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Forum Index : EV's : diesel-electric subs going to nuclear

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zeitfest
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Joined: 31/07/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 426
Posted: 12:56pm 27 Sep 2021
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There is lots of publicity citing Australia's next submarines will be nuclear powered, and use subs with sealed USA reactors.

Personally I am all in favor of it. The US demonstrates long-duration subs for strategic use in indo-pacific conditions,  technology that is actually working, and technology management that actually works - just what we need for defence.

There are some interesting releases though. One cites how the UK just decided to design its next range of subs to replace the Astute class. The other mentions that Rolls-Royce is to build mini-reactors for UK domestic power generation.

So.. Four signs your mini-reactor was supplied by Rolls-Royce....  

1)  When it starts, all you can hear is.... tick...tick...tick...tick...
2)  An explosion is addressed as a "containment failure".
3)  If you (the taxpayer) have to ask the price, you obviously can't afford it.
4)  It was made by BMW.


UK subs

Rolls
 
Warpspeed
Guru

Joined: 09/08/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 4406
Posted: 09:12pm 27 Sep 2021
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There is a lot more to the technology than just fitting an engine that glows in the dark.

While the sub itself can go right around the world submerged, and run for decades on its original fuel, the extra technology comes from the completely closed life support system for the crew that then becomes necessary. Recycling the same air becomes a real problem similar to long duration space flights.

I also wonder what happens to the reactor core and depleted fuel when these subs are scrapped in about twenty or thirty years. Maybe they will just bury it all under Parliament House in Canberra.
Cheers,  Tony.
 
Godoh
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Joined: 26/09/2020
Location: Australia
Posts: 416
Posted: 10:26pm 27 Sep 2021
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My main problem is that the government did not ask Australians if we wanted to go nuclear.
Submarine bases are in capital cities. HMAS Platypus is smack dab in the centre of Sydney. So what happens if something goes wrong. A leak of radiation will make the Harbour and much of Sydney contaminated.
Or if an enemy attacks they will bomb the navy bases first. There goes much of Sydney with Garden Island and Platypus flattened.
Really what use is a Submarine anyway. In naval exercises our clunky old Collins class diesel subs have repeatedly managed to sneak up and destroy US nuclear subs.
The Nuclear subs are much noisier than battery run conventional subs.
Then you have to find some poor lunatic who wants to stay under the ocean for months at a time, not seeing sunlight or breathing fresh air.
We already have trouble finding enough canon fodder to man our subs.
Our coastline is so big that Subs are actually pretty useless. By the time they get to where they are needed the whole thing is over. If they were flying subs that could rapidly get near where needed then submerge maybe they would be useful.
But they aren't they are just like tanks, designed to be scary but really not much use.
We would be much better off, filling the coastline with missiles. That way we could actually protect ourselves
Pete
 
Davo99
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Joined: 03/06/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 1578
Posted: 01:44am 28 Sep 2021
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Our Defense forces have a long history of buying the wrong tools for the Job. I know nothing about the subs or have any interest.  I know well from family whom have been in key admin roles within the defense forces that is is all political and to do far more with backhanders than selecting the best weapons for our needs.

I am dead set against nuke at least as far as power generation goes.  The proponents are always bleating about accidents can't happen with new tech but there are to obviously flaws to that BS.

Firstly, they never take the old reactors off line that have been problematic in the past.

Secondly, I don't think any incident  has been due to equipment failure.  The problem is always HUMAN failure.  Someone always wants to cut costs, cut corners, appease the higher ups, Makes a Human error etc.

Chernobyl was human error. Fukushima was human stupidity, ignorance and cost cutting, 3 Mile island was the same and there are loads of incidents that we never hear about from a corrupt to the core industry.

If you look up chernoybl there is some moronic and insulting figure of something like only 5 people Died.  They say none Died at Fukushima which is also crap.
Even ignoring that, look at the thousands of acres of land made uninhabitable forever. The amount of people displaced and had their lives ruined.

I see typical ignorant commentary on the issue where the soft of heart and head crap on about Thorium reactors.  Yes, the save the world  energy fairy tale of the last 40 years that's been just around the corner all that time yet there is not a single operational Reactor making power anywhere in the world yet. Maybe another 40 years and there will be one outside a lab.

The only good thing about nuke Generation here would be that I'll be long gone before they ever get round to powering one up in this country.
We can't even put a railway through the city without major stuff ups, technical issues and gargantuan cost blowouts that put the completion years behind.

Nuke power station.... Bwhahahaah!
Country would go broke trying to get a single one up and running.
 
Godoh
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Joined: 26/09/2020
Location: Australia
Posts: 416
Posted: 10:38pm 29 Sep 2021
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Hi Davo, I worked for the navy for 2 years way back in the late 1970s. I was amazed at the condition of the ships we had. They were forever chipping rust off them and painting over the divets. When cyclone Yasi hit Queensland we could not send our supply ship up to help because it had so much rust chipped of it that it was only 2mm thick in some places on the hull.
The inside of the ships looked very haphazard too. Some of the ships were US designs, they were made to have the superstructure and decks removed and replaced at regular intervals. Of course ours never had that done, just more paint.
As far as Nuclear powerstations go, there is a wonderful monument to that failure at Jervis Bay on the NSW south coast.
An 8 million dollar road was built to Murrays beach and a big flat spot carved out for a nuclear power station in the 1970s.
It is a great carpark now and the road has been called the road to nowhere since.
There was a plan to build a nuclear power station on the southern side of Jervis bay, a Steel works and turn the whole area into an industrial hub.
In the way back, the whole surrounds of Jervis Bay were carved up into building blocks and industrial blocks. It was to be called Pindimar City.
I bought a 7.5 acre block there in the late 70s and it came with 23 titles, there were streets mapped out, one each side of my land. I had to consolidate the titles into one block to get a building permit. I did consolidate the land but never bothered with a permit to build, I just built a small slab hut and had a great life there.
Pete
 
zeitfest
Guru

Joined: 31/07/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 426
Posted: 10:37am 02 Oct 2021
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Wish I had that block :)
I suspect the way to go is make a sub act as a carrier, eg a parent sub with a few battery powered "sublets".  They would be the teeth, have a range of a few hundred k or so and  attach and recharge from the carrier.
But conflicts will be fought with DNA tech from now on surely ??  Given our pollies and military, I half expect a PR promo featuring how the Glorious Powers that be, are Fighting Off The Viruses using the Mark 48 Wire-Guided Torpedo. God help us.
Edited 2021-10-02 20:40 by zeitfest
 
Davo99
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Joined: 03/06/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 1578
Posted: 08:31am 03 Oct 2021
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I think any planning for the future for us plebs at least is a very large gamble.
Seems the whole world is onboard with a single agenda these days against the people so makes one wonder if one has more to fear from foreign powers or their own Grubbermint.

They all seem to be against their own at this stage.
 
zeitfest
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Joined: 31/07/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 426
Posted: 04:01am 19 Mar 2023
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Well well.

AUKUS reactors to be made by RollsRoyce

What are we supposed to say ? "Long live the Bling" ?
Edited 2023-03-19 14:02 by zeitfest
 
scruss
Regular Member

Joined: 20/09/2021
Location: Canada
Posts: 83
Posted: 06:41pm 20 Mar 2023
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It will all go swimmingly just as long as you don't buy your subs "slightly used" from the UK. Canada did, and things went predictably badly ...
 
zeitfest
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Joined: 31/07/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 426
Posted: 12:32am 22 Mar 2023
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Maybe we will get a discount for water damage  
 
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