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Forum Index : EV's : ABC EV Article on Trev

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Chopperp

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Posted: 09:17pm 23 Jul 2018
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From ABC News.

Trev
ChopperP
 
Jarbar
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Posted: 12:20am 24 Jul 2018
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Great story Trev, keep up the great work at informing others and your own projects.
"Creativity is detirmined by the way you hold your tounge".My Father
"Your generation will have to correct the problems made by mine".My Grandfather.
 
Gizmo

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Posted: 03:22am 24 Jul 2018
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Very cool!

A lot of what Trev is doing makes perfect sense. Trev drives his electric ute to work every day, I guess over 60km. Been doing it for years now.

If you spend most of your day at home ( home maker, home office ), and you dont need to drive hundreds of km, then a electric car is a smart move. You can charge your electric car from your roof solar. No fuel bills.
People say 2020 is a terrible year, with the bush fires, COVID 19, and riots. But I see it as the year we woke up to ourselves.

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Ralph2k6

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Posted: 10:33am 24 Jul 2018
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Great stuff!
Would be great in rush hour traffic too, as no fumes and minimal consumption while idling slowly along.

Ralph
 
George65
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Posted: 10:56am 25 Jul 2018
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  Gizmo said   You can charge your electric car from your roof solar.


OK if as you say you don't drive much but if you do.....

I see this "charge from your own panels" thing pushed a lot by the green washed. I think most of us here have more than enough knowledge to see what a crock that is for the mainstream.
If you look at what even smaller EV's take to charge them, it's going to take a normal array a week to get them up to speed and then you have no solar for anything else in the home. Of course they way they are packing people into flats and town houses and tiny little cardboard boxes they mislable as houses, there will be a LOT of people whom have no access to enough solar to charge their Phones let alone their vehicle!

I was also reading about the vaporware Tesla truck a couple of days ago. The article looked at capturing I think 30% of the semi truck market and the power that would use.
They came to the conclusion that it would require 3 times the annual power generated in the US now to keep a 30% electric truck fleet on the road and $18Bn to set up the charger network so there was a charge point no further than 200 Miles between one another.

That's a lot of watts!
Also why I think the EV hype is many decades down the track, if it happens at all to become mainstream rather than the 10 years they hype about now.

I think EV's as in this case are great. Much like my own veg oil proclivity. great for some DIYers who CAN provide their own energy to fuel the thing but like veg oil, soon as you start talking any scale, the wheels very quickly fall off.

I have looked at doing an EV myself. I could get loads of suitable vehicles cheap, I have 20KW+ of solar on the roof and wouldn't even need panels with my proclivity for veg fueled generators, but the cost of doing a conversion is still substantial and impossible for me to justify.

I don't see the price of things like batterys coming down at all like they hype. To me it's a ridiculous notion.
Lead acid batterys are made by the millions every year for vehicles alone and the demand grows. Last week in Super cheap I saw decent 4WD batteries well over $200 and a regular battery over $100, getting to 200 for good ones. They haven't got cheaper in decades I have been driving but I'm sure they are producing maybe double or more what they were when I got my licence. The fact does not support the Hype.

As for lithium, a resources already in known short supply along with cobalt, I think it is,If something is in limited supply and demand goes up, it does not get cheaper just because they start making more. That just does not stand up to business principals or behavior. It becomes MORE expensive not cheaper. Yes, you have an initial drop but that does not continue forever. If it did Lead acid batterys would be cheap as chips now but they are not and still a significant expense if you want to power a home, car or anything else with them and they are as far as I know the cheapest storage available.

Frankly I think it's stupid to think batteries will get cheaper when they are the self same thing as oil. Transport will be reliant on them so they will be production controlled to keep the profits high and NOT flood the market which will reduce revenue.... just like the oil economy works now.

I also firmly believe that all this EV talk is nothing but feel good distraction.
There is no way in hell the EV will replace the IC Vehicle while ever there is still oil in the ground in sufficient supply that the oil interests can maintain profits it.
Oil companies are not going to let billions in infrastructure become useless or watch their profits and stock prices Crumble, it's naieve to think they will. They are powerful enough to control world economies now and will continue to do so.

Of course at the end of the day, in all but a few countries, it will take many decades for power production to ramp up enough to meet the energy demands of the road fleet. In Oz we are putting in Diesel Generators now to make up the shortfall of power. Imagine loading even 10% of the energy demands the transport fleet has on the system in 10 years time.

People will be going back to candle light in their homes!

Not rubbishing what the guy here has done at all. Done it myself with veg oil and again, it's the same thing. Great for the occasional individual who represents an infinitesimal percentage of the population but scale it up to any measurable degree and the whole thing falls apart.




 
Boppa
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Posted: 11:53am 25 Jul 2018
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George have you actually looked at Trevs site, or the threads here on the forum?

There is nothing pie in the sky about Ev's like his hilux, it is a registered ute- that still can carry a full tonne payload, plus more on the trailer behind, and his recharge time is nothing like a week... and all done on solar at his house
 
M Del
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Posted: 06:32am 26 Jul 2018
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What Boppa said

Mark
 
George65
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Posted: 06:54am 26 Jul 2018
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  Boppa said   George have you actually looked at Trevs site, or the threads here on the forum?

There is nothing pie in the sky about Ev's like his hilux, it is a registered ute- that still can carry a full tonne payload, plus more on the trailer behind, and his recharge time is nothing like a week... and all done on solar at his house


I'm not knocking his vehicle, it's legitimacy or anything he has done/ does.
What I was commenting on was the idea of EV's becoming mainstream and the way they are overly Hyped up particularly by the greenwashed.

I'll bet A man like Trevor has the experience and knowledge to shoot great holes in a lot of the theories bandied about and would be the sort of guy to be honest and truthful both about the advantages AND limitations of EV's.
 
Boppa
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Posted: 07:06am 26 Jul 2018
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For probably 90% of the population here in Australia, an EV could meet most of their driving needs, and if can be done with solar, then generating requirements wouldnt need to skyrocket
True not EVERY residence is suitable for EV solar demands, but many would be, even if only partially, and every bit of grid tied solar would reduce demand further for more generating capacity
 
Gizmo

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Posted: 07:20am 26 Jul 2018
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What Boppa said

As it says in the article, Trev can charge the ute in a couple of hours from solar. He has enough solar to do that, its basically a super charger.

EV wont suit everyone, but it would be a better option for most. I work from home, I drive the car twice a week, usually a 80km trip. A solar charged EV would suit my circumstances perfectly.
People say 2020 is a terrible year, with the bush fires, COVID 19, and riots. But I see it as the year we woke up to ourselves.

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Boppa
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Posted: 08:03am 26 Jul 2018
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I'm driving daily, but only about 15km each way, so a ute like Trevs would be almost ideal- only thing I would do different is start with a crewcab hilux instead for the ability to carry more than two people (yes I know the single cab is 'technically' 3 people- but have you ever tried it- even a six year old is a squeeze in the middle seat- and dont grab for 2nd, 4th or reverse unless you are very 'close friends'...



Even though it has a much smaller tray area, the batts equal to Trevs ute or even larger, would still leave an area big enough to have a falcon or commodore sized 'boot' area ie it would become a full chassis 'sedan' basically

With his range of 200km, it would only need a recharge once midweek, increase the battery pack size and lose 'cargo' weight ability ie more sedan than ute, and you could probably get that to 300km plus or more
 
George65
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Straight Off there are a couple of things you gents are missing.
The average household here in Oz has more than 2.5 Cars so it's not just a matter of being able to charge 1 a week.

Not sure of the amount of houses that have solar, I think last time I looked it was in the 20 something percentile because a LOT of people live in flats/ units without solar.
Next you'd have to look at how much solar they have. I think the average there is still under 2 Kw. To me, in order to be legit you have to have enough solar to keep powering your home AND charge your vehicle. If you just take the solar from the home and put it into the vehicle and the home is using 100% grid power, you haven't achieved anything.

I would no doubt have enough solar for the limited driving I do and power a significant proportion of my home, in SUMMER, but not many people have 20 Kw on the roof and probably average less than 100 Km week.
And that's another thing right there, when you talk about charging with solar, is that year round or just half the year? it takes a LOT of panels to provide solar for the home and a vehicle being driven everyday in the winter months.

I am talking about the MAINSTREAM fleet being replaced like we keep hearing about on the news, the people that do travel to work every day and travel including considerable distances. Where I am here that would be the majority of people in this area. My wife averages 140 Km a day and there are many like her.

Generating power with solar IS increasing the amount of power generated but the problem is, If you are at work, how do you get the power you generate at home into the Vehicle if you have a regular 9-5, 5 days a week job?

MOST people now and in 10 years time WOULD need to be charging from the grid and that means you are merely substituting one fossil fuel for another because the predictions are that we will still have a Very small proportion of our over all power generated by RE by 2030.
 
Boppa
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Personally I believe you are underestimating the amount of solar available, unfortunately figures arent that easy to come by, but S.A. has its residential solar actually exports power to the grid during most of the day ie their consumption is less than their generation

Like I said, not everyone has the roof space to do it, but thats the advantage of having a broad uptake of solar (in my area its nearly 100% in the entire suburb, every house has panels and many of them are large 5kw arrays, most of the older smaller installs were upgraded before the libs solar rebate BS started up)
With enough solar, it is a distributed generation, spread out over large areas, meaning those unable to put solar up are being subsidised by those that can, and the need for new generating plants is still reduced

Of course this is the exact opposite of the libs 'burn baby burn' energy plan (deleted rant...grrrrr...)
Edited by Boppa 2018-07-27
 
George65
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  Boppa said   Personally I believe you are underestimating the amount of solar available, unfortunately figures arent that easy to come by,


That's for sure!
I take any supposed facts or figures with a big grain of salt and look at the source VERY closely when it comes to anything renewable/ Green. I do not trust anything that comes from the greenwashed one bit because repeatedly it is misleading if not an outright lie. They have a demonstrated propensity to stop at nothing to push their agenda and try and brainwash others as to their religion.

I think the over all amount of RE on a national basis is well under 20% at the present time.


  Quote   but S.A. has its residential solar actually exports power to the grid during most of the day ie their consumption is less than their generation


I think that may be possible but again, particularly anything to do with SA and their greenwashed former gubbermint I take anything with a grain of salt.
I'm not sure of the amount of industry in SA but last time I looked into it, there were a lot of industries ready to abandon the place because the power supply was not reliable. you are talking about a place that carried on about how green it was and not using any FF generation in the state while they were importing FF power from other states and replacing the coal fired power stations they made great fuss of blowing up with Diesel generators of which they said nothing at all about.

  Quote   but thats the advantage of having a broad uptake of solar (in my area its nearly 100% in the entire suburb, every house has panels and many of them are large 5kw arrays,


That's great! Where are you?

I had a discussion with a Psuedo green puppet a couple of months back about this. He is employed by a supposedly renewable energy association here but was arguing AGAINST mandatory panels on each new home Built. when I asked him why, he went on with a lot of crap about the grid not being up to it and the damage to the power industry and other things that were all about protecting the power industry and screw the little guy.

I did a bit of digging and found he was formerly employed by the power industry association and his recent work for this supposedly green mob was doing studies and reports for power industry interests. Talk about a Shill! About as underhanded and sly as could be. typically, he talks about how wonderful he is and his low footprint and all that crap then you find he has all of 1.5 Kw of solar on his roof, and while bragging about his homes low power consumption, you discover that the place is using as much gas as a crematorium. typical slight of hand.

This guy is as bought and sold as they come on both sides of the fence and about as interested in the welfare families and the average guy in the street as the average mega corp CEO. He's far from alone however and many of the greenwashed one finds with just a little digging are every bit as hypocritical.

My position is that most of the greenwashing is a load of crap and nothing more than profit driven by big biz and gubbermints.
I am for LEGITIMATE ( and that's a fcing rare thing) benefits to the world and am NOT against Fossil fuels.

What I am for is the best and most practical solution's to present and near future problems. Solar is great, I have more of it than most BUT, it's not the be all and end all as so many want to push as their single minded fanatic religion.
Solar is great when the sun shines and wind is great when it blows but they both have SERIOUS Limitations.

My view is rather than being in the gut busting , typical " Want it all NOW" mentality of a lot of this age, we should make sound and practical progress using ALL the resources we have to provide a stable and reliable energy supply.
When the sun is shining, sure, turn down the generators and use the solar. When the sun starts dropping or the clouds come over and it rains, crank up the coal. I have read many saying it's not that simple but that again is more BS and the ability to do it these days and move power round IS there and it IS done all the time.

The greenwashed should not bitch and sook because not every watt of power was " green", be happy that an amount of it which can be scaled up as funds and technology allow, WAS green and emmissions free and all that and one day, that goal will be reached and accept that saying you want it done in 10 or however many years is putting the religion before the practicality of the matter.

People bitch about what FF generation puts into the environment but they hide and stick their heads up their arses when it comes to being honest about what the RE supply requires in the manufacture and installation of the components needed for that. Re is useless without batteries and if anyone thinks the only thing that comes from producing them is rainbows and unicorn farts they are just re confirming their stupidity and hypocrisy. EVERYTHING we do has a consequence these days and there are NO free rides.

Sooking about renewable energy now and for a long time in the future is complete hypocrisy. If people want RE so bad, Fine, do it without using one drop of the fossil fuel they bitch about so loudly. NOTHING is renewable atm because you can't do squat without relying on fossil fuel. It's like picking a fight with another fighter but demanding he teach you how to beat him. You want to take him on, then do it on your own not relying on the one you disparage as the sworn enemy.

The world IS reliant on FF and that being the case, accept the situation and be happy for them to work together not make out one is the work of the devil and the other is Holier than all the saints put together. Reality is what is needed to address this issue not BS and fantasy that put profit beyond all else as a noble excuse.


  Quote  With enough solar, it is a distributed generation, spread out over large areas, meaning those unable to put solar up are being subsidised by those that can, and the need for new generating plants is still reduced.


I agree completely and this is one exact reason I say the whole green thing is a crock.
If these power companies and their gubbermint bum chums were fair dinkum about saving the planet and all that, there wouldn't be limitations on how much you can export from your solar and it would be mandatory for each new suitable building to have solar installed. Excuses about the inadequacy of the grid handling the power are complete Rubbish.
Most of it is BS and what is not can easily be fixed and the cost taken from handouts that are now given to other big biz who want to build solar and wind farms which they will charge for and profit from. Instead of upsetting ecosystems with these big solar farms, use the space already available on rooftops. There is nothing more efficent than generating power where it will be used rather than importing it 1000 Km from the dessert or somewhere.

If I look at my own location where there is a fair bit of solar, not far from the houses in the wider area there is the town. No solar there but plenty of Businesses sucking down power. a little further out, a big industrial area with some heavy industry and power users. Less than 1 KM from me there is a huge retirement village I have noticed is devoid of a single panel but would consume significant power and right next to that there is the treatment works. these entitiys alone could such down all the power every place could generate if they had solar on their roofs within a 10 KM radius.

To say that having too many people generating solar power is a problem is a crock and as you point out, in other places they champion the fact they are self sufficient.
Despite that, a huge area of the eastern seaboard is limited to 5Kw backfeed on single and sometimes 3 phase circuits and there are getting stricter limits in some parts lowering the backfeed again.

It's not about the grid at all, it's about the fact the whole green crock is great for making revenue but they don't want to allow a thing that takes money out their pockets. they have to allow solar to a degree because it's political suicide if they don't but they want to keep a lid on the profit loss and revenue.


  Quote  Of course this is the exact opposite of the libs 'burn baby burn' energy plan (deleted rant...grrrrr...)


For power co's and gubbermints to say they are concerned with the environment is a joke I don't get how people are stupid enough to fall for and to point out one political party as in all else are just as self interested and piss poor at running a chook raffle let alone a country, is also pathetically Naieve.

they are ALL interested in one thing and one thing only, extracting the most money they can from you without sending you past the tipping point and hopefully pulling the wool over your eyesthat they are better than the other mongerels who want to do the exact same thing.

there are 100 things that can be done that would do the environment Measurable, real, instant and no cost benefits. The problem with these things and why you never hear about them is because they make the vested interests NO money.
Everything mainstream and green costs you more.

If they were concerned about saving the planet and all that malarkey, we would have had laws requiring panels on every new practical rooftop at least 5 years ago.
Only reason that hasn't happened is because they know it would loose big biz and their gubbermint buddies money and that's not what politics or the green movement is about.


There's my rant, I'd be interested to read yours as it seems there is a good chance I might learn something and you may give me worthwhile things to think about.
 
Gizmo

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"Greenwashed", seriously. What term do we have for those that think the world should run on coal, the "Coalwashed". Is coalwashed the opposite of greenwashed, and is there no in between?

Fact is, there is a dirty big grey area between the two extremes, where most of us live. I went off grid because when I tried to get the power connected, it was going to cost me $12,000, plus a 6 month wait! That $12,000 instead bought my solar panels, batteries and inverter, and I had it up and running in a few days. Looking at current prices and unreliability of grid power, I'm now glad I went down that path. Am I a hippy greenie tree hugger? NO! Do I care about the environment and promote renewable power? You bet! Do I want to shut down the existing coal power stations? No. Do I think we need to build more coal power stations? No! Do I trust a politician who says opening a new coal power station will drop prices? No! Do I depend on the coal industry for my income? Yes.

So like most people, my views on the matter are not black and white, I'm in between.

Calling people who like EV's, renewable power, etc, "greenwashed" is insulting. Most of us made a informed decision to use renewable power, or buy a EV. It makes sense, and not for some friggen religious devotion to the greens.

The world is changing, like it or not, and its headed towards renewables. So either get on the band wagon, or get out of the way.

I was talking to my electrician about this yesterday. Next month he's going on a course on solar installation and off grid systems, because he's had a lot of his customers ask about going off grid. He said the main reason his customers want to go off grid is the price and unreliability of grid power, the environment is a secondary issue. And this is the Darling Downs, one of the most pro coal right wing area's in Australia. Are these people "greenwahsed"?
People say 2020 is a terrible year, with the bush fires, COVID 19, and riots. But I see it as the year we woke up to ourselves.

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George65
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  Gizmo said  

Fact is, there is a dirty big grey area between the two extremes, where most of us live.


I agree and these are NOT the people I am talking about. I am surprised you take offense at what I say and have not figured out the obvious profile that the ggreenwashed term fits.

These are the people that are single minded that everything has to be green NOW!
Like the ones that want to blow up coal power stations because they are coal and without regard to where the power they provide will come from to replace them. Like the ones that carry on about wanting all IC vehicles banned in citys NOW, when there is no replacement for them. I'm talking about the ones that are largely hypocrites championing everything renewable but then using the fossil fuel they protest as soon as it suits them.

The green-washed are the ones that habitually lie, exaggerate and misrepresent anything they think serves their agenda and there are a LOT of them out there in various groups and in the media as well. Like the ones that write glowing Drivel about Tesla's Big blattery and how it was built in ( under) 100 days when that is just plain Poppy cock.
they are also the ones that get on alternative energy forums and carry on like alternative and green are the exact same thing and if you don't regard them as so, then you are an environmental terrorist.

I too am in the middle as you put it. I use solar to offset the bills in my all electric home and I have no problem with coal, gas or liquid fossil fuels because right now they ARE what we depend on in EVERYTHING we make or do.


  Quote   Am I a hippy greenie tree hugger? NO!


And it would never cross my mind to call anyone in your position and have done what you have anything bar sensible.
It's exactly what I'm talking about. When solar, wind or whatever else RE is convenient, fits the bill and provides an offset to Fossil fuel, of course use it. If it does not, don't get in a hissy fit like the green washed do who are never happy even with their own RE ideas.

Can't put a solar farm here because it will kill the rare Mosquitoes, can't put wind turbine up because they kill 10 Sparrows a year, god forbid you even think of building a dam for hydro!! If you don't know and understand the greenwashed types I am talking about, then I think you haven't paid a lot of attention to what's going on.

  Quote   So like most people, my views on the matter are not black and white, I'm in between.


As am I and was my point exactly.
It does not need to be all one or the other, do what is the best solution that provides stable, economic and reliable power for our modern world.
Anyone that thinks all Fossil fuel should be done away with right now and has a problem with anything not RE or green is a greenwashed zealot.
It's about compromise and what is right for the job.

SA has proven that eliminating all FF power at this time is neither practical, reliable or a remotely smart thing to do. The goal needs to be met gradually not for a lot of loudmouths to be screaming everything has to go this way NOW.... Or out grand children won't have a planet to live on and all that crap.

  Quote   Calling people who like EV's, renewable power, etc, "greenwashed" is insulting.


I agree but I didn't do that and if you interpreted I did, you made a mistake.
I have mentioned several times I have 20 Kw of solar on my roof, why would I accuse others of being greenwashed when I use RE and do the same myself ?
I'm not too bright but I try very hard to not be what I hate most which is a hypocrite.

Greenwashed is a narrow minded zealot that thinks EVERYTHING has to be Green from power and fuel on and makes a song and dance if they don't. I got 3 Petrol cars and one diesel in the driveway I run on veg oil and have for 16 years. I'm not one track minded at all.

  Quote   Most of us made a informed decision to use renewable power, or buy a EV. It makes sense,


I could put a very strong argument up for the sense of BUYING an EV because they are NOT economical at all and I have crunched the numbers here and OS that Prove that.
Much of the advertising for them being cheaper to run is a complete and utter lie. If you are interested I can illustrate that perfectly from tesla's own web pages with their own numbers.

Building a one off EV is likely different but buying an EV for economic reasons these days will only be so to a VERY thin slice of the population.
I wouldn't mind an EV myself but they make no financial sense to me and as far as save the planet, I have been doing that for a long time now with my Veg fueled diesel that runs on 100% waste product.


  Quote   So either get on the band wagon, or get out of the way.


Sorry, but that IS a very green-washed thing to say. Sounds very PC like only one correct way to think. If you consider the problem of energy and RE endeavors to be riding on a bandwagon, then that severely undermines a very serious human endeavors credibility to me.
Bandwagons are what the nutters like all the greenwashed of about 12 years ago went on with carrying on we should grow crops to replace All motor fuels and made a big eal about that when it was Clear from the start it was never going to be a viable solution. None the less, it was seen as being green and saving the planet so they wanted to push on with it regardless it if were remotely logical or not.


  Quote   He said the main reason his customers want to go off grid is the price and unreliability of grid power,


Unless his customers are in a situation like you with exorbitant connection costs, they are going to be very dissapointed when and if they work out that they cannot make power cheaper than you can buy it from the grid no matter what the price.
That's a pretty well known and widely accepted fact.

Reliability may be another issue but if grid is available as a normal hook up with out the line charges such as you had, then the grid is still the cheapest form of power. Even If I get a Diesel generator and run it on free Veg oil, the cost of the unit, maintence and likley repairs will still work out more exy over it's life of the KWH generated than what I could buy the power from the grid for.
 
Boppa
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I suspect you arent quite as even minded about this as you seem to think you are, but anyway, EV's are here to stay, and the EV business is booming, China being one of the biggest markets, where last year alone 3/4 million new EVs hit the street, this year they are expecting over a million to be registered, in the last 3 years, 1 1/2 million new EVs hit the streets
They are currently nearly 400 (!!!!) EV vehicle manufacturers in China, building everything from EV microcars to EV trucks and buses... with some Chinese cities looking to ban IC cars entirely from inside the city limits
 
George65
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China sells more cars than the Japs by a long shot but there are not a lot in the western world due to differences in standards of safety and Public acceptance for 2 things.

I suspect the real influence in the EV market will be from the traditional western suppliers. Jag has the Ipace ready to go, Gm, ford and toymota are all working on vehicles. Tesla Claims to have been the first with modern affordable EV's but like every other blowhard claim they make, I think that's a crock.

It is ridicilous to think that The big 3 and the likes of Toymoter would not have their finger on the pulse and be looking at market demand first and foremost. I think the Tesla hype did create a lot of the demand but thee would have been little point producing more Ev's when Gm Already had and couldn't sell the things in worthwhile Qty.

I don't think tesla will be around for long into the future. They have the market to themselves right now and still can't get their act together. Like I saw a couple of weeks ago, a Tweet by Musk " 5000 cars a week, teams Tesla"
The Ford Ceo countered with " 5000 cars, circa 4 hours, team Ford".
And that puts it well in perspective.

Forgetting all the other many massive problems Tesla has, once the Might, experience and brand loyality of the other manufacturers is brought to bear and leveraged on the market, Tesla is going to be swamped and the Social Media hype musk relies so heavily on is just not going to be near enough.

The big question is though, If all these EV's are dropped on the market in a fairly short time, will and how are power grids going to hold up? If once converts the energy used by the vehicle fleet into KWH, even if the Vehicles have better efficency, the amount of power in electrical power they consume is incredible.

It's also going to be as I said at the start, largely a case of going from one FF to another. there won't be much sun at night when people come home to charge these EVS and here the amount of wind power is both virtually insignificant and unreliable.
Where is all this extra energy going to come from if we DON'T build more coal fired stations? Big battery banks? Again, convert the amount of energy stored in the big battery into the amount of energy supplied by liquid Fossil fuel now every day and you see it's a scratch. What was the price of the Big battery? $54 Millor something?

What is all this extra demand for power going to do to power prices? It sure as hell won't lower them that's for sure. As the idea goes to charge at night during off peak, with all these Vehicles sucking down even 10 Kw, there isn't going to be any off peak for long and the lower price may well become 9-3 or something when the solar is being made and the cars aren't being charged.

By comparison, as the consumption of oil drops, it's highly likely the price will become lower. That may offset the uptake of Ev's as one of their biggest ( flawed) claims is they are cheaper to run than an IC. Wait till it comes out in the mainstream that's a lie. An EV may be cheaper to charge than an IS is to fill up but that's the smoke and mirrors figure. The one that needs to be looked at is cost per mile and lifetime cost of the vehicle in question.

Again the EV greenwashed go on ad nasuem about things like " No oil changes" as if that costs $1000 and is needed to be done every week. They fail to mention that EV's do in fact need oil changes and servicing as well and the costs of that do not work out cheaper than IC vehicle servicing. Do people REALLY think the car makers are going to do a Kodak and invent and push a product that will do them out of the thing they really make money out of, servicing and parts?
Are they that naieve?

Have a look at what servicing a Tesla costs. Look at how they Big brother you into having the thing serviced, by them and only them, or they can turn the car off and claim it's for safety reasons. It will go like JD tractors now that are so computer controlled you can't even change the oil yourself without the factory tech plugs in, gives the thing the OK and charges you a fortune to do it and can take weeks for them to come out or book you in.

I'm very interested to see how people with all these EV's that will supposedly be on the roads in just 5 years are going to go at Christmas when they head off for Holidays.

I head North from sydney to Visit my Dad. At the half way mark there are a couple of servos and a Maccas. The servos have 20 pumps ea. in peak time these servos are full and people are waiting out on the road.
If we say it takes 5 min for the average fuel up, then they service 100 cars an hour.

Now if those 100 Cars are electric and take an hour to charge up again each, there is going to need to be 100 charging stations. that's going to take a LOT of space. Certainly more than these places have available now.

And what about the power consumption? they are going to need at least 80 Kw to do the hour turn around. if they do say 50 KW, that's going to be 5MW needed to go into that one charging station. And of course now the time has blown out and the number of vehicles catered for lowered.

And that's one station. Chances are, there will be many stations coming off the one feeder line from the main sub station. How much extra load is that station that may have 10 or 50 points connected going to need to deliver? What's more, what about the cars going on all the other main roads South and west as well all at peak time?

It's going to be a massive amount of energy and it's pretty obvious, solar just ain't going to cut it.... especially at Easter when you can bet your backside it's going to be cloudy if not raining.

If refueling takes a while now at holiday time, just wait till EV's really hit their stride.

The reality is, despite the avalance of new EV models, Predictions are still that the total number of EV's on the road will be under 40% in 20 years time. Of course in 20 years, a lot of other things can happen and it's entirely possible that another technology may come along and make Electric obsolete.
hydrogen is not dead in the water yet and some companies like Honda are putting as much or more into that as they are EV's.

The one thing is for sure, it's going to be an interesting ride.
I may just live long enough to see if Ev's live up to anything like their hype or like other ideas for replacing oil in the past, they fall flat on their face.

Maybe someone will perfect Teleportation and we won't need vehicles at all?
Of course whether big biz and gubbermints would even allow that is a whole different and unlikely story.
 
Revlac

Guru

Joined: 31/12/2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 342
Posted: 11:02am 28 Jul 2018
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I know EV's are not for everyone at this point in time due to many factors already presented , I would like one myself not because of any green or environmental aspect and BS etc.
1 car here and it gets used about once a week +/-70km most of the time, would be nice to do that with electric, it could be done, but at this time I cannot justify the cost of batteries to justify doing this in my situation and therefore stuck with FF.
Most things I do is dictated by affordability.

Now from My point of view the biggest issue is Energy storage, too expensive and not enough of it, anyone with plenty of solar can produce plenty of solar power on any decent sunny day and often can produce much excess power, but have no (practical) way to store all that power.

I use a solar powered bore pump instead of the diesel pump to fill the water storage tanks (used for the garden) it can run all day and any day it is needed, if i added more tanks i would have more water storage to use for what ever.
As for batteries for an EV it would be nice if i could follow the same principle, but I cannot.
Electric forklifts have been around for years most of them have a descent size battery bank and can run most of the day, if that battery bank was not enough to continue all day or maybe it is needed for night shift or something, it wold not be a big issue (I expect)to change the battery and put in one that was charged and get it going again.
At this time it is too expensive to buy 2 or 3 sets of batteries for an EV to do the swap and go, like we used to do with torch batteries.
Have some batteries charging while out using the others.
We will be stuck with using FF for a bit longer yet as every thing is dictated.
A fleet of of EV's trucks/Buses would require a different approach.
Hmmm.

I'm rattling on a bit.

Cheers Aaron
Off The Grid
 
renewableMark

Guru

Joined: 09/12/2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 1564
Posted: 01:16pm 28 Jul 2018
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I have carefully mapped out the roof where my little family live.
The most I can squeeze on the area will be around 10 kw.
That will just be enough to power the house in Melbourne winter (hopefully).
So that leaves no room for charging an EV except for summer or better solar days.
I need my work dual cab ute to be able to do sometimes 200km a day, that would be pretty hard job on batteries and a charging system.

I think an EV with it's own generator is a brilliant idea for lower km drivers.

Use solar sourced EV when possible, but when impracticable the on board gen set kicks in and supplements the power. An air cooled low maintenance generator could charge you up to acceptable level for the trip home. Some kind of software could calculate a trips use and keep the gen running for a required time for longer trips.
Having that backup would be a big confidence booster for EV's and increase their practicality.
Lets say you drove 200km to the country, spent some time having lunch, looking at sites etc, meanwhile your genset was charging your batteries up for the trip home.
During the week you won't need this as you might have a 10km drive to work.
Just a thought.

I also think EV 4wd's would be great too.
Many people look at locking diff's or traction control.
But if you had a electric motor for each wheel that would surpass all technology on the market now, and no oil changes or radiator problems, etc, etc.

Elec drive line with IC backup seems like a good idea to me.
Cheers Caveman Mark
Off grid eastern Melb
 
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