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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : PiPico mmbasic in the "Make" in Germany

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homa

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Joined: 05/11/2021
Location: Germany
Posts: 496
Posted: 10:10pm 09 Feb 2023
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PiPico mmbasic in the "Make" in Germany

Unfortunately only available for purchase.
I have the magazine and was very happy about the article.
Many greetings from Germany.

https://shop.heise.de/make-01-2023/PDF

I am only reader of the magazine, not to get problems all the links in the screenshot of the PDF!



Edited 2023-02-10 08:10 by homa
 
Nimue

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Joined: 06/08/2020
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 425
Posted: 10:31pm 09 Feb 2023
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^^^^

Start a revolution --- slowly.


Seriously,  whilst I wish I had $$$$$$ and the social media smarts to make 'mites and 'TheShed more of at "thing" -- I'm not sure I'm ready to share.

Wonderful to see exposure and that BASIC as a language is not dead.

Thanks for sharing.

N
Entropy is not what it used to be
 
CaptainBoing

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Joined: 07/09/2016
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2171
Posted: 10:54am 10 Feb 2023
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That is good - exposure increases foot-fall.

I am convinced BASIC is a victim of language snobbery. I know it is only a passing resemblance to the original Dartmouth design, but I was writing VB6 professionally, full-time 20 years ago (and odd spats since) and it can do anything - I traveled to new worlds with the stuff, SNMP Trap expanders, database stuff, APIs, nothing was asked that wasn't possible.

I can only explain it as snobbery. Maybe it's what everyone learnt on and moved on to other languages and now look at it as a child's toy in an attempt to show how much they've grown... <shrugs>
 
IanRogers

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Joined: 09/12/2022
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 152
Posted: 01:04pm 10 Feb 2023
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  CaptainBoing said  That is good - exposure increases foot-fall.

I am convinced BASIC is a victim of language snobbery. I know it is only a passing resemblance to the original Dartmouth design, but I was writing VB6 professionally, full-time 20 years ago (and odd spats since) and it can do anything - I traveled to new worlds with the stuff, SNMP Trap expanders, database stuff, APIs, nothing was asked that wasn't possible.

I can only explain it as snobbery. Maybe it's what everyone learnt on and moved on to other languages and now look at it as a child's toy in an attempt to show how much they've grown... <shrugs>


I agree to a point. My first programming language was Pascal. But soon I realized if I was going anywhere in embedded control, I would need assembler or C.

The first "compiled to native" basic was as powerful as both the above. So I don't think it's snobbery but old un's remembering basic couldn't do stuff.. ie bitwise operations, string manipluation's or any low level come to think of it. Many of these guy's moved to languages more powerful than basic and there is no point turning back.

Here's the thing... Pete has done a miracle of sorts to get pico W on the MM list AND networking to boot.. However! when I first mention pico W it was taboo.. I have that pico w sitting in an arduino environment and I can do virtually anything. C++ gives just that little bit more.

BUT!! I love playing with basic and pascal.  So I'm not putting basic down as it has its place.
I'd give my left arm to be ambidextrous
 
Nimue

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Posted: 01:39pm 10 Feb 2023
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My use case is pretty much always education.

We (the system) currently start with Scratch / Minecraft (the education version has a pretty capable "block" code engine built in) and if learners opt to study a computer science qualification at 14, they move onto either Python or VB.  But there is no reason why other languages cant be used -- BASIC being one of them. AND at a younger age.

For me, the use of BASIC allows students to actually read the code and attempt to work out what it does.  Take list comprehension in Python:

fruits = ["apple", "banana", "cherry", "kiwi", "mango"]
newlist = [x for x in fruits if "a" in x]
print(newlist)


Whilst I can work out what is going on, I need to think about it.   The same code in C++ (granted not a language I really use):

#include <iostream>
#include <vector>
#include <algorithm>

int main() {
 std::vector<std::string> fruits = {"apple", "banana", "cherry", "kiwi", "mango"};
 std::vector<std::string> newlist;

 for (const auto &x : fruits) {
   if (x.find("a") != std::string::npos) {
     newlist.push_back(x);
   }
 }

 for (const auto &x : newlist) {
   std::cout << x << " ";
 }

 return 0;
}


Nope no idea.

But in BASIC:

DIM FRUITS$(4)
FRUITS$(0) = "apple"
FRUITS$(1) = "banana"
FRUITS$(2) = "cherry"
FRUITS$(3) = "kiwi"
FRUITS$(4) = "mango"
DIM NEWLIST$(4)
NEWLISTL = 0
FOR X = 0 TO 4
 IF INSTR(FRUITS$(X),"a") <> 0 THEN
   NEWLISTL = NEWLISTL + 1
   NEWLIST$(NEWLISTL) = FRUITS$(X)
 END IF
NEXT X
FOR X = 1 TO NEWLISTL
 PRINT NEWLIST$(X)
NEXT X


My learners can begin to guess at what is going on.

But as I too am "that age" maybe I'm just being nostalgic.

Happy Friday

N
Entropy is not what it used to be
 
twofingers

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Joined: 02/06/2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 1682
Posted: 01:58pm 10 Feb 2023
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@Homa

Thanks for the notice!

Interesting (from page 77):
  Quote  Die Unterstützung der WLAN-Funktionen
des Pico W ist aus Speicherplatzgründen eher
nicht zu erwarten.

  Quote  The support of the WLAN functions
of the Pico W is due to storage space reasons rather
not to be expected.


Regards
Michael

EDIT:
See: https://www.thebackshed.com/forum/ViewTopic.php?FID=16&TID=15541
Edited 2023-02-11 00:21 by twofingers
causality ≠ correlation ≠ coincidence
 
JohnS
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Joined: 18/11/2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4147
Posted: 02:35pm 10 Feb 2023
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Not that I think everyone shojld learn or use C, but it's not too bad at this artificial test.  The original python isn't a full program but the other programs are so I made the C one also a full program:

#include <stdio.h>
#include <string.h>

char    *fruits[] = {"apple", "banana", "cherry", "kiwi", "mango"};
char    *newlist[5];

int main(void)
{
       int     i, n = 0;

       for (i = 0; i < 5; i++)
               if (strchr(fruits[i], 'a'))
                       newlist[n++] = fruits[i];
       for (i = 0; i < n; i++)
               puts(newlist[i]);
       return 0;
}


John
 
Nimue

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Joined: 06/08/2020
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 425
Posted: 03:21pm 10 Feb 2023
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@JohnS  -- my Python is functionally the same as the other two examples I gave, and produces output of "['apple', 'banana', 'mango']" when I run it as a script in Python -- with nothing else added  - not sure what's missing (sorry if I am missing the point)

  for the C example.

edited:  was a bit rude.

N
Edited 2023-02-11 01:22 by Nimue
Entropy is not what it used to be
 
karlelch

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Joined: 30/10/2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 274
Posted: 04:55pm 10 Feb 2023
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I authored the Make article.

  Quote  The support of the WLAN functions of the Pico W is due to storage space reasons rather not to be expected.


Well, until recently (a week ago?) the statement was it could not be done, absolutely not, no way - don't dare asking again. And then the weather in GB turned nasty ...

Next time, I'll consider the forecast before making such statements.
 
twofingers

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Joined: 02/06/2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 1682
Posted: 06:32pm 10 Feb 2023
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  karlelch said  I authored the Make article.

I already suspected that.

  karlelch said  Well, until recently (a week ago?) the statement was it could not be done, absolutely not, no way - don't dare asking again. And then the weather in GB turned nasty ...

Next time, I'll consider the forecast before making such statements.

 
I think it's good that MMBasic has now found its way into the MAKE magazine.
Good job!

Best regards
Michael
causality ≠ correlation ≠ coincidence
 
RonnS
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Joined: 16/07/2015
Location: Germany
Posts: 121
Posted: 10:41pm 10 Feb 2023
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  karlelch said  I authored the Make article.

  Quote  The support of the WLAN functions of the Pico W is due to storage space reasons rather not to be expected.


Well, until recently (a week ago?) the statement was it could not be done, absolutely not, no way - don't dare asking again. And then the weather in GB turned nasty ...

Next time, I'll consider the forecast before making such statements.


*rofl
 
JohnS
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Joined: 18/11/2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 4147
Posted: 01:19pm 11 Feb 2023
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  Nimue said  @JohnS  -- my Python is functionally the same as the other two examples I gave, and produces output of "['apple', 'banana', 'mango']" when I run it as a script in Python -- with nothing else added  - not sure what's missing (sorry if I am missing the point)

Apologies! It's fine as is.

(I agree it needs a bit of brain power to understand it... but there again I suppose various idioms are like that in quite a few languages. APL, Perl, Haskell, LISP etc can take some getting used to.)

John
 
Nimue

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Posted: 01:29pm 11 Feb 2023
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  JohnS said  (I agree it needs a bit of brain power to understand it... but there again I suppose various idioms are like that in quite a few languages. APL, Perl, Haskell, LISP etc can take some getting used to.)

John


I worked tech support for a software company whose main product was written in APL -- I offer the opinion that its purposefully difficult.    

Calculate the Average in APL:   Avg←{(+⌿⍵)÷≢⍵}

N
Entropy is not what it used to be
 
JohnS
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Posts: 4147
Posted: 01:38pm 11 Feb 2023
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OMG.

I don't envy you THAT job!!

John
 
homa

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Joined: 05/11/2021
Location: Germany
Posts: 496
Posted: 02:49pm 11 Feb 2023
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@karlelch (= Thomas ?!)
  karlelch said  I authored the Make article.

Super responses to the article!
Wir wird man eigentlich Make Autor?    

Wünschenswert fände ich eine MMBasic Projektreihe über mehrer Hefte und dabei anhand von coolen Projekten die Möglichkeiten zu lernen, anstatt nur einfach eine LED blinken zu lassen. Siehe die PIO Reihe hier im Forum. Vielleicht gibt es dann mehr Interesse.
Mich hatte damals das "TFT Maximite" aus der "c't Hardware Hacks" heute Make zum MMbasic gebracht. Leider kam nach der Änkündigung nichts mehr zu diesem Bausatz (ich habe diesen immer noch!)

You really could not have guessed that with the WLAN :-)
But nice that it came and comes! Many thanks to Peter!


I found the aspect with the Bluetooth module and the access to the Picomite interesting in the article. I had a similar idea and already got myself a used Digi Connect® ME with RealPort ;-)
So I can monitor my electricity meter via LAN ...

@Peter
I hope that there is also the possibility with the "Pico W" to access the MMbasic console directly via IP with Putty or Tera Term.

LG Matthias
 
karlelch

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Joined: 30/10/2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 274
Posted: 02:42pm 12 Feb 2023
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Hi Matthias,

  Quote  
@karlelch (= Thomas ?!)

Yes.

  Quote  
Super responses to the article!

Thanks.

  Quote  
Wir wird man eigentlich Make Autor?    

I started by suggesting ideas for articles (w/ exposé) based on projects that I did in my spare time.

  Quote  
Wünschenswert fände ich eine MMBasic Projektreihe über mehrer Hefte und dabei anhand von coolen Projekten die Möglichkeiten zu lernen, anstatt nur einfach eine LED blinken zu lassen. Siehe die PIO Reihe hier im Forum. Vielleicht gibt es dann mehr Interesse.

I thought about that. However, such an article may be quite complex. And if the PIO feature of the Pico was in the focus of the article, examples in MicroPython may reach a broader audience ... I think to make MMBasic more popular (outside Australia/New Zealand, that is), example projects may be more helpful. E.g. in the next Make there will be an article out a CO2 warning robot, implemented in MMBasic.

  Quote  
Mich hatte damals das "TFT Maximite" aus der "c't Hardware Hacks" heute Make zum MMbasic gebracht. Leider kam nach der Änkündigung nichts mehr zu diesem Bausatz (ich habe diesen immer noch!)

Yes, me too  

  Quote  
You really could not have guessed that with the WLAN :-)
But nice that it came and comes! Many thanks to Peter!

Yes, great work @Peter!

Best
Thomas
 
atmega8

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Joined: 19/11/2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 727
Posted: 04:21pm 12 Feb 2023
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@Peter
I hope that there is also the possibility with the "Pico W" to access the MMbasic console directly via IP with Putty or Tera Term.

LG Matthias


That would be a very very amazing and usefull feature!!!!
May be it is not that difficult to implement for Peter?!
SSH may be impossible, but a "simple" Telnet.
That will open a complete new World.....


Go for Gold, Peter.
Edited 2023-02-13 02:25 by atmega8
 
Frank N. Furter
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Joined: 28/05/2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 1002
Posted: 07:06pm 12 Feb 2023
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+1  

This would be absolutely fantastic!!!

Frank
 
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