what it was atm as well but holding up OK.
Thinking about the drop in temps when using oil my next test will to be to go back to years of experience running engines on Veg. I have for 15 years+ advocated running a blend of petrol in with the oil. In an engine I firmly believe this allows the ignition timing to come back closer to where it should be for straight diesel. In this case it will thin the oil marginally and again I believe allow it to light off a bit easier and potentially Burn cleaner.
I'll start with a 5% petrol addition to the 50% oil mix but I think 10% will work better going on gut instinct and related experience. 5% is good in engines in warmer months, 10% allows much easier start up in winter. 15% is the limit I like for engines. Don't want to go that high with this. Kero and turps may even be better being a non volatile however it's impossible to buy them at any worthwhile price point.
E-85 may work well in this case. I have some supercar race fuel up the back which is essentially the same thing so I could try that as well. Alcohol in engines running veg does not work well. It boils a good 20oC lower than straight petrol and can cause vapour issues especially when an engine is shut down and left to heat soak and then tried to be re fired. as the vapour expands 1000x, only takes 1Ml of booze to create a litre of gas which is a huge amount in a diesel fuel system. No where in this setup for it to get enough heat to phase change till it hits the combustion chamber and then it will be welcome. Booze also burns perfectly clean which is a big asset as well.
It seems the controller I have is a new design. It does not have the red numbers across the middle like all the rest on YT and does not have the battery symbol in the top RH corner as well. I found a number of comments from people with the same controllers also unable to get into the settings. This one has manual H 1-6 settings which the others apparently don't but having spent a fair bit of time on it now, I'm becoming convinced with the complete lack of any other evidence that this one may not be able to be adjusted like the others. Might have to put my optical rev counter on the thing and see what speed the fan is doing. Hopefully under 4500 rpm and 4000 would be better.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577
Posted: 01:25pm 16 May 2021
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Been giving the heater a run on the Diesel/ veg/ petrol mix tonight. Very excited to report a complete non difference in output temps! :0(
I did kind of expect this. May be a very marginal improvement but I would say well within the inaccuracy of the measurement and temp difference. I'm not sure 10% petrol would make a measurable difference either but 2 other thoughts came to mind.
The oil I am using is from a drum I have been testing the veg oil burner designs with and has been left open. Veg oil is Hygroscopic which means it will pull moisture from the air and trust me, it does at every opportunity. Takes a little while but many times I have left a perfectly dry batch in my open top 205L processor and come back 3-5 days later and found it wet enough to need reprocessing.
Non dried oil can have a VERY significant effect on engine performance, far more than those whom have run dried and non dried oil would ever believe... or choose to accept. I see NO reason why it would not be the same in a burner. it's just a constant burning at atmospheric pressure rather than a pulsed one under compression. Still burning of fuel just different outcomes sought from the process.
The next test may be to dry some oil and then test. Based on the difference I have seen from engines, I would not be at all surprised to see this alone bring the temps back to within the 10% energy difference of the fuels.
2nd thought is do I really want to have dry oil and is it for the best? Running oil in engines I am 117% convinced that water injection is the magic elixir and cure of 99% of potential problems which all related to deposits, mainly carbon and fuel not completely and totally burnt. Water phase changed to steam removes these buildups and allows one to get away with impunity what would otherwise Kill an engine in possibly hours.
Having the moisture entrained in the oil in a burner may have a helpful effect in this area as well. I suggested this to a Toober whom does a lot of vids and testing on these heaters and he tried it and deemed it not to work. The flaw I believe in his test was it was of far too short a duration. Water is very slow acting. I have had cars that took 3 Months or normal driving to be fully cleaned out and it took literally hundred of liters of water in total ( along with 100's of litres of fuel burnt at the same time) to come good.
Putting some water into a heater ( or engine) over the course of even an hour ( and the test was no where near that long) I would fully expect to do nothing. It's highly detrimental to add water to the fuel of an engine but a different thing all together to add it to the intake air. In this case I would tend to think that adding water to the fuel would do the exact same thing on a heater, kill the fuel pump BUT, I would also think that the humidity from the air absorbed by the oil would be too little to make a difference.
There may ( or may not) be enough moisture in the oil to keep the burner combustion chamber clean( er) but I would tend to think it certainly won't hurt if it does not help. OTOH I can also see where adding water to the air intake on these burners could be tricky and easily create more deposits than it removes. Then again, going back to engines, a 50% mix of Alcohol may not only help with cleaning, it would most likely offset the chamber temp drop caused by the energy required to phase change the water but the extra fuel added would infact increase the power produced without the risk of fouling at all.
The difficulty will be metering of the tiny amount of mix to do this. I can see something like dosing the water/ meth though a 32G ( ,25mm) hypodermic needle.
Earlier I refilled the 3L milk jug with the mix and noted the time I started the heater on it. Noting the hours run and visually comparing the amount of fuel used, I'd have to say the thing must be putting out closer to 5Kw than I assumed. I'd still say it's closer to 4 KW but not the 2.5 I assumed earlier on.
The CO meter shows a doubling of the readings I have got before which is very interesting. That would indicate a less clean burn which does not make sense to me. Can't see how having a more volatile component especially at 5% would increase the CO by double. I can't smell any difference in the output much. If anything I'd say it smells possibly cleaner, less veg aroma. The exhaust is still 100% soot free which is also an indication of very clean burning.
Seems much colder outside tonight and had the doors open a lot this evening installing the new furniture that arrived through the week so I would expect that has dropped the inside temps a fair bit as well. The temp of the back room is still high 19 so at best a degree cooler than last night and far from cold. Also been running on the veg mix giving a 20o lower casing temp than it did last night so another identifiable factor right there.
Still very happy with the thing and if the only drawback of the 50% Veg mix is slightly lower temps, any increased fuel consumption would be more than offset by the 50% cost saving.
Again like some do with veg on engines, starting and finishing on diesel might be the trick to long running success with oil here. Getting the burner up to temp then running diesel to burn off any deposits would probably go a long way to keeping the burn chamber clean.
Davo99 Guru Joined: 03/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1577
Posted: 10:27pm 17 May 2021
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Tried a 10% E-85, veg diesel mix last night. Very slight temp increase but I got the feeling it didn't like it over all. I had a flame out at one stage and could see what looked like water droplets in the fuel line. I shook the bottle the mix was in, did a restart and it lit but took a bit to come up to speed. It ran fine till I went back to diesel to run the thing on low for the night.
Running it on 2 used about 2 L of fuel in 6 hours.
I also manipulated the exhaust pipe under the burner inlet and in front of the air delivery intake. The muffler is well above the inlet so I'm not pulling exhaust but I'm pretty convinced it would not matter if I did. The CO levels coming out the thing are so low that with the much greater amount of air being pulled in, I;m more than convinced the combined CO level would be well under limits. It's just above limit on it's own, Diluted it would be 1 or 2 out of an acceptable lower level of 9. Probably get more CO sitting in a car in traffic.
I want to play with this a bit more. Shouldn't be hard to make use of the waste heat to pre heat the burner intake air and have some ( clean) heated air for the space air as well. Seems to be enough waste heat to be worth while capturing and I'm sure could improve the numbers. Bit surprised they haven't made a HE to do this already.
Revlac Guru Joined: 31/12/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 961
Posted: 12:35pm 18 May 2021
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Be interesting to see what else works with these heaters, Have one on order. Its not really cold here usually, but the heater will have other uses as well I think. We have had some nasty Frost some years back, the rented house (down the hill) further down the road, had ice on the roof till 10.00am one time, killed off a lot of cane toads as well, did not like it that cold for more than a week. Cheers Aaron Off The Grid
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