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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Windoze 10 vs Linux...
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9755 |
Cos of the size of the latest updates and how the latest updates seem to have really slowed up what was once a very zippy machine, I am getting serious about switching to Linux. I have not been able to entertain that idea before, as the CAD softwares I use are Windoze only, and the company are never going to release Linux versions - I asked them. That leaves me with two main options: 1) Setup a VM under Linux, running a simple and very clean version of Windoze and install my CAD softwares under that. 2) Setup WINE and PlayOnLinux GUI front-end and install my CAD software to that. Option two I have been playing around with in Linux Mint. I do rather like Mint. It is easy to work with from a Windoze users point of view, and installing stuff is the best I have come across in Linux, as it will tell you if what you want to install needs all these other dependencies, and Mint can install all of those for you, so the application you actually selected will run correctly. I have lost count of how many distros I have tried installing packages, only to be pestered with messages that that application needs other dependencies which are not on the machine. Easy to fix for a Linux guru, not so easy to fix if you are trying to migrate from Windoze. Anyhoo, I have installed the demo versions of the Windoze CAD softwares under WINE and PlayOnLinux, and to my delight, they run extremely well. So well, in fact, that I can't really notice any kind of drastic speed issue, which WAS an issue in the past when I tried to run these CAD programs in emulation under Linux. I have installed Mint alongside Zorin in dual-boot on a 120GB SSD. I could not get WINE or PlayOnLinux to install and run in Zorin, but it was very painless in Mint, so that is the front-runner at the moment. Mint also has a huge following and good support, so there is that too. I did notice that Mint took ages to install compared to Zorin, and it was probably about the same time as Windoze, if not longer. BUT, having said that, once done, it boots up fast and is really responsive. Something I cannot say about W10 these days. Did you guys and girls see how in the latest round of W10 updates, they are not backing up the registry anymore, as 'it takes up too much space.' When the updates are multi-GB in size, what the hell does a few hundred KB of registry matter?!?!! ...but I digress... Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| PeterB Guru  Joined: 05/02/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 655 |
G'Day Grogster. According to my reading, ZORIN comes with WINE but it may depend on the version. There are other flavours that claim to be WIn10 etc. I had been thinking that I can buy a reasonable "refurbished" PC for $220, ZORIN for $69 and get something to practise on for when WIN 7 is dead. The problem is, where do I put the thing? I have MINT on an old PC with WINE and managed to install ARDUINO IDE and MMEDIT. I have not tried to install FREE PCB, KCAM. Peter |
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| robert.rozee Guru Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 2464 |
hi, i've had very good success with linux mint, running it on a number of netbooks (2gb ram, 32gb flash, intel celeron processor). i did briefly experiment with wine, but found it a tad bloated and convoluted to get working satisfactorily. my few experiments with VMs under mint have also been very positive. i'd suggest creating a win7 VM that does not have access to the internet and use that to run any windows applications you need. without the VM having internet access, there is almost no reason to worry about security and AV software, giving a very lean setup. btw, i always set up linux systems for human use with a single user (usually called 'user') and the password the same as the username. i then turn on automatic login and turn off password required after exiting screensaver. this means about the only time the user is promoted for a password is when doing updates; i also keep automatic updates turned off. cheers, rob :-) |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9755 |
@ PeterB - I could not work out how to get WINE working in ZORIN.  @ Rob - Well, I have now installed all my CAD software under WINE, and it seems to be working just fine. However, I have also installed the Linux version of QCAD, which was done in a terminal, which was a little frightening, but it WORKED, and it even put an icon on the Linux desktop for me.  Minimum requirements for my other CAD is Win-XP, so I could install a minimal XP in VM as you say, but just deny it any internet access. That XP VM would ONLY have the basic XP OS and the three Windoze-only CAD programs in it. QUESTION: Is it generally a better idea in Linux, to use a Windoze VM for Windoze software over WINE? My CAD software has installed fine via WINE, and seems to run just fine.... Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| PeterB Guru Joined: 05/02/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 655 |
G'Day Grogster Does this help or confuse? How do you use Zorin wine? Zorin OS allows you to install many Windows apps using the built-in Wine runtime. ... Windows Apps Open the Zorin Menu and go to "Wine" > "PlayOnLinux". Click on "Install" to browse the list of apps available to download and install. Select the app you want to install and press "Install". Peter I left out the P |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9755 |
I will reboot back into Zorin, and check that out. I may have ruined things a little, as not being aware that Zorin had WINE in it already, I tried to download and install WINE and PlayOnLinux. This may have corrupted things.  Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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plover Guru Joined: 18/04/2013 Location: AustraliaPosts: 306 |
Been through that process Wine/VMs I would lean towards using VMs and a bit more strongly if you can get away with XP. |
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radar Newbie  Joined: 09/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 16 |
[quote="Grogster"]QUESTION:Is it generally a better idea in Linux, to use a Windoze VM for Windoze software over WINE?[/quote]. hi Grog , I have used most methods of running bills software over nix , And i think it boils down to what works for you is best . They all have caveats depending what type of software Ur trying to run, Example: Win/VM you might be needing HASP copy protection to run via the LPT port , that can be configured to work depending on the Flavor of nix and how much Hair/Time you've got to spare XP/VM generaly requires 10Gb or so , Don't forget it will like a page file inside the image . Give CrossOver from Codeweavers a look. Runs win software without needing a Virtual/Machine So it keeps the disk size down and integration between nix/win kernels is quite good . But if your software is working ok now , Remember if it aint broke don't fix-it . |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9755 |
Thanks for the input, chums. I will play around a bit more with WINE, and I will also check out CrossOver - had not heard of that one, so thanks radar. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." - such a true statement. I will take it under advisement.  This the the thing with Linux - ALL Linux. You can change absolutely ANYTHING. In Windoze, you cannot. In some ways, that makes Windoze easier to deal with, as certain doors are simply nailed shut. Linux, on the other hand, cos you can configure it to suit yourself in pretty much ANY area of the OS, that opens a whole plethora of doors to things and makes it EXTREMELY complicated to newbies coming from Windoze.  Having said that, I can still see the benefits of Linux over Windoze, as a Windoze user all my life. I have a couple of NAS boxes on my network, and they run Linux. Why? I found it to be rock-solid over long periods of time, which Windoze often was not, cos it wanted to reboot for updates and other crap every so often. A Linux SAMBA server just sits there 24/7 and does its thing, and does not care about anything other then what you have set it up to do. A SAMABA file-server can also be run on some old hardware, whereas Windoze Server etc require a certain level of hardware before you can even run it. And, naturally, the biggest thing in Linux's favour is that it is FREE. Windoze Server is not, and more then that, it is rather expensive actually.... Rant, rant, rant....sorry....  Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| tgerbic Regular Member  Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 94 |
Folks, I have been living in both worlds (windows/linux) for decades and have settled into a configuration that works well for me. You might find less struggle in a similar environment. Wine is a great environment but still does not give you all that a Windows environment can. I am not talking about grief, rather compatibility :) What I am running now is a multicore Fedora Linux workstation. I run as many applications as work under Linux as possible. I will try to install Windows apps under Wine and have a couple old ones that will work with DOSbox. That exhausts my choices for running Windows apps under linux. For all other Windows apps I use Oracle VirtualBox. I have two primary VMs, Windows 10 and Windows XP. I am still getting XP security updates and have an up to date virus checker on the VM so I am not to concerned about XP. I run all my old engineering apps, CAD, Ultiboard, Acrobat PRO and other apps on the XP system. Some will not run beyond XP and others are US$1000s to upgrade. I have moved all the apps that will not run on Linux or XP to Windows 10. Everything runs smoothly. Don't have app crashes or need to fiddle with Wine. I want to use the computer for my hobby adventures, not as an IT training tool. One important advantage of running the VMs is that you can easily make clones of the VMs, and I make two new clones when I make changes to the VMs so they closely mirror the primary VMs. This is great if you run into a case of a bad Windows crash, you need to back out some difficult OS/app changes or if a virus somehow got to the WIndows app/OS. No need to rebuild the OS, just switch to a backup. Depending on how you setup disk access, you can insulate the VMs from Linux and each other. Samba is a great app but Windows 8/10 seem to be the first versions designed not to easy work with Samba. Not sure but it feels like this is on purpose. I don't fight with Windows machines for connectivity. I open a command prompt and do a "net use" to connect external Windows machines with Samba shares and use the persistent option. From that point forward the share always shows up in the file explorer as another drive letter. This is how I deal with all these OS and Samba problems. It may not work for you but it works great for me. Regards |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9755 |
Hello tgerbic. Welcome to the forums. Please stick with them, as the admin is busy completely rewriting the forum code. Things normally look much sexier then this. So, it would seem that the current preference for Windoze only apps, is to run them in a fully self-contained VM under Linux. Is that what you are saying? I get that vibe from other members on this thread... I don't really care - I can run a minimal XP VM no problems, if it is likely to cause less of a problem going forward. I would like to know how you go about accessing files saved in a VM, to the native Linux filesystem, so that I can then 7ZIP those files for sending to the manufacturer. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| radar Newbie Joined: 09/06/2019 Location: AustraliaPosts: 16 |
Grog within the XP/VM Os on the desktop select Devices/shared Folders/Shared Folders Settings <img src="uploads/radar/2019-07-28_210924_Shared.Folders.Settings.png" alt="Shared.Folders.Settings" width="719" height="388"> <br /> A new window opens <br> In the new window select "Adds new shared folder" Icon with + <br /> <img src="uploads/radar/2019-07-28_212805_Shared.Folders.png" alt="Shared.Folders" width="666" height="420"> <br><br> The Add share Wizard opens , <br> <img src="uploads/radar/2019-07-28_213024_Add.Share.2.png" alt="Add.Share.2" width="345" height="293"> <br><br> Tick Auto-mount + Make Permanent , Select Folder Path "Other" <br /> A New window opens <br /> <img src="uploads/radar/2019-07-28_233625_Add.Share.png" alt="Add.Share" width="682" height="369"> <br /> Then Scroll down to a folder on you Linux file system And select it . Make sure to select THE OK Button on both windows , <br /> The folder should be now listed in the " Shared.Folders.Settings " from Step 1 . <br /> Go to xp desktop Right click My Computer Select " Map network Drive " <br /> <img src="uploads/radar/2019-07-28_213312_Map.Network.Drive.JPG" alt="Map.Network.Drive" width="316" height="515"> <br><br> Map network Drive Wizard opens <br><br> <img src="uploads/radar/2019-07-28_214023_Browse.For.Folder.jpg" alt="Browse.For.Folder" width="777" height="516"> <br><br> Select The drive letter you would like assigned to the new drive. <br /> Tick Reconnect at logon Box , Then Select Browse Button . And Browse to the Virtualbox Shared Folders/ Expand to find the folder you set up in first step . <br><br> If you look in the my computer window you should see under network drives your linux shared folder, <br> You will need to have guest additions installed to achieve shared folders os2os . <a href=http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E36500_01/E36502/html/qs-guest-additions.html>Installing the VirtualBox Guest Additions</a></p> That is one way to do it , <br> You can also do the same thing from the Virtualbox Manager Settings Icon. <br><br> Or you can as <br><br> The syntax of what tgerbic is referring to is the popup you see from the shared folders wizard 2nd img in the post. <br><br> <img src="uploads/radar/2019-07-29_001951_Sharing.Syntax.png" alt="Browse.For.Folder" width="310" height="175" <br /> <br><br> So you can take your pic , Use GUI hobby adventures way, Or the shell IT training tool Way . |
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| tgerbic Regular Member Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 94 |
radar may have answered this but I cannot see the pictures. Will image support be here soon, are there some settings I am unaware of or should I take a crack at a verbal explanation? Regards |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9755 |
No, I can't see the images either. Gizmo(forum admin) is working hard to port the forum to new code, so I expect that images are simply not supported just at the moment, till he gets all the vitals working again. I think I get what radar was trying to tell me, so I will have another play with that later. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4135 |
Somehow the images appear to be in "angle brackets" (less than and greater than characters i.e < and >) but probably should be in "square brackets" (i.e. [ and ]). John |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9755 |
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| BrianP Senior Member  Joined: 30/03/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 292 |
Hi all You do know that in the the latest (& greatest according to MS) Win10 you need to go into Programs & Features, then on the left hand side select Turn Windows Features on & Off, scroll down & select SMB 1.0/CIFS file sharing support to enable networking to what MS thinks is "old crap". They turned this off by default because of security worries - but we all know what we are doing, don't we  |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9755 |
Hi, yep, I know about that, but my SAMBA shares on the Linux boxes are at least SMB 2, so W10 should not care about having to enable SMB1. I did enable SMB1 way back when MS just closed that door on people, but it made no difference at all to W10 being able to see SAMBA shares without putting in the IP address and full path to the shares. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| tgerbic Regular Member Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 94 |
Team, Sorry for the delay in responding, I am finishing up my PS/2 keyboard project. Lost a lot of time fixing the GCB PS/2.h file, expanding the supported keys and sorting out some strange behavior in the Hserial output. Neat compiler. Also hoping someone will figure out the posted image problem, if it should be working, or at least have an ETA when it will be working. I can provide my setup and and commands to get Samba working between Linux and W10. The ability to post images would be a great time saver. A working example is a good place to start from. I should be in front of the Linux system Tuesday. Regards |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9755 |
Thanks for coming back. You just picked a bad time to sign up, but you are most welcome here. Only bad, cos admin is completely rewriting the forum code, but also trying to keep the forums online while he does that - not an easy thing. Please do stick around - once admin has finished revamping, things will be much sexier, and image posting etc will be back online again. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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