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Forum Index : EV's : German and EU view of EV’s

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domwild
Guru

Joined: 16/12/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 854
Posted: 03:14am 18 Apr 2019
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Hope to buy an EV once we get a subsidy. Two items translated from German:

1.85% of all emissions come from only three countries: China, India and USA.
1,400 coal-fired power stations are being built at the moment
147 nuclear reactors “ “ “
Germany’s contribution of CO2 worldwide: 0.0004712%

But Germany wants to save the world by switching everything off, forbids everything, makes everything dearer and wrecks its key industries! (Sounds familiar, ours is 1.2% due to not having nuclear in the mix!)

2.“A study by a physicist and others has shown that the combined CO2 emissions from the manufacture of the battery and the German mix of electricity means an E-car emits 11 to 28% more CO2 compared to a diesel. (Study by Info-Institut Munich)

A Tesla 3 battery costs the climate 11 to 15 tonnes of CO2 due to the energy used for the winning of lithium, cobalt and manganese.

Assuming a life of ten years at 15,000 km/year, that is a cost of 73 to 98 grams/km; authors are Buchal, Hans-Dieter Karl and Hans-Werner Sinn.

Emissions from electricity cost between 156 to 181 grams of CO2/km for the Tesla and therefore much more than a comparable diesel.

The European Policy judges E-cars as Zero-Emission vehicles, which is patently incorrect. A CO2 limit of 59 grams/km has been promulgated for 2030, which corresponds to a consumption of 2.2 litres of diesel or 2.6 litres of petrol and is “ingenieurtechnisch unrealistisch” or unrealistic as seen from a technical engineering viewpoint.” End of quote.

3. My comments gleaned from the internet:

To convert all the vehicles in Germany would need 2.5 Million tonnes of lithium, present yearly worldwide production is 250,000 tonnes.

Drivers in cold countries, like Alaska and Canada report only half the range during cold weather.

Owners have been fined for using fast chargers as those chargers draw as much as three houses and that is not permitted in the contract of the electricity supplier.

As you cannot switch off coal-fired power stations, to charge the vehicle at night may reduce power costs; power stations can already produce electricity cheaper at night plus usage and their profits will increase – benefits passed on – pigs fly!

It has been alleged Japan is trending towards hydrogen fuel cells, where the hydrogen can be produced via electrolysis from surplus electricity. At the moment your solar PV inverter will switch off once the voltage reaches 240VAC + - 7% or 256 Volts at around lunch time, when few people are home to use it and then you also lose your generous 4c/kWh in WA!

Tesla and GM (?) are both losing the US federal subsidy due to producing more than 200,000 cars/year; when are we getting one?






Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up.

Winston Churchill
 
isochronic
Guru

Joined: 21/01/2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 689
Posted: 03:45am 19 Apr 2019
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I have to say, I have driven a Very Well known brand diesel hatchback from germany...utterly, completely brilliant , grunty and smooth as silk. And as you say, with less pollution overall. Maybe the plugin hybrids will get to that 2.2 litres figure and use the best of both approaches.
 
brucedownunder2
Guru

Joined: 14/09/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1425
Posted: 12:02am 20 Apr 2019
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Very interesting post Dom..

I was very surprised that the provider can switch off the surplus consumer energy when the power station voltage gets to that certain voltage..

Therefore making it less of an incentive to add solar panels and hope for a "all-Day" return on the investment ????.

Betcha very few people out there know about that little trap????.

I'm in the final stage of wiring my added 14 panels that I got second hand for around $300. I can't hook them up to the grid ,but will probably do something with batteries, that I have , and power some every day house things..

Anyhow , thanks for the post ,

Bruce
Bushboy
 
Ralph2k6

Senior Member

Joined: 24/09/2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 129
Posted: 01:47am 20 Apr 2019
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Hi Bruce,

The grid tie inverter itself will disconnect from the grid if the line voltage rises over spec.
I've enjoyed my solax inverter (cheap chinese i know). Datalogs all the details, where I am I have not had an overvoltage disconnection yet.
Ralph
 
domwild
Guru

Joined: 16/12/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 854
Posted: 07:12am 20 Apr 2019
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Correct Ralph, as part of the licensing, the unit must switch off at or over 256VAC. Driving around Perth I find solar installers have installed the panels on any side where they fit, even south.

By the way, in Stuttgart, the home of Mercedes and Porsche, police have fined 170 "diesel sinners" or "Diesel Suender" as some cars may not meet Euro 5 or some such standard. A fine city like Singapore where you get fined for everything!

Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up.

Winston Churchill
 
domwild
Guru

Joined: 16/12/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 854
Posted: 11:09pm 07 May 2019
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A Tesla battery will last 10 years and allegedly cost $15,000 and I do not know which model Tesla that is for.At an average of 15,000 km/year, we are looking at a total of 150,000 km for $15,000 or 10c/km battery costs.
Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up.

Winston Churchill
 
galderdi
Regular Member

Joined: 12/08/2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 66
Posted: 02:45am 09 May 2019
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  domwild said   A Tesla battery will last 10 years and allegedly cost $15,000 and I do not know which model Tesla that is for.At an average of 15,000 km/year, we are looking at a total of 150,000 km for $15,000 or 10c/km battery costs.


I think the $15,000 Tesla battery is for the Tesla Wall for home use. It is not an EV battery. EV batteries are still around $1000 per KWh so for a Tesla P100d the battery cost would be approaching $100,000 not $15,000. This is the main reason Teslas cost so much. I am only using round figures so it probably isn't quite $100,000 and the costs are declining. But I am just highlighting that $15,000 for a Tesla EV battery is not accurate, unless it is only for a portion/module.
I would be very happy if a Tesla battery was $15,000. Even second hand a 7KWh EV battery is around $2,000.
 
domwild
Guru

Joined: 16/12/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 854
Posted: 03:09am 09 May 2019
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"I would be very happy if a Tesla battery was $15,000."

Thanks Galderdi. This figure was given to me from that Munich study I translated. I have read a critique of that study, which ignores the CO2 cost of winning the lithium, cobalt and manganese, it however claims the Tesla factory runs off solar as an obvious plus.

When I drove a GM electric car for a friend, the salesman was very reluctant to state the figure for a replacement battery. We will have to wait a few more years before we get some Aussie figures.
Taxation as a means of achieving prosperity is like a man standing inside a bucket trying to lift himself up.

Winston Churchill
 
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