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Forum Index : EV's : Aust’s first manufactured electric car

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dwyer
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Joined: 19/09/2005
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Posted: 02:05am 31 Mar 2019
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-31/two-seater-electric-van-called-the-cargo-being-built-in-a-log/10953382 as i wish them all the best
 
Gizmo

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Posted: 02:30am 31 Mar 2019
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Its a start, hope they get the support they need.

People say 2020 is a terrible year, with the bush fires, COVID 19, and riots. But I see it as the year we woke up to ourselves.

JAQ Software
 
Boppa
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Posted: 05:26am 31 Mar 2019
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Saw that earlier, shame they dont put details in...
:-(
I went right through their website, press releases etc and there is zip about range, weight carrying capabilities, recharge times, the unimportant things you don't know...
 
Boppa
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Posted: 10:22am 31 Mar 2019
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Found some

Drive range on one charge 150 – 200km at partial load
Lower fleet greenhouse emissions by over 70%*
Home charging period – maximum 8 hours
Lower running costs by up to 85%*
0-50km/h acceleration in under 7sec
Maximum speed 100km/h
Maximum pay load 500kg

Price around $40k
range is a little low imho for a delivery vehicle and there is no price on the city commuter yet- personally I would have aimed at at least a 200km range at full load and I suppose the price will drop after they have amortised some of the initial setup cost
 
domwild
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Joined: 16/12/2005
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Posted: 09:22am 24 Apr 2019
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Certainly cheaper than the Hyundai Kina (electric) with $60,000!
Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up.

Winston Churchill
 
Trev

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Joined: 15/07/2006
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Posted: 10:12am 01 Dec 2019
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Yes I have seen parts of this vehicle at an EV show I was in. The body is injection molded plastic glued together. Was good to have a chat with CEO Greg McGarvie.
https://www.ace-ev.com.au/
Trev @ http://www.thebackshed.com/basiclynatural/
 
Davo99
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Posted: 10:51pm 01 Dec 2019
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It would be good to see these things become a reality however the hurdles in the car manufacturing industry in this country  particularly are huge.
I'm betting Tesla will be gone inside 3 years as the Majors ramp up their offerings and start deluging the market in new models.

Whatever technical advantage Tesla may or may not have won't be enough to cover come the problems with parts, servicing and repairs they have experienced for a long time now nor be able to compete with established dealer networks from the majors around the world.

Getting a new brand up and running will be a herculean task even if they are only a small company which will exercabate the problems.

I'm left to wonder if this isn't more of an investment R&D type investment generator than anything that has a serious chance of getting up and producing Vehicles.  
I'll believe it when I see them driving down the road. :0)
 
Boppa
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Posted: 04:45am 02 Dec 2019
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One of the biggest issues is that the entire western world's manufacturers are all trying to play catchup- Tesla has popularised the idea of an EV (but quite frankly is way to high an initial price- even the base models are very expensive)

You still can't buy a EV truck, bus or delivery vehicle from any major western firms, yet quite cheap and effective cars, trucks, buses etc have been available in the Chinese market for literally years, most of their efforts were aimed to the internal Chinese market and simply they had no interest (at that point) of even bothering with the external markets

Sure a few snuck out (the Sydney Big Blue buses for example, they have a fleet of them on the roads- 450 to 500km range, first started service in 2016, the same company BYD have a huge market with EV taxi's- some of which are now being finally retired- after nearly ten years of service!!!

(to put their experience in perspective, in 2018, the Chinese were registering more new EV's in a single month, than Tesla sold worldwide- for the entire year...)

You want an dual steer, rear bogie electric dump truck- well you won't find one from any western company yet, but you will see them working in China, slap down the cash and drive off, available in a variety of configurations from small delivery trucks, to large heavy duty dump trucks...
The west has a LOT of catching up to do before they even get close to whats already on the market in China...
 
Davo99
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Posted: 05:38am 02 Dec 2019
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I think the other thing with EV's is they are still very niche market despite the hype trying to downplay that and make out everyone wants one.  I have spoken to a lot of people about them and am yet to hear of anyone that has desire for one atm.

I have found a LOT of resistance to them in the country where a lot of people think they are a complete joke and are admittedly frequently Mis informed. One has to also take into account a percentage , and not as small as one might assume, still think automatic transmissions are too troublesome and use vast more amounts of fuel.

I have always said public opinion is often 20-30 years behind reality and I find this no more typified than in the Automotive world. It would be easy to dismiss this as being a belief of ignorant and not too smart people but I personally know of 2 Different people ( and their wives/ Families) that are like this and they are well educated, smart and one of them is quite wealthy.

While I admit that a lot of the resistance I have heard to EV's is ignorance/ misinformation, there is also a very significant factor to people being quite happy with what they have now. As one person I spoke to laughed about the claims of them being smooth, He said nothing that drives on any road round here is going to be smooth and he does have a point.

People just don't have any problems with their Vehicles now they are looking for a solution to that would make them want to change.  Certainly like everything there is a resistance to change but that's different to a MOTIVATION to change and especially to an unknown commodity.

I equate EV's ATM to be similar to home batteries. They are touted to save you money but given the purchase cost amortised against savings over the units life, they really don't save you any money at all. With EV's there might be particular cases where they do but for the majority of Joe averages... Nup.

I have severe reservations if EV's will ever become the mainstream Type vehicle as touted. I have said this before in other places and been shouted down but then those doing the shoutings's own figures they pulled all agreed with what I had said that there was no way they would become mainstream ( 51%+) of the vehicle fleet in 20 years time. Part of the reason for my position on this is because 1, I think the idea of battery prices coming down to a level many suggest is fantasy.

What product in huge demand with a shortage of supply that is predicted to get worse rather than better with a limited raw material supply from only a couple of sources in politicaly unstable places has ever got Cheaper?  Already the production cost factor has been lowered to it's end point, where else would the savings come from?

Secondly, as demand for Petro fuels declines, it will become cheaper in order to maintain it's markets and profits.  The cost of fuel now has nothing at all to do with production cost, it's more than anything else pulled out of the air and agreed to by cartels.  If anyone things the trillions tied up in infrastructure is simply going to be allowed to be mothballed and forgotten about, I think they have a poor understanding of big business.

Ev's would have to go a VERY long way to truly replace the IC vehicle and that is decades away at least.  I saw a test with a tesla recently towing a Caravan well under it's towing limit.  Range fell from around 450 KM to  180.  Having to stop every 160 KM to recharge is not practical. Sure, Might be an hour on a supercharger but there is no where here I'm aware of you can find superchargers every 160 KM.
Yeah, maybe one day on major highways but not in the remote areas for at least another 30 years plus.

There is also the HUGE question of power supply. That's a Big IF in this country today with power cos unable to provide enough power to run air conditioners during the day when there is significan't solar input.  Demand now on the power stations is HIGHER at night than through the day. The idea of people charging EV's at nigh on cheap off peak power is a fantasy and a lie spread by EV proponents.

With the majority of unreliable energy generation going to solar and the wind industry in in freefall, it stands to reason that the majority of power will be available through the day.  To think every employer is going to be able to provide charging facilities for all the workers vehicles is again extremely optimistic.
Off peak may not be in 10 years when the number of EV's grows and it may be hard for a lot of people to charge through the day.


There are a Huge amount of obstacles facing the EV industry and again, I can't ever see ev's becoming anywhere near mainstream in the next 30 let alone 20 years.  All other factors aside, in that time frame I see the possibility of a a different technology coming along and replacing it before it gets to it's predicted blanket take over of the transport market.
 
Boppa
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Posted: 08:52am 02 Dec 2019
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True they aren't for everyone, but Australia, with its mostly urban population could benefit from EV's for a good percentage of the population, true rural areas would still probably be dino (or biofueled) for a while yet but apart from that (relatively small) part of the population there is no reason why EV's can't become at least a major part of the vehicle population here (especially given their low operating costs, even when charged at home and with our high electricity costs, they still work out cheaper to drive in comparison- your ICE motor would have to get the equivalent of 100mpg or more (2.3l/100km or lower)
Add minimal maintenance costs and it becomes a nobrainer for anyone who the EVs could comfortably cover their needs which is the better buy...
 
Davo99
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Posted: 01:06pm 02 Dec 2019
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Running costs are questionable to me.
I have seen outright lies on this.  Tesla had a comparison running cost BS chart on the OZ site for a while.  Showed the running costs to be cheaper than a petrol car. They weren't' even by their own figures which I thought were quite accurate.

Typical of Tesla spin doctoring and number fiddling, the comparison included the free 1500 KW supercharging with every new vehicle.  As I demonstrated on a fan Boi site, the first 2000 KM was cheaper than a comparable ICE but the 2nd 1500Km and all after that were in fact more EXPENSIVE. And I was using cars like Commodores and Falcons for comparison. Use something like a camry or even some Diesel SUV's and the numbers were worse.

You know you have them by the proverbial's when you get on a site full of one eyed Fan Bois and not one argues with your statements but typically tries to change the subject.
Last time I looked, they had removed that comparison. Maybe my exposing it got back to them. They had the same on the US site as well.

The other thing with the cheaper to run claim comes back to purchase costs. EV's are always far more expensive than a comparable ICE and what I have seen, insurance is a Killer WHEN you can get it.  Not all companies, including the majors will do all EV's now.  Hardly surprising with the difficulty in getting parts and people to fix them.
Add in the fact they are all canbus and more requiring factory computers to reset things and what would be a virtual non existent availability of used parts so loved by repairers these days and they would present a Costly if not significant risk.

To me it's not much point investing $100K to save maybe 20 when you can spend 30 to start and be done with it.  There are other aspects of EV's with depreciation which makes the value of EV's plunge like a brick and then the relatively Limited life of an EV.

They -may- be cheaper on servicing ( But have you seen the services costs Ev's DO have to get) but come 7-10 years when that battery pack goes and the cars are less than worthless.  I thought that maybe they may be good for very limited range but it seems this is not the case. Like being too smart for everyone's good, once the battery get to a certain point the vehicles in the main just shut down.

In comparison, the Mrs much loved Subaru dropped a bearing the other week after just 275 K Km.  A 60K KM used engine cost me $800 and I spent  about another $400 on it having the heads skimmed, head gaskets and a timing belt kit. Took a Day to get the old one out and have the thing driving at the end of the same day. I did a couple of Drive shafts, sway bar links , rear pads oil and filters and it literally drives like a new car.  Mrs said she kept thinking the thing had stalled at the lights it's so quiet now.  Thing runs like a watch and will be good for another 250K Km at least. It won't need anywhere near what the depreciation of a new EV would have spent on it in another 10 years.

There is every chance this thing could still be running when a new EV today is finished and not worth going on with.... so much for the enviro footprint which is known although not admitted is generally worse than an ICE, emissions from fuel included.  EV's now are mainly Coal Fired and with the low penetration of unreliable power the world over, will be in the great majority for decades to come.

I have to laugh when I read of people talking about charging EV's from their solar panels. They clearly have NO idea of what an EV battery Hold and what  typical, even 6.6KW system puts out... Summer or winter.  Of course then there are 2 other problems..... How do you charge the EV if you drive it to work from your panels and If the solar is Charging the EV, the house is using the coal fired grid now so you are robbing peter to pay Paul. In the city where EV's are in their most practical environment, a LOT of people don't have room for very big solar setups if they are not unit  or townhouse dwellers that don't have any room at all.

Being computers on wheels, it's not always possible just to put a reco pack in when batteries die either.
Manufacturers are locking out other 3rd parties from changing any parts at all so any replacement pack is likely to have to come from a stealership at typically painful prices.
I was reading recently of someone with a 5 YO nissan leaf that is just through it's 3rd pack and Nissan Oz want $35K plus labour for a replacement.

As for suitability, another silly argument I have seen for EV's is when you want to go on holidays etc you simply hire an ICE.  Have these people EVER tried to hire a car in peak times, Christmas, easter, school holidays? Good luck with that!
Add that into the running cost of the EV as well.

And there is one other thing I NEVER see mentioned with EV's, TAX.
There is no way gubbermints will either allow nor can afford to loose the huge revenue they get from fuel excise. As soon as they see that declining, a road tax will be imposed on EV's the same as what makes up more than half of present fuel costs here.  They may well go to a system like NZ has with Diesel Vehicles where you buy tax credits in advance for KM travelled.  Once the playing field is evened up like that, any running costs an EV May have will be greatly diminished.

Once the Running cost advantage is lost, EV's have little practical advantage over ICE's and a lot of drawbacks for many people. This will slow down sales and ICE's and EV's may reach an equilibrium unless gubberments force buyers hands. They may or may not but that will come down to what they can make the max revenue out of more than anything else.

There are lots of ways the numbers are spin doctored to make EV's look cheaper but the whole and real cost I am very suspect is a VERY different case. I don't see ev's truly being cheaper to own/ run for another decade yet. At least. If a raod tax is brought in which at sometime will be a certainty..... Going to be hard for EV's to remain cheaper unless fuel taxes are increased which will be a very hard thing for gubbermints to do. Look at what happened in France.


Again, Ev's atm are much like home Batteries that after the $10K purchase price save you $7K worth of power over their lifetimes.
Don't think the ratio is that good for EV's yet.

I don't believe EV's are near what they are cracked up to be yet but perhaps their greatest challenge is going to be overcoming the behavioural and logistic changes which are going to be required to support any significant change over to the transport fleet.  People are creatures of habit and reluctant to change. The infrastructure changes that will be needed to support an electric fleet will be mammoth. The auto industry certainly has a Novelty factor to drive EV slaes like it's never had in it's history but I see that as being relatively short lived as well.

When people get more exposed to EV's and see they are still stuck in traffic and not a lot really has changed, that novelty factor will wear off.

While Hydrogen I believe has massive shortcomings, It's main advantage seems to be it's ability to bypass a lot of the behavioural and infrastructure Changes EV's will require.
 
Boppa
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Posted: 05:46pm 02 Dec 2019
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And yet, on this very forum, we have a poster who has successfully owned an homemade EV for over ten years, who charges it from an offgrid house, and has regularly done quite long trips- at far less cost than I could ever dream of in an identical Toyota...

Just his local mileage, as posted with screenshots, could to date cost more than I spent on fuel and maintenance for the same mileage...

The fact is that we have to ween ourselves from the use of ICE powered vehicles, and there is no question of that- my old home town just spent a fortune fitting one way valves to the rain gutter systems from the street, because instead of the occasional once or twice a year puddles in the streets, it was becoming a monthly event to have parts of the main street flooding with sea water from the drains...

Tamar street flooded at high tide
(LOL- the old Coop wharf, I have caught many a fish from it in my youth... and where the bus is driving through the water, my mother worked at a shop just to the left offscreen...)

And currently EVs are the best current option put forward

Hydrogen would require either an equal (actually considering inefficiencies- larger) increase in electrical production for electrolysis- currently hydrogen is made from crude oil stocks- which is even less efficient than just burning it directly in an ICE, and a completely new transport and storage infrastructure- you can't put it in a fuel tanker, nor store it in a underground petrol tank, nor pump it through an existing bowser... that's all got to be swapped out for a different (and much more expensive) infrastructure
Edited 2019-12-03 03:49 by Boppa
 
Davo99
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Posted: 01:24am 03 Dec 2019
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  Boppa said  And yet, on this very forum, we have a poster who has successfully owned an homemade EV for over ten years, who charges it from an offgrid house, and has regularly done quite long trips- at far less cost than I could ever dream of in an identical Toyota...


What one person does is a lot different to what every person can do.

I have run my vehicle and a lot of other things for 17 Years off used veg oil.
There's a mammoth difference between a few enthusiast's doing something though and everyone doing it and that's the problem that we are going to face. A few  nutters like me using veg is entirely a viable thing. Converting the world to Biofuels... That was the last big idea hyped up for changing the fuel of the future.... and it fell flat on it's face.

  Quote  And currently EVs are the best current option put forward


That doesn't mean they don't have problems and a lot of difficulties to implement.
Beta had it all over VHS too but we know what happened there. In this day and age it's all about money and to a degree, pacifying the green movement as well.
Also being the best idea put forward does not mean they are a viable or practical one. Just means so far they may be the best of a lacking bunch.

  Quote  Hydrogen would require either an equal (actually considering inefficiencies- larger) increase in electrical production for electrolysis- currently hydrogen is made from crude oil stocks- which is even less efficient than just burning it directly in an ICE, and a completely new transport and storage infrastructure- you can't put it in a fuel tanker, nor store it in a underground petrol tank, nor pump it through an existing bowser... that's all got to be swapped out for a different (and much more expensive) infrastructure


I'm not a fan of Hydrogen but there is no getting away from the fact it DOES have certain advantages over  electric the same as electric has some advantages over Hydrogen. Neither are perfect or in reality, come within a bulls roar of IC's.

With the points you make about distribution and storage, there certainly would have to be changes no question but you still have the basic infrastructure of what is now Oil refinery's, tanker trucks and and servos in place.  Sure the tanks and pumps etc will have to be different but it can work much the same as it is now.

The problems with making EV's the mainstream from a private transport let alone anything else, POV are HUGE.  The problems and ramifications run on and on.
With Hydrogen, as I see it you can change the transport sector pretty much on it's own. With EV's you are basically needing to change a lot of lifestyles of people and major infrastructure of citys, towns and energy systems.

I'm not against EV's But I am sick of hearing them touted as the all singing , all dancing soloution to the worlds problems while at the same time the facts and realities are hidden by omission, glossed over with stupid parroted excuses or plain lied about.  I really want to know how a lot of these problems I forsee are are going to be handled and the answers I am looking for need to be realistic, practical and logical, not a bunch of feel good like is so often the case now.
 
Boppa
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Posted: 02:46am 03 Dec 2019
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You can buy a biofuel mix at practically any service station- E10... biofuels have become the mainstream...
Sure they rarely sell pure e100 (although you can buy it lol) it's just that most cars need extensive modifications to run anything higher than e10 (some particular models can run as high as e25 however)
Biodiesels are also available, but are rarer, I used to live near an BP outlet that had it, but I unfortunately moved away

I get it, you don't like EV,and see nothing but its problems, others see it in a more positive light (if you ever get a chance to actually drive a Tesla, take it, even the base model puts any of my old modifieds to shame in sheer acceleration)- I'd buy one today if I had the money, because they are really in the supercar class when it comes to acceleration and handling- which is part of their problem- they are the popular 'face' of EV, but it's like saying that a Lamborghini is the future of city cars (note in the link below that a 2 ton 'people mover' SUV is almost- not quite, but almost, the equal of a bloody Lambo!!!- that level of performance costs big $$$, regardless of whether it is an ICE or EV)

Lamborghini Aventador vs Tesla Model X Youtube

But face it Tesla has the 'gimmick' advantage at the moment

The real future EV is more like a Bolt or an E6 than a Tesla

'Fast charging' is also imho a bit of a gimmick, for 99% of peoples driving needs, a slow charger is perfectly fine, most people don't drive the max range of even current EV's on a daily basis, and already there are cities that only have  'on-street parking only' that are putting in place slow charger points (that don't need expensive high capacity electric power lines installed as they are low current slow chargers) on streetlights and parking meters- cheap to buy, cheap to install as they will run quite happily off a standard single phase electrical cable (and indeed as most streetlighting has been swapped out to low current LEDs, their cabling is well in excess of the power now required for lighting- so use that existing cabling for a charge point, this is being rolled out in parts of the UK and the EU already- in both residential areas and business areas, you park and plug in- tap your phone or a charge card and walk away
Streetlamp charging points



Already existing points in the UK


from Zap charge points interactive map

The thing is that bio probably will become a major  player in the long distance stuff, EV will probably become the power source of the cities and dino will be relegated to history
 
Davo99
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Posted: 10:36am 03 Dec 2019
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  Boppa said  You can buy a biofuel mix at practically any service station- E10... biofuels have become the mainstream...


That's UP TO 10% ethanol..... That is not the mainstream component of fuel by any measure. To get to 100% Biofuels has long been known to need an area of land planted equivalent to the surface area of all the ocean.


  Quote  Biodiesels are also available, but are rarer, I used to live near an BP outlet that had it, but I unfortunately moved away


Biodiesel is the same as ethanol. Completely non viable to fuel the transport fleet with it or compete with oil.  There was only ever one place that sold B100 in sydney and it was very short lived. There was also a place at Rutherford which lasted a little longer. There is NO biodiesel made commercially in oz and hasn't been for years, Most that there is comes from south africa and is often privately imported by companies for their own use.

  Quote  I get it, you don't like EV,and see nothing but its problems,


No, that is being dismissive and avoiding admitting the problems that converting the vehicle fleet to electric holds. Sorry, but this is very typical of it's supporters. Dismiss problems and don't acknowledge or answer the difficult questions that are rightfully raised about it.
That doesen't do anything to further the acceptance of EV's, quite the opposite.
For them to make any ground, people first need to know how they are going to be implemented and how things will work.  Ra Ra and tesla type BS Hype won't cut it with the majority of buyers and those that want to know.


  Quote  others see it in a more positive light


Positive and practical are 2 entirely different things.
I'd be REALLY happy for you or anyone else to address some of the problems I have raised just than dismiss everything under the false idea that someone doesn't like something therefore their concerns are invalid because they don't support the belief that fit the desired narrative.

IF Evs are going to be so positive, please provide factual, practical and realistic FACTS as to why and pick a couple of the problems I have raised and tell me how they might be addressed.

Maybe you might like to tell me what the plan is to cover things like  Recharging when On holidays at peak times like Christmas.  Where is all the power going to come from and how is all the massive infrastructure going to be paid for?
That's a couple of Biggies in my mind I'd like to put to rest.


  Quote  (if you ever get a chance to actually drive a Tesla, take it, even the base model puts any of my old modifieds to shame in sheer acceleration)-


I have driven one, not a long way but for about 20 Min.  Yes, it was quite fast but being over 18 there is a lot more I look for in a vehicle than just speed which will only get me fined. TBH, If I want to go fast, I'll just buy a Bike and blow every tesla out there to the weeds and save myself  $120K in the process. I have a bike now that would keep up with all bar the fastest Tesla so it's not that big a deal.
I have owned fast cars, I;m more interested in practical vehicles atm.

One thing driving that and another EV ( BMW) brought to light was the overhyped  smoothness of EV's.  I found they are just as rough as any other car on typical roads because it is the road surface that is miles away the Biggest contributor to NVH, not the IC engine in normal cars. I also foresaw and experience the danger factor of having EV's so quiet.  People walk out in front of them. This cannot be dismissed as " People should look where they are going", right now school kids are taught to look and LISTEN for cars. Certainly this will probably be something people will become more aware of in time but it's going to be another generation at least before we get used to that if we ever do.


  Quote  I'd buy one today if I had the money, because they are really in the supercar class when it comes to acceleration and handling-


I guess I do have the money although it would take a substantial chunk of my savings but I would not own one. Not because I don't like ev's but because of the problems with servicing and repairs.  Bust a tail light in one or bend a suspension arm or something and the car is off the road for weeks... if you are lucky.  Things with Parts, repairs and servicing are bad enough in the states and well documented, I can only think what they would be like here and if you are not in a capitol City.... forget it.

But performance is one aspect of one car. I'd rather have a car I can drive from Syd to Bris in the same time I can an IC with a trailer behind it.  I couldn't even get to my fathers place 400KM away now in the same time in an EV bar one... maybe.  NO electric will do that in the same time or near it as an IC will and probably won't for another 10 years at least.

If the main advantage of EV's is going to be speed, then they are not going to get far at all because the majority of the present EVs are not fast because for the majority of car owners, that's not important the same as performance vehicles now and always have been a small part of the automotive market.

  Quote  But face it Tesla has the 'gimmick' advantage at the moment


That's one way of putting it. I'd put it more like cult status but probably the same thing in the end.
Unfortunately even with a relative monopoly, they are still going out the door backwards.  When the mainstream brands start raining down their offerings next year, The red ink on the balance sheet is going to go up like like an acceleration graph for a P100 in ludicrous mode. Their has been little to no competition for Tesla till now. Wait till that changes and people whom have been brand loyal can now  get an EV and stick with the brand they know.  Even those not brand loyal will be able to go to a local dealership and see the offerings rather than the one showroom tesla has anywhere near them and see a couple of cars they will have to order online and likely wait months for.

Teslas are not small cars either so they have missed out on that market for a start.
Hello Hyundi, Kia, BMW, nissan.......

  Quote  The real future EV is more like a Bolt or an E6 than a Tesla


Agreed. and what are the advantages of those Vehicles?  Cheaper running costs?
As said, that has to be amortised over the much higher purchase price of a comparable EV.  No use spending 30K more than you need to in order to save $15k over the life of the vehicle.

What other practical, real world advantages do EV's have? And please dear god, don't say " They don't need oil changes" as if that is needed every day and costs $1000 at a time.

  Quote  'Fast charging' is also imho a bit of a gimmick, for 99% of peoples driving needs, a slow charger is perfectly fine, most people don't drive the max range of even current EV's on a daily basis,


I agree but the family car is also called on to cover longer distances for holidays, family gatherings and other trips. If one needs a second car, probably an IC, this undermines the cost savings, if any, of having an EV in the first place.
I don't know of anyone now that keeps a vehicle in the shed the majority of the time and just wheels it out for holidays.

Fast charging and range become major issues for this purpose and for those that live in the country that want to cover long distances.
Sure, their needs may be better met by IC's but that's undermining the viability of EV's overall.


  Quote   as they will run quite happily off a standard single phase electrical cable (and indeed as most streetlighting has been swapped out to low current LEDs, their cabling is well in excess of the power now required for lighting- so use that existing cabling for a charge point,



Ummm, they must be REAL slow chargers.
The power draw of a street light and an EV charger is chalk and cheese. What's the good of having a charger that's so slow it gives you a few KM an hour and that's what they would have to do to run off a "standard single Phase electrical Cable" when you have a bunch of EV's plugged in down the street.


  Quote  this is being rolled out in parts of the UK and the EU already- in both residential areas and business areas, you park and plug in- tap your phone or a charge card and walk away


I don't see surburban Charging being a problem and it is easy catered for. It's when away from the City that the challenges Begin.
None of this addresses the HUGE increase in electrical Demand.  In some countries it won't be a big problem to power the EV fleet off Hydro and EVs are already becoming Popular in these places. In the rest of the world where power is in shortage such as here in OZ where people turning on their AC causes problems, meeting the increased power demands, much of which will be at night when people come home and there is no solar, is going to be a BIG problem and a Huge cost. Basically there is 2 Options, Coal Or Nuke.  I hope to god we don't go down the nuke road but even if the go ahead was given, I'd be dead before it was completed. For a shorter and stable solution, coal is the only way.

  Quote  The thing is that bio probably will become a major  player in the long distance stuff, EV will probably become the power source of the cities and dino will be relegated to history


Bio has had 20+ years since it's last flash in the pan as the saviour of the world.  How much more time does it need to become more than a token amount of the fuel used?
Growing Biofuels is HIGHLY dependent on oil for fertiliser as well as powering machinery. It is also water use intensive which means a lot of areas aren't suitable for oil crops. In any case you are still going to need the IC vehicles so they won't be dying out anytime in the next 50 years unless some other presently not oven thought of soloution comes along.

Cities are going to have to find at least 4 Times more power than they are using now to power an EV fleet. Maybe then when the power companies are copping it from all sides to supply power, they might at least encourage and pay a decent amount for the power private homeowners generate.

Dino relegated to History? Not in My, your or probably our Kids lifetime it won't.
The thing people forget is that EV's are 100% dependent on Fossil fuels for their existence and creation.

Stop FF tomorrow and EV production comes to a screeching halt. The world will NEVER be able to stop the use of oil. Anyone that thinks Different should remove all oil related products from their EV to backup their beliefs and only charge them from their own RE generated power.... Like Trev.
 
Boppa
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Joined: 08/11/2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 807
Posted: 11:51am 03 Dec 2019
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Most of your points are at best minor quibbles imho, and many I disagree with entirely- lets just end this with you having your view, me having mine, and I hope yours is wrong- because our kids are the ones who are going to have to pay for this 'business as usual' attitude
 
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