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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Freetronics and Jaycar.
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| aargee Senior Member  Joined: 21/08/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 255 |
I just thought you guys would be interested in the following clip: Blatant copyright infringement by Jaycar Fairly pathetic from Gary Johnston's (Jaycar) point of view. For crying out loud, all I wanted to do was flash this blasted LED. |
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palcal Guru  Joined: 12/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1982 |
I have been dealing with Jaycar since they only had one store in Concord, Sydney, NSW. I just got on to their website and hit the Contact Us button and vented my anger. Why do large companies have to stoop so low, surely they could have designed their own kit. Paul. "It is better to be ignorant and ask a stupid question than to be plain Stupid and not ask at all" |
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9588 |
Incredible.  I would not have thought it of Jaycar - unfortunate.  I hope Dave(EEVblog) does a blab on it - Dave's channel has a lot of subscribers. Box changes etc notwithstanding, the booklet is a 1:1 copy on some pages, and that most definetly IS copyright infringment. The problem is that you have to have the money to take a big company like Jaycar to court over it, cos they will bury you in lawyers. It's pathetic and disgusting and all that. Ill-gotten-gain, but that is how most of those big companies get to where they are - by fisting the little guy. I hope this has a happy ending, but it probably won't. I will start avoiding Jaycar after this.  Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1314 |
Disgusting way of doing business Jaycar. Just posted to Australian electronics newsgroup. Cheers Don... https://www.dontronics.com |
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Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5116 |
Just be careful what you post guys, remember what you say online can be used legally against you. Make sure post facts and nothing defaming. The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5116 |
Yeah I think the best we can do is share this. Jaycar are a great electronics provider, but they need to know that this sort of activity is frowned on by the electronics community. Jaycar need to contact Freetronics and sort this out in a public and professional manner, their reputation depends on it. The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1314 |
Good point Gizmo. Cheers Don... https://www.dontronics.com |
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mikeb Senior Member Joined: 10/04/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 174 |
@aargee - Thanks for bringing this to our attention @Gizmo - Yes. Good point (as Don says) @all I thought that this was a disgraceful act by a well known Australian supplier. I have used them for many years but will only use when absolutely desperate now. They are sourcing cheaper quality components, particularly connectors, now anyway and I am not really in the market for all the novelty crap on offer. Altronics is a far better option.Greater range of higher quality components. Don is pretty darn good too(How is Penny Don?Taken over the reins from you yet?).  Vote with your custom, and wallet. It is the only, non combative, way that will drive the point home in no uncertain terms. There are plenty of other component suppliers out there, all with excellent delivery times. Keep up the great work guys. I'm learning heaps. Regards, Mike B. There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those that understand binary and those that don't. |
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| donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1314 |
Thanks Mike, yes, I am basically retired now, and Penny is running it. I am doing support for her. Bigmicks boards are the only new items we have taken on recently, but keeping them at minimal prices, much in line with what he has always sold at. Cheers Don... https://www.dontronics.com |
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| robert.rozee Guru Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 2428 |
it is certainly a shame to see jaycar do this sort of thing. it is also a rather reckless thing to do - as others have pointed out, any copyright infringement is limited to: 1. the box design, 2. the foam cutout layout, 3. the instruction booklet. really, if someone (like jaycar) wanted to put together an experimenter's kit, you would think they would be able to design their own (original) packaging and put together an instruction booklet. or licence the freetronics booklet. however, playing devil's advocate, the 'clone' kit is $20 cheaper. this does raise a valid question: if you were to create a shopping list of the kit contents (excluding booklet and packaging) on ebay, how much would the parts cost directly out of china? a quick survey leads my to offer an estimate of around $30 or less - including delivery. ebay china is not going to disappear any time soon, so how can anyone local compete? i've thought about this numerous times over the past few years, it seems like the only solution is for local suppliers to team up with the chinese ebay sellers and offer drop-shipping of products via their local (online) shopfronts, while taking a modest margin for providing backup support. as for bricks-and-mortar outlets, i see a bleak future. cheers, rob :-) |
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| Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5116 |
Personally, because I now know the background of this, I would make sure I buy the Freetronics kit, not the one from Jaycar. I believe most people would think the same way. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| isochronic Guru Joined: 21/01/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 689 |
At the gut level I have a lot of sympathy - it is galling to put a lot of hard work into something and then see someone else getting the benefit.. but then the Freetronics website says "Since then we've launched many new products and we're always busy creating more, following the Open Source principles of sharing our designs to let other people build on our work just as we've built on the work of others." so it is a bit of a mixed message. My impression is that the old man-month labour and supply-and-demand ideas do not work in the internet age. Labour is redundant; the man-month was based on a labourer moving ore etc manually with a shovel. Aus now exports a million tonnes of iron ore a day by machine... and information is intangible, products based on it can be copied and supplied and bought infinitely without the nitty-gritty of manufacture and physical distribution. The growth-based economics is being replaced with uh, "quantitative easing" in most economies, how much you get depends on politics more than any skill or hard yakka. It is hyper-supply and hyper-demand if anything. (ed) You could argue that effort itself (however necessary, and mindless or not) is in fact becoming counter-productive. |
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| mikeb Senior Member Joined: 10/04/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 174 |
@chronic You're right. It is an entirely mixed message. However, I think from a moral perspective, especially when it is for commercial sale, and monetary gain, they could have at least gone to the effort of changing the design of the box, foam cutout and manual. It really is just a copy and paste effort (and I say 'effort' loosely). I think the phrase 'build on our work' implies some effort on the part of those that come after. Having said that, thankyou for pointing out their own wording. It adds to the idea of debate and reasoning. Regards, Mike B. There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those that understand binary and those that don't. |
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| aargee Senior Member Joined: 21/08/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 255 |
I think we could discuss the sourcing of components and cost from China until the cows come home. What Freetronics have done with this kit is added creative content to bring all the raw components into a useful kit. The selection of the components, the presentation and the instruction manual are what make this attractive to the first time Arduino experimenter. For crying out loud, all I wanted to do was flash this blasted LED. |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4036 |
In case they've copied the wording / booklet etc then copyright infringement may be quite easy to pursue. Here, and many places laws are (or were!) similar, you would not even need a lawyer, plus the costs would be very small. We made our civil litigation quite simple and streamlined for many cases. Maybe it's similar there? Here, you follow a "protocol" (a sort of law recipe / flowchart). You'd start by writing to the defendant (it's known as a letter before action) saying what you say is wrong and what remedies you say would be fair. (Which might be such as an amount of money and no further use of your copyright. Always be fair, clear and precise as a judge may end up reading it.) You get the idea. See what your legalities are. John |
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CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2170 |
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hT0aG3SRpRY The five minute mark makes for tough watching in light of this post |
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