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Forum Index : EV's : ABC EV Article on Trev

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Warpspeed
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Joined: 09/08/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 3261
Posted: 02:47pm 28 Jul 2018
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It would seem that EVs are more suited to a warm sunny climate.

In winter, even in oZ a heater and demister are going to suck a lot of battery power as there is no other source of heat in an EV.

I see more of a future for hybrids rather than straight electric.Edited by Warpspeed 2018-07-30
Cheers, Tony.
 
George65
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Joined: 18/09/2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 308
Posted: 03:14pm 28 Jul 2018
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  renewableMark said  

Elec drive line with IC backup seems like a good idea to me.


They are available now, they are called Hybrids.

Not quite the way you describe but people in the states have been modding priarses for a long time now. They add batteries to extend the electric capability and put in an external charging port so batteries can be charged from the grid or other means such as solar.

In the next generation of hybrids, we may see vehicles like this available from the factory.

I was reading an article a while back about the way EV's would change the industry. They were saying a lot of repair places would go out of business because the Electric thing gives manufacturers the perfectability to " Vendor Lock" the vehicles so any service work or replaced parts has to be done by the dealer. JD have this with their tractors where every major part has a chip that the computer reads before the thing will start. Even if you use cheaper aftermarket parts, you have to get a dealer tech out to code the part to the computer so the thing will run.

On the other side they were talking about new opportunities that would be created. A great one I thought was a Charging service for those that ran out of power. Much like bringing fuel to those that run out of petrol, said vehicles would have an onboard genny and charge the flat vehicle up so it could get to a charging station or home.

Once again the renewable emissions free vehicles are going to have to rely on FF to get them working.

The interchangeable battery thing was proposed a long time ago but of course each manufacturer has a different idea on best battery technologys, voltages and most of all packaging. Teslas for instance have the batterys all down in the skateboard section of the vehicle so taking that in and out is a BIG job. Toyot's have theirs behind seats and others are looking to put them in other places around the vehicle.

No one seems to want to standardise to make the swap and go initiative a practical one.

As for the Multiple motors, Pretty sure that will come in. Tesla already uses 3 in some of it's cars. Putting individual motors on the front wheels has handling advantages. you can set up steering and G sensors to aid handling by simply determining whifch way the car is going and add a bit of power to the inside wheel to pull it into and through the corner.
Ic cars like AWD Bentlys, Lambos and even humble Subaru's do this now.

I am a big fan of AWD cars. I concede it is overkill a lot of the time for normal Suburban Driving but when it rains, you get out on a dirt road, for towing and more demanding situations, there is no beating it.
Mate always used to make fun of my slow 4wd compared to his 350Kw monster V8. I commented once on how he had to replace the 2nd diff and how my car had 500K+ km on the original. His rebuttal was " Yeah, but your Diff don't have 350 kilo screwing through it.

He stopped making fun of it when we were at a horse event and his big monster couldn't pull the 3 ton horse float off the soft grass. I told him to unhook the trailer and I'd Pull it onto the road for him. He didn't want to do that and said well probably a waste of time but hook to the front of the car and pull it all out. I warned I took no responsibility if the car got longer or I ripped the front of the thing out but he said see how You go. Backed up, Hooked on , low range and just walked the whole lot out with no effort at all.

An electric 4WD/ SUV would have great advantages over an IC with it's ability to produce full torque at Zero revs. Gaurantee first one to make something li9ke that with decent range will do well out of them.
 
renewableMark

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Joined: 09/12/2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 1564
Posted: 09:28pm 28 Jul 2018
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Correct me if this is wrong, but don't hybrids now run basically normal IC engine and driveline with electric to assist and use when coasting?

All of that could be eliminated with just elec driveline, no gearbox, no clutch,no radiator etc etc.
Designing one up from scratch without all the IC driveline and an onboard gen would be a good option I reckon.

If you talk to any 4 wheel driver, the first thing they ask you " you got front and back lockers?"
A motor in each wheel would make an awesome 4WD and no driveline to worry about.
Think about all the weight saved from the motor, gearbox, diffs, driveshafts, uni joints, cv joints.
And with only wires going to each wheel you could raise or lower the vehicle easily, lowering it for everyday road use and raise it when tackling rough stuff.
And the reliability would be fantastic.
Cheers Caveman Mark
Off grid eastern Melb
 
Warpspeed
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Joined: 09/08/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 3261
Posted: 10:39pm 28 Jul 2018
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  renewableMark said   Correct me if this is wrong, but don't hybrids now run basically normal IC engine and driveline with electric to assist and use when coasting?[/quote]

Many different types of hybrids around now with vastly different design philosophies. Some are basically a small electric vehicle with a petrol engine that only cuts in occasionally.
Some of the fastest super cars in the world now have extremely powerful petrol engines and use electric motors and batteries as well to create incredible bursts of acceleration. Nothing green about that...

[quote]
If you talk to any 4 wheel driver, the first thing they ask you " you got front and back lockers?"
A motor in each wheel would make an awesome 4WD

For some things perhaps, but not for extreme off road.

There is one big advantage of locking all the differentials, you can feed all of the low range torque into just one wheel if necessary. This is important for rock climbing for example where one wheel might get wedged between two boulders.
With four electric motors and no extra super low range gearing, it would not be anywhere nearly as good.

It would be much more ideal for a light duty on road 4WD though, many of those around, I drive one myself.
Cheers, Tony.
 
George65
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Joined: 18/09/2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 308
Posted: 12:30am 29 Jul 2018
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  renewableMark said  

All of that could be eliminated with just elec driveline, no gearbox, no clutch,no radiator etc etc.


You would still have have the IC engine and a generator and a LOT of control Circuitry and wiring etc. The engine and generator would have to be able to supply the power consumed by the motors at least up to a certain speed and torque for hill climbing etc. if the thing was to be able to carry on with the power from the engine when it had flat batteries.

The problem of Long distance/ Holiday travel could be over come with a trailer that housed the generator plant/ fuel tank and gave some extra space for luggage.
Then again, what's the cost of such a setup going to be along with rego etc to sit there most of the year and drink the devils fuel anyway?

Ic's aren't going to dissappear until the EV's are well enough established and advanced so recharging is as quick and easy as it is to refuel now.


  Quote   Designing one up from scratch without all the IC driveline and an onboard gen would be a good option I reckon.


May be but the auto makers would spend at least a Million Bucks crunching numbers on market research to see how many people would be interested in buying such a vehicle and what they would be prepared to pay. May be a good idea but that would be irrelevant compared to how many people would want something like that and be prepared to pay for it.

With IC's, Hybrids and straight ev's, It may be a bit too niche market.... or might be a real winner. Could be great for first time EV buyers who are afraid of running out of power and marketed as something like "It will always get you home" .
Then again if the Road side assistance mobs start putting in road side chargers OR, the manufacturer offers such a service, probably going to satisfy that need.

This highlights a great advantage of the IC vehicle. Great range and very speedy ability to refuel at unlimited places. I wonder how long it will take for power to be available on the Nullabor and what it would cost seeing it would have to be FF generated.

The other thing Ev's are going to have to come to terms with is towing.
That's really going to kill the range just as it does with IC's Difference is, you can stop and refuel an IC every 300KM and it's not a big deal. Couple of stops in an ev adding 2 hours to a long trip or more will be.

  Quote  
Think about all the weight saved from the motor, gearbox, diffs, driveshafts, uni joints, cv joints.


Think of all the weight gained in the batteries!
Pure EVS on average weight significantly MORE than IC counterparts. That tends to cancel out the weight reduction from the IC driveline. There are also extra considerations like heat sinks, controllers and relays, thick, heavy wiring and motors for AC, heaters etc.

Ev's are NOT lightweight and all I have read up about tend to have more weight in the driveline than IC's.

You would still need Drive shafts and CV's as again every EV I have seen has them.
Bolting the motor directly to the struts would mean they were hammered with every bump in the road and be a lot of extra unsprung weight which is what every manufacturer tries hard to get away from for a bunch of reasons.
You also need room for a mechanical brake even if the thing does have regenerative like the Ipace. Most of it's braking is just lifting off the throttle but you still need the ability to mechanically lock that wheel if required.
 
Gizmo

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Joined: 05/06/2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 4799
Posted: 12:51am 29 Jul 2018
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You know, I was going to write up a post correcting a lot of the miss information posted here. But then I considered how the person doing the posting has stated they distrust anything from the renewable or left wing side of the argument, and how anyone who adopts this change in energy is "greenwashed". So anything I say will be considered a lie, despite how clearly I explain it. And I considered how in the past I've had to explain to the same person on more than one occasion I'm not a "greenie".

Whats the point. My GP and my eye doctor have told I need to remove stress from my life, so I will.
People say 2020 is a terrible year, with the bush fires, COVID 19, and riots. But I see it as the year we woke up to ourselves.

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