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SimpleSafeName Senior Member  Joined: 28/07/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 286 |
If nothing else, I now have a new word to use on the noobs at work. Thanks! Edited 2019-12-29 00:50 by SimpleSafeName |
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Poppy Guru  Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
Didn´t mean that, blaming on school totally would be too easy and wrong. I blame it on the naked economic system, not the people working within! Young people are looking for inspiration, guidance, idols, icons whatever ... this also explains that "Influencer"-Bullsh*t going on on Youtube and all that other (non-)social networks. Good teachers give good examples influencing students! In my case I always had good marks in subjects where teachers really inspired me, those who can make simple, boring or in young kid´s opinion very useless schoolstuff become alive and interesting. In all other subjects I regularly had no good or even no marks at all for my consequent absence.  At University I also preferred reading textbooks at home rather than being bored by teachers who just do vocally play back their own scripts (being available for reading at home as well).I think it is all a matter of positively arousing interests and that depends on those who really can do that. Not only teachers, everyone of us who might have this great ability! ... and of cause the appropriate tool must be available, just like BASIC (as a particular example, not a general solution, but specially MMBASIC in my opinion) It is not just about learning or learning to learn, these are just the first 2 steps in my opinion, it is about becoming able to question, reconsider and work with all knowledge even in an uncommitted way. And if doing so makes real fun then it is not considered being a burden or distress. Metaphorically for me it comes back to the flame, how to ignite it and keeping it burning. In which direction it runs isn´t so important, as long as it will not become destructive, the rest will all come by itself. But we must give offers and opportunities in all directions and some are just disregarded, just like understanding programs in general.  Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
| Poppy Guru Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
If your noobs directly come from University, over-theorizing everything and not being able to find a simple solution for a practical problem or being something very equal ... those from the ivory tower, this is it! The cumulation of too much Headwanking is getting your brain f*cked up ... ... starting with some headache for those who can feel it. Not healthy!  The competent practitioner would probably say "Get a hammer and stop headwanking!" Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
| SimpleSafeName Senior Member Joined: 28/07/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 286 |
If your noobs directly come from University, over-theorizing everything and not being able to find a simple solution for a practical problem or being something very equal ... those from the ivory tower, this is it! The cumulation of too much Headwanking is getting your brain f*cked up ... ... starting with some headache for those who can feel it. Not healthy! The competent practitioner would probably say "Get a hammer and stop headwanking!" Nah, he is a young junkyard dog that came up through the ranks. He's a good kid, there's hope for him yet. :) |
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Quazee137 Guru Joined: 07/08/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 522 |
Here hoping that most teaching will go with a book-lectures start but end with hands on. I think more of the book-lectures are retained much better when followed with real work be it labs or field work. Years ago my friend worked for a power company that had reservoirs to assist in peak power production. He was tasked with hiring two college graduates. What he found most disturbing was out of thirty only one could go from paper to hands on. The one had done a year of electrical trade school before affording collage. Myself found the same doing a few research grants where we had to make all our test boards and work out how the research would be done. Most that came only from college with no other work had a harder time going from concept to reality. Edited 2019-12-29 18:36 by Quazee137 |
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| PeterB Guru Joined: 05/02/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 639 |
G'Day Quazee et al I started as an Apprentice then Technician and eventually Engineer so I am very hands on however that can be a mixed blessing. If somebody wanted something to do a particular job I would rush into my lab and begin designing and building like crazy. What I had trouble with was standing back and having a deep think. Is it really what he wants? can I buy one? and so forth. After 40 years I think I was still a quite good Tech but a so-so Engineer. But I did have a lot of fun and still do Peter |
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| lizby Guru Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3010 |
PeterB--I understand you, though my engineering was "software engineering" (put in quotes so you hardware engineers don't scoff too freely). I always wanted to do the "hot" jobs, or make (and be) the "hot jobs" section if there wasn't one. Documentation might not have been up to par, but the users were happier (and the users in this case were truly the engines which drove the whole production). I was cheered by a manager who used to say, "The best documentation is a working program". As fate would have it, I was once on the wrong end of that philosophy, tasked with adding full text searches to an absolutely brilliant early data base system (1977) written by a guy at the Library of Congress--hundreds of pages of IBM assembly language where the only comments might be at the head of a routine: "implementation of X's algorithm for Y from Volume Z of the Journal of the Association for Computing Machinery". PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
I followed a similar career path myself, always hands on right up to the day I retired. In the public service there are two parallel "technical" career paths, Technical Officers, and Engineers. The technical officers do real stuff. The engineers attend meetings and drink coffee. When I reached Technical officer grade five and managing a department at a fairly young age, I figured it was time to leave the public service and launch myself as an engineer and get back into doing real technical hands on things. In the public service the HR people only want to know if you have that piece of paper. Its very different in private industry, where you are going to be interviewed by the man that owns the company. So you are an engineer (?) What steps would you take in the following really dire circumstances.... That would probably stump many new graduates. But a real hands on techie would have a practical, theoretical, and a very confident answer. And get the job. The existence or non existence of the magic piece of paper being irrelevant. Its what you can do for the company is all that matters. Cheers, Tony. |
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| PeterB Guru Joined: 05/02/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 639 |
I thought that this topic has probably gone too far off and too long but it has gone full circle. To reply to Tony, if I was in my office and my feet were on the desk it meant I was working hard and earning my pay, that is, trying to solve a problem. The code if required would come later from a flow chart generated on my big white board or my big table. In other words, defining the problem is the hard part. If my feet were on the floor it meant I was having fun in the lab. Lizby, I did get upset many years ago when reading 8085 ASM code I came to something like: LDI :load immediate. I thought that was a waste of electrons.  Peter |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
Pretty much the same with designing hardware. Sometimes the greatest inspirations and innovations come while out walking the dog, or soaking in a nice hot bath. Cheers, Tony. |
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| PeterB Guru Joined: 05/02/2015 Location: AustraliaPosts: 639 |
NO! never the bath. Look what happened to Archimedes. And the paper gets wet and the ink runs. Better the wood heap for solving problems. And all my problems were primarily hardware but often with software and they still are. Peter |
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| Warpspeed Guru Joined: 09/08/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 4406 |
I always left the bits and bytes to the practitioners of magic, and concentrated on more earthly things. Cheers, Tony. |
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| Tinine Guru Joined: 30/03/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1646 |
AKA: Imagineer This is how I regard myself  |
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| Poppy Guru Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
Nice term! And the apprentice is called Imaginee?! Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
| BrianP Senior Member Joined: 30/03/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 292 |
AND, we all need to have experienced letting the smoke out... (knowing / finding the physical limits) |
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CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1985 |
in my time, we first-year apprentices were considered low forms of life and termed "apprentipedes" |
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| Poppy Guru Joined: 25/07/2019 Location: GermanyPosts: 486 |
Great! "Life's not easy at the bottom" or ... What the instructor does not have in his head, the apprentice must have in his feet! In Germany it was said ("was" because actually times changed by legal matter): "Lehrjahre sind keine Herrenjahre!" meaning something like: "The years of apprenticeship are no years in a master´s position!" ... originally for being abused to do non professional work like doing the instructor´s home- or any private work.  Andre ... such a GURU? | ||||
| SimpleSafeName Senior Member Joined: 28/07/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 286 |
When I was an apprentice, I used to dig so many ditches that I told people that my real name was "Manuel Laborez". :) |
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