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Forum Index : EV's : typical kWHour/km

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zeitfest
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Joined: 31/07/2019
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Posted: 12:50pm 24 Nov 2022
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What would be a typical figure for kWHour used per km, for an average car EV ?
I gathered it would be about 0.25 to 0.3, would that be right ?
 
TassyJim

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Posted: 09:14pm 25 Nov 2022
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The better ones claim to achieve 15kWh/100km depending on conditions.
With my MG, I work on about 20kWh/100km on a mix of city and highway running.

It is the opposite of fossil fuel vehicles, city stop start is very economical while highway running brings wind resistance into play and with typical SUV styles, they are as streamlined as a house brick.

Jim

A useful reference:
https://ev-database.org
Edited 2022-11-26 07:16 by TassyJim
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zeitfest
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Posted: 03:54am 27 Nov 2022
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Thanks
I vaguely remembered the 0.25 - 0.3 figure from figures published many years ago, I think it was data from a trial of cars with a USA metropolitan/city cycle when CO2 wasn't important.  Late nineties maybe??

Anyway I thought I would see how the CO2 figure measures up.
My electricity bill cites about 0.8 kG CO2 created per kWHour via fossil fuel generators. So at 20 kWHour/100k  that leads to about 16 kG CO2 / 100 k for an EV.
That doesn't include any charge/discharge inefficiency.

To create 16 kg CO2 from diesel needs about  16 x 12/44 carbon = 4.36 kg.
Diesel is about 90% carbon by weight so that brings it about 4.8 kg diesel, at a density of 0.85 kg/litre that brings it to  5.7 litres/100 k.

So a good diesel car outside the city is actually less polluting than a moderate fossil fuel-charged EV.
That is quite a sobering thought. Of course, it is necessary long term to switch to  solar/wind sourcing,  but most people are still buying fossil fuel power.

Hmm.
Edited 2022-11-27 13:54 by zeitfest
 
Godoh
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Posted: 05:54am 27 Nov 2022
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Zeit, well that is one figure of pollution only. It used to be thought that diesel engines were less polluting than petrol engines. That seems to no longer apply.
To account for all the pollution you would have to include particulates and Nitrous Oxide too.
In the end an electric car charged from solar power will probably win.
It will certainly win as far as particulate pollution in cities goes.
Pete
 
TassyJim

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Posted: 06:51am 27 Nov 2022
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I am in Tasmania where the vast majority of our electricity is hydro with wind and solar increasing so the figures are in favor of EVs.

The sooner the rest of Aus catches up the better.

Every litre of petrol I don't use is one less litre being imported into Aus.
That's good for balance of trade.
Aus gets a lot of fuel from India and India gets oil from Russia
So every litre of petrol I don't use is money that doesn't go to that scumbag Putin.

And the EV is fun to drive thanks to the instant torque.

The only downside so far is my wife wants to do all the driving now...

Jim
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Godoh
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Posted: 07:07am 27 Nov 2022
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Hi Jim, do you know if there are any all wheel drive electric cars about. I live in Tassie too but high on a mountain where we get ice and snow on the road a lot.
Once the mobs of 4 wheel drivers go past to see the snow, they pack it all down to lovely slippery slabs of ice, that prevents 2 wheel drives getting up the mountain past our place.
We would love to go electric ( as we have done with all our garden tools) but need 4 or all wheel drive to get to our place in winter.
Some time a report on how you have found your car to be would be a good read.
Cheers
Pete
 
phil99

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Posted: 07:08am 27 Nov 2022
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"Every litre of petrol I don't use is one less litre being imported into Aus."

And the fuel burned to import it has to be added to it's emissions. Refining and local transport of it also burn a lot. That all has to be added to what comes from your tailpipe.
 
Revlac

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Posted: 07:45am 27 Nov 2022
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  Quote  And the fuel burned to import it has to be added to it's emissions. Refining and local transport of it also burn a lot. That all has to be added to what comes from your tailpipe.

Applies to EV's as well, still using coal power stations at car factories, and the mining and transport of raw materials as well.

A retro fit electric to an older car, and only charged by home solar during the day sounds a little better.
Cheers Aaron
Off The Grid
 
TassyJim

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Posted: 08:24pm 27 Nov 2022
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  Godoh said  Hi Jim, do you know if there are any all wheel drive electric cars about. I live in Tassie too but high on a mountain where we get ice and snow on the road a lot.

Pete

I spent 9 years at Tarraleah (Brady's Lake) so I know about snow and black ice etc.
I once spent a cold night sleeping in my Porsche when I underestimated the depth of the snow drifts when going across the top from Launceston to home. Should have taken the long way around or the 4WD for that trip.

Many manufactures produce a range of models.
Single engine front or rear wheel drive (My MG is front WD but the MG4 will be rear WD).
Then they chuck in a bigger battery for a long range version.
And then a second motor for all wheel drive.
The price goes up accordingly.

I had been considering going electric for a long time including converting my 1998 MGF but hadn't got around to it.
After a health scare last October I was reminded that life doesn't wait.
My wife liked the colour of the light blue MG used in all their adverts so we went to Launceston for a look. None in stock and not able to source the light blue. The wife said I could get the red one which was available but I knew it wouldn't be wise.

I went looking on the mainland, going through the listing of dealers.
I eventually got to M and Mornington MG had a light blue one listed. That was between Christmas and New Year. By then the doctors had allowed me to drive again so the timing was perfect.
The dealer quoted a price including delivery which was acceptable and after I had registered it the price was slightly less than the local quote for the red one.

It was two weeks form paying for it to having the delivery truck arrive at our front gate. Registered that same day and we haven't looked back.
The electric replaces the old MG so we still have the Subaru for long trips and towing the trailer to Bunnings or the tip.

In the 12 months since then, the available vehicles in Australia (with a long wait for delivery) have increased a lot and long range, 4WD and towing capacity are all there in the mix.

But MG are no longer available in the nice blue...

Jim
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Revlac

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Posted: 05:21am 29 Nov 2022
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Occasionally some people will post the figures they get from there own vehicles, It can be Quite interesting, https://forums.aeva.asn.au/viewtopic.php?t=7865 there are some more MG stuff there as well.
Cheers Aaron
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TassyJim

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Posted: 06:00am 29 Nov 2022
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The aeva forum link was an interesting read.
I assume the app he talks about is something that 'calls home'. Not on my model.
My tailgate closes very well with a gently push down and I have never observed any power use when stopped at lights etc. I only need light brake pedal pressure.
I guess there will always be different assembly issues.

I don't tailgate trucks so not able to confirm his consumption figures when doing so.

I usually charge at 9 amps AC when charging overnight but can up it to 16 if needed. When I finally get the solar installed (another sorry saga), I will tweak the charging rate to match output.

I still haven't used a pubic charger.

Jim
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Godoh
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Posted: 06:36am 29 Nov 2022
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Thanks for the updates Jim, it is good to read stuff from someone who is running a full EV.
You and I must be two of the few drivers in Tassie who don't tailgate.
Yep 9 years at Tarraleah should have taught you a few things about cold.
Having to sleep in the Porsche would be a challenge. I am guessing that you did not keep the engine running to stay warm.
Cheers
Pete
 
Trev

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Posted: 12:43am 03 Dec 2022
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zeitfest,
A couple of other links that can provide some insight in EV power consumption

http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/ViewTopic.php?FID=15&TID=11773

http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/ViewTopic.php?FID=15&TID=15030

There are a lot of variables that determine consumption and range.
The type of vehicle.
Weight, every kg requires an energy to move it. Towing is like double consumption.
Aerodynamics, Wind, headwind or tail wind. Wind resistance is a friction.
Therefore speed makes a huge difference. Consumption is exponential with speed.
Drive train, 2wd more efficient than 4wd, but front 2wd is better than rear 2wd, Hub drive better than 2wd. Every bit of friction requires energy.
Road surface - friction
The type of tyres and how tight they a pumped - friction
Terrain, up or down hill, gravity sucks! But thank God it does.
And surprisingly (or not), temperature. I have heard from other EV'ers, cold temperature, less range/more consumption. I didn't notice on my Canberra trip, but the numbers are logged in the link above.

At many EV shows, I see consumption figures of commercial EV's. One of them once, posted expected range, so I asked the battery size and clearly the numbers didn't add up. I pushed and twisted the questions and eventually got that the expected range was at 60km/hr in ideal conditions. Be careful with poor advertising.
Trev @ http://www.thebackshed.com/basiclynatural/
 
TassyJim

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Posted: 01:16am 03 Dec 2022
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My MG was advertised as WLTP Combined Cycle (km) = 263km (18.6kWh/100kM)
Turn on any climate control even if only the fan it drops to 221km
Over winter it dropped to 213km but has now gone back to ~220kM
Highway driving brings it down to 200km

I would expect most EVs are still advertised using the WLTP standard and will show similar variations.

I have stopped looking too closely at the specs now I have one and I expect the MG to see me out...
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Trev

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Posted: 03:52am 03 Dec 2022
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ok, with the AEVA Canberra trip. I had the interest to see if the cold made much difference.

From home, Kuttabul, Qld to Carmilla, 139km and used 59% of battery. Speed at 80km/hr. Chargefox recorded 19.58kWh going back in. This makes 14.09kWh per 100km at 80km/hr.
It was a pleasant 19 degrees C in our open bedroom windows when I left.

From Goulburn to Canberra, colder weather, 91km and used 40% of the battery. Speed is likely to be slightly higher than 80km/hr going by the distance and time taken, but probably similar. No recorded kWh going back in, so calculating .... 19.58kWh/59% of battery x 40% of battery = 13.27kWh/91km x 100km = 14.6kWh per 100km. So it could be said, 1/2 a kWh more in the cold per 100km. (Maybe?)

For the Canberra trip. there was a lot of driving at 100km/hr, but just for the record, the second section of the journey, Carmilla to Marlborough (drove at 100km/hr), is very similar to the first section (80km/hr) I drove these similar sections at the different speeds to show the difference. Drove 135km and used 78%. Chargefox recorded 25.08kWh going back in. This makes 18.6kWh per 100km at 100km/hr. It was also said 'Unfortunately the wind picked up (head wind) and so this is not an accurate comparison.'
Trev @ http://www.thebackshed.com/basiclynatural/
 
Trev

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Posted: 04:21am 03 Dec 2022
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An efficiency report is talked about in this AEVA hall meeting, Brisbane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNqKIWPYRD4
Trev @ http://www.thebackshed.com/basiclynatural/
 
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