 Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me. |
Forum Index : Other Stuff : PM motor as generator
  Page 2 of 2 |
|||||
| Author | Message | ||||
MacGyver Guru  Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
Yank-to-Yank: Think of a third Yank, Thomas Edison. It took him something like thousands of tries before he hit on what you & I commonly call the light bulb. To you and I, it looks like several thousand failures. To Mr. Edison, it merely meant he'd found several thousand ways how NOT to make a light bulb. He persisted and finally hit the nail on the head. My point here is: Don't get discouraged. I can tell you first hand that about 85% of the ideas I come up with and build, work only marginally, if at all. Most become paper weights! Still, I persist. I'm not after any prize; I merely enjoy trying stuff. That's the attitude you need or you'll become very disappointed and that little carrot that dangles in front of you keeping you going will fall to the ground! On the subject of "Free Energy" as it applies to this forum, we ALL believe in free energy, but our terms differ slightly. The "free" part for us is that wind or sunlight is free (so far--give it time). I know only too well the feeling of someone throwing water on my fire. Hey, that's why Smokey the Bear never had any kids. Every time his wife got hot, he threw water on her!! 
Edit: I thought you were from the States. If not, that "Yank-to-yank thing won't make much sense. See? Goofed again--it happens! Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
||||
| Bernhard Newbie  Joined: 01/02/2010 Location: CanadaPosts: 12 |
Actually there are "power companies" that are doing something that resembles jazzman's plan...but I stress resemble. For example the power plants at Thule Air-force base and the C.F.S, Alert Listening Post near the North Pole on Ellesmere Island, just to mention some. The purpose is however to have a UPS for highly sensitive equipment, that would need lengthy recalibration and would have to re-negotiate a whole mess of digital communication links.... The main power plant runs 4 800hp 12 cyl. cat diesel generators and the particular "end user" with this sensitive equipment uses the local grid power to continuously run a ~75 hp 3 phase motor. ...they do NOT use the local power grid directly! The 75 hp 3 phase has a secondary input shaft to which a DC Motor (equal hp) is ganged and the output shaft runs through a flywheel of impressive proportions then on to a 3 phase generator....which powers up the equipment. The purpose is of course not "perpetual motion", but rather to be able to supply this particular equipment with power in the event of the diesel plant failing and doing it in a manner where this equipment which is extremely sensitive to transient spikes or is not running at EXACTLY 60 Hz would not "see" any difference within a millisecond window. On occasion we interrupt the local grid to this "end user" just to test the UPS. The larger part of the room is taken up by rows of racks with NiCad batteries. When the power is cut off, the large flywheel keeps the generator running till the high speed pneumatic switch closes to supply the DC Motor on the second inputs shaft with power to maintain EXACT revs for the 3 phase generator. The battery bank is good for 4 hours, by which the problem in the event of a real power failure at the diesel plant is expected to be rectified. All other "stations" and users at Thule and Alert are switched to a backup plant which auto-starts in such an event but the lights will be out for about 30 seconds! Also those at the runway...and all "air nav" systems. The "special equipment" however does not even experience the slightest aberration, thanks to the flywheel and the DC Motor which then powers the gen set. I wish I could remember the name of the (German) company that manufactured this rather unique UPS, but my last tour of duty at these bases was over 10 years ago. |
||||
| jazzman Newbie Joined: 29/01/2010 Location: Posts: 11 |
Thanks guys, and yes I am from the US. The motors I am using are 12VDC permanent magnet 1/6 HP 14Amp 1800/3900 RPM 12-24 volts DC with external brushes. Just by spinning it with a primary mover you can easily get voltage/current to charge batteries. This is obviously not the best choice and way to go but it's a start and learning curve. As I have a variety of motors like this, I thought I could use them to charge batteries.Some are lower rpm motors such as 1100-1200. They are used on battery operated gate openers. The way I look it is if one can make a system that does not rely on the sun or water then that would be an advantage because not everyone has a river next to their house otherwise they would use a hydro electric system.If you do have a river next to your house then consider yourself blessed.As for solar systems they (the panels can be costly) at least for me. And solar panels only charge when the sun is out. A systm that I would like to build would have constant power being generated.It would also be less costly and maintenance. Motors of AC,DC and other varieties are easy to come by and can be made to run as generators.One can also use a flywheel system which to me is my preffered way to go but because I don't have everything I need to fabricate such a system, I thought I would make one with a primary mover instead of say a flywheel or wind,solar,hydro etc. |
||||
| Dinges Senior Member  Joined: 04/01/2008 Location: AlbaniaPosts: 510 |
Ok, this is getting too silly to remain quiet.... Here's an experiment for you to try. Skip the batteries, fancy motors and inverters. Find yourself a bicycle wheel and two bottle dynamos (rim dynamos). These are both synchronous generators and synchronous motors (motors when powered with AC - which is what a bicycle rim dynamo puts out). Mount both on a frame and wire the dynamos to eachother - one will be working as a generator (rather: alternator), the other will be functioning as a motor as it is being electrically powered by the alternator dynamo. You may want to put a small lightbulb over the lines too (bicycle lamp), to indicate electrical power. Now give the wheel a good spin and watch what happens. If it slows down.... then you have once again experimentally confirmed the validity of the 2nd law of thermodynamics (google that one). If it starts to speed up (or even remains spinning, as the motor is powering the wheel), you're elegible for a Nobel prize in physics. When you receive yours, don't forget to mention in your acceptance speech who gave you this idea. (me, that is). Your name will appear in the history books of future generations, next to the names of Maxwell, Edison, Tesla and Einstein. Just make sure you've got a sturdy brake mounted on the bicycle wheel, to prevent the wheel from speeding up and self-destructing at too high RPMs due to centripetal forces (google 'flywheel explosions' to see what I mean). Applying the brake will also help to prevent the lightbulb from burning out as the wheel speeds up and voltage increases. If you can't get it to work to like this, powering a tiny bicycle lamp (6V @ 50mA), don't even bother messing around with UPSes, batteries and other gadgetry, which will only serve to introduce extra losses into the system. I.e., keep it simple! Peter. (<-- surprized this discussion has been going on in this direction for so long, without anyone stepping in) |
||||
GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
It sounds like a UPS is not intended, but free energy is. I was right about the motors. I see now why you give no information about yourself. There is no polite way to say that what you are planning breaks fundamental physical laws. The best we can do is convert one form of energy into another, as many do with windmills, hydro, solar etc. Once the capital cost of building, is recovered, then the energy is FREE in a "$" only sense. Total Entropy still increases. I don't expect to see anyone getting a NOBEL prize this way. Gordon. become more energy aware |
||||
| jazzman Newbie Joined: 29/01/2010 Location: Posts: 11 |
I got say thanks again, but you guys are crazy.What difference does it make where i'm from and what kind of motors I use.So I'm from Texas have 3 kids and have about a dozen variety of AC/DC motors. Even if I don't get what I expect maybe it will be enough to justify my time/effort.And whats wrong with UPS's they are rugged and work, if they can run all night and keep lights going why not use them. I do plan on using either an inverter or UPS, whichever works best.Don't limit yourself to what works when there are so many options out there.Motors as generators,PM motors as generators,Fly wheel systems, Homopolar generator, etc. etc. And what's wrong with batteries, what else are you going to use with solar/wind generators. |
||||
Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333 |
Jazzman, You must be hard at hearing or have dementure!!!! As you are right back where this started. Incase you missed it the first time ...IT WONT WORK!!!! Glenn, Gordon, Peter, and myself have told you that. I think you read what Burnhard wrote and thought he supported your theory. He did not, so read it again. As you are hell bent on doing this its best you go and do it and fall flat on your ass with the results. I think this is the only way the message will get through. Some people are dangerous with a little information and you display that you fit that profile. Others listen and learn you dont. Go ahead and i just hope you dont hurt someone along the way. Pete. Sometimes it just works |
||||
| jazzman Newbie Joined: 29/01/2010 Location: Posts: 11 |
Thanks Downwind, but I don't have dementia. This is just a process that can be changed if something along the way doesn't work then i'll change it. Look at what's written below your name. (Sometimes it just works) and I say maybe/maybe not, just keep moving.Is anyone working with motors as generators or using pm motors to charge batteries. |
||||
| MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
Jazzman [Quote=Downwind]Sometimes it just works Look at what's written below MY name. In my previous post, I was trying to be as kind as possible, not wanting you to become discouraged in all this, but it seems to be getting downright stupid now. This quote takes the cake: "Don't limit yourself to what works when there are so many options out there." So, let me get this straight; are we now to spend our time on the stuff that we know doesn't work? I for one have tons of problems with the stuff that does work. I've no time for pursuing all the stuff that obviously does not. There is a great aggregate of knowledge on this 4m, but you're wearing folks' willingness to help you rather thin with all this insistence on "over-unity". The only thing that approaches over-unity or perpetual motion that I know of is on the scale of the earth's rotation and I've been told even that is decaying. If you want help, everyone here is more than willing. If you want to argue about stuff, you're pushing your luck. "Is anyone working with motors as generators or using pm motors to charge batteries." --- Yes; I am. . . . . . Mac Nothing difficult is ever easy! Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman, "Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!" Copeville, Texas |
||||
| GWatPE Senior Member Joined: 01/09/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
Hi jazzman, If you had come out and said, "I can buy power at an OFF PEAK rate of say 6c/kWhr. My normal power costs 20c/kWhr. Is it cost effective to buy the cheap power and store it in a battery for use later, when the power is more expensive? How can this be achieved? Can this system be supplemented with renewable energy?" Even if you had said "The power is always going OFF. Are there systems that can give me an alternative reliable power supply?" Forum members might have some appropriate comments if asked these sorts of questions. You sound like you hope to make surplus power from your system. Not going to happen! Gordon. PS:- I also use brushless PM motors as generators, but not as "FREE ENERGY" sources. Many years ago I also persued over unity electrical machines. The closest I measured was 99.9%, in a close coupled machine that spun at over 3000RPM, and took over half an hour to slow down when the power lines were disconnected. become more energy aware |
||||
Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5031 |
I'll close this thread now, I think its taken its course. Jazzman as you can see talking about this sort of stuff can very quickly raise some tempers. Its a hot topic, and on other internet forums any posts that suggest what you are suggesting are quickly deleted before the heated discussions start. I have to admit, about 15 years ago I bought a handfull of neo magnets with the intention of building a motor that powers itself. The inside rotor was to have fixed magnets, and the outside shell had magnets that would be flipped over as the inside rotor magnets passed by. I was sure it would work, but as I learned more about physics I eventually realised it could never work, the energy to flip the magnets was more than could be harnesed from the rotor. These days, any suggestion of a motor powered by magnets, gravity, springs or fairy dust is instantly classed as rubbish in my mind. Any plans on the internet, or video's on youtube, that show such a device are lies. There are many laws of physics that tell us why these things cant work, but I like to sum it up as my box theory. The box theory. Draw up a plan for your machine, either simple or detailed, doesnt matter. Draw a box around it. Coming out of the box is the power you wanted. If there is nothing going into the box ( wind, water flow, sun light, fuel, etc ) then it wont work. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
||||
| Page 2 of 2 |
|||||
 Print this page |
