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toml_12953
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Joined: 13/02/2015
Location: United States
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Posted: 01:06am 30 Nov 2020

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If you've been reading my posts, you'll know that my CMM2 is doing very strange things. So my question is, are there any diagnostics I can run to thoroughly test my system? It's getting nerve-wracking always worrying that something I might do will lock up and maybe damage my system. This situation also destroys my confidence in any programs I run. If I could find a good diagnostic, I might be able to relax a bit.

Thanks for any leads you might be able to give!

TassyJim

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Joined: 07/08/2011
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Posted: 01:53am 30 Nov 2020

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I don't think you have told us which system you have.
There are at least 4 different board layouts out there as well as a number of home-brew ones.

They should all work the same but knowing what we are looking at will help.

Did you do as I suggested in another post. "Remove the battery with power off"
That should give you the request to set the clock and keyboard next time you start it.

When you say "my unit restarts to the USB keyboard prompt" do you mean it's asking to set the keyboard or the '>' prompt appears?

If you are getting corrupted config settings, I would look at the battery voltage. If that's marginal, it 'could' be the problem.

Most issues so far have been either incompatible keyboards and/or unsuitable USB power cables or power supplies.

Jim

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toml_12953
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Posted: 02:02am 30 Nov 2020

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TassyJim said I don't think you have told us which system you have.
There are at least 4 different board layouts out there as well as a number of home-brew ones.

They should all work the same but knowing what we are looking at will help.

Did you do as I suggested in another post. "Remove the battery with power off"
That should give you the request to set the clock and keyboard next time you start it.

When you say "my unit restarts to the USB keyboard prompt" do you mean it's asking to set the keyboard or the '>' prompt appears?

If you are getting corrupted config settings, I would look at the battery voltage. If that's marginal, it 'could' be the problem.

Most issues so far have been either incompatible keyboards and/or unsuitable USB power cables or power supplies.

Jim

I have the one from Rictech Ltd in New Zealand. They've been very responsive to all my questions and I have no problem with the company at all.

By USB keyboard prompt, I mean it's asking what country layout to use for the keyboard, followed by the time and date prompts. Just like I had removed the battery. The CR1220 is a brand-new Energizer Lithium. I can order some other brand, I suppose. We can't find them at all here in northern New York State. I've now tried five power supplies and three different USB cables in various combinations. It doesn't seem to make any difference.

TassyJim

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Location: Australia
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Posted: 02:13am 30 Nov 2020

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Start with measuring the battery voltage using:

print pin("BAT")

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toml_12953
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Posted: 02:49am 30 Nov 2020

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TassyJim said Start with measuring the battery voltage using:

print pin("BAT")

3.212433051

Paul_L
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Posted: 05:05am 30 Nov 2020

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Hey Tom,

Are you anywhere near Upper Rhode Pond??? If so, you're about 40 miles north of my location near Fishkill Plains.

The CR1220 lithium coin cell is available near me at Walmart, Staples, Lowes, Home Depot, Walgreens, Target and CVS. Replacements include DL1220, ECR1220, BR1220, 280-208, DL1220B, BR1220-1W, CR1220-1W, KCR1220, LM1220, 5012LC, SB-T13, and L04.

Paul in NY

toml_12953
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Posted: 05:09am 30 Nov 2020

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Paul_L said Hey Tom,

Are you anywhere near Upper Rhode Pond??? If so, you're about 40 miles north of my location near Fishkill Plains.

The CR1220 lithium coin cell is available near me at Walmart, Staples, Lowes, Home Depot, Walgreens, Target and CVS. Replacements include DL1220, ECR1220, BR1220, 280-208, DL1220B, BR1220-1W, CR1220-1W, KCR1220, LM1220, 5012LC, SB-T13, and L04.

Paul in NY

More like 291 miles north of FP. I'm just about 9 miles from the Canadian border. Thanks, though. My battery seems to be OK with 3.2+ V.

LeoNicolas

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Joined: 07/10/2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 438

Posted: 05:33am 30 Nov 2020

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toml_12953 said

TassyJim said Start with measuring the battery voltage using:

print pin("BAT")

3.212433051

I'm having the same problem. Even using a new battery my CCM2 always starts asking me to configure the keyboard and clock.

The current battery voltage is 3.34V. Is it ok?

My CMM2 is the model with the Waveshare board.

Turbo46

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Joined: 24/12/2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 1588

Posted: 05:35am 30 Nov 2020

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It still could be a hardware fault. Possibly power supply related. Maybe a faulty or damaged USB connector. While it is running, wriggle the power USB plug, gently try to push the female USB connector on the board a little right, left, forward, back, try to gently flex the board in several spots by pushing it with something insulated like the top of a pen.

NOTE: GENTLY.

With a strong light and a strong magnifier inspect the top of the board for any possible dry joints

Turn it off and remove the board. Have a look underneath with a strong magnifier for any possible dry solder joints or solder bridges. Be ESD safe while doing that.

Google ESD if you don't know what that means.

Bill

Keep safe. Live long and prosper.

TassyJim

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Posted: 06:50am 30 Nov 2020

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LeoNicolas said
I'm having the same problem. Even using a new battery my CCM2 always starts asking me to configure the keyboard and clock.

The current battery voltage is 3.34V. Is it ok?

My CMM2 is the model with the Waveshare board.

With the Waveshare models, you have to remove the 'vref' and 'vbat' jumpers.
3.34V seems a bit high to me which is why I suspect the jumpers.
Leaving the jumpers in place will flatten the battery very quickly but still show OK when running.

The all-in-one versions don't have the jumpers but I would clean the battery and holder to make sure it's making good contact. One good voltage reading is good but not definitive.

As a check, the firmware looks at the year and decides if that is feasible or needs to be reset.
This means that you can't skip over the date setting part.

Jim

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LeoNicolas

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Posted: 07:09am 30 Nov 2020

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TassyJim said

Hey Jim

You are right. I've removed the jumpers and the state was maintained.

Thank you

toml_12953
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Posted: 09:16am 30 Nov 2020

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In the following loop, the voltage is 3.18xxxxx (the xxxxx varies)

do
print pin("bat")
loop until inkey$<>""

I don't think my problem is battery related, though. It seems too consistent. Every time I use OPTION RAM or OPTION FLASH x (where x can be any number 0 - 7) the lockup problems happen.

If I do OPTION SD TIMING FAST, then OPTION LIST shows
OPTION BAUDRATE 65536
OPTION TAB 0
OPTION FLASH 32xxx (I don't remember exactly what number shows)

along with the other OPTIONS.

robert.rozee
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Joined: 31/12/2012
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Posted: 10:14am 30 Nov 2020

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OPTION BAUDRATE 65536
OPTION FLASH 32xxx

these both look very wrong. according to the cmm2 manual the FLASH option has valid settings between 0 and 7, while 65536 is not any standard baud rate. hopefully peter can comment on the significance of these.

it strikes me that it would be useful to have a separate 'diagnostics' firmware that can be loaded onto a problematic CMM2 that does testing at a lower level than an mmbasic program or the mmbasic firmware can reach.

for instance: go through the external RAM writing a pseudo-random sequence of values, then go through the external RAM a second time reading back the values to make sure they match. this would pick up on shorts between address lines, stuck address lines, or open address lines, along with verifying the data lines. note: the external RAM lines (in the case of the waveshare module) are all brought right out of the module and down to the motherboard, but not connected to anything once there.

a set of basic tests could also be devised for the USB keyboard (talking to the keyboard controller and confirming a response comes back, flashing the LEDs), console loopback, and RTC + RTC RAM.

the above could be contained in a very small firmware image, that was either fully automated (running in a loop) or controlled by linking pairs of pins on the 40-pin connector. the image would be loaded instead of the mmbasic firmware.

cheers,
rob :-)

toml_12953
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Posted: 10:19am 30 Nov 2020

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robert.rozee said

OPTION BAUDRATE 65536
OPTION FLASH 32xxx

Yes! Those values do look wrong as does TAB 0. On my unit, they're consistently wrong when I use OPTION SD TIMING FAST and the lockups and resetting consistently occur when using OPTION RAM or OPTION FLASH.

Your suggestion is exactly what I'm looking for - a comprehensive, exhaustive test of all system components.
Edited 2020-11-30 20:22 by toml_12953

JohnS
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Joined: 18/11/2011
Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: 10:23am 30 Nov 2020

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toml_12953 said So my question is, are there any diagnostics I can run to thoroughly test my system?

Realistically with the kinds of problems you've hit I suspect a DVOM (a meter, most likely on Volts) is going to be best. �Possibly a 'scope.

But of course check:
1. you've got any jumpers in or removed as required
2. you've got working i.e. good cables
3. you've got working i.e. good power / power supply

Trying to debug hardware problems of the kind reported is tough / impossible using software.

edit: as Rob says, some memory faults CAN be found using software but I'd like to mention some are REALLY HARD to detect using software (not least because you tend to get a crash and silence but no idea why)

John
Edited 2020-11-30 20:25 by JohnS

Paul_L
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Posted: 07:23pm 30 Nov 2020

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toml_12953 said

More like 291 miles north of FP. I'm just about 9 miles from the Canadian border. Thanks, though. My battery seems to be OK with 3.2+ V.

Awww shucks, I thought I had found a neighbor. That's really upstate NY! The Saint Lawrence River valley.

It's been quite a while since I was up there. There used to be a really good restaurant in Rouses Point called the Anchorage but it had a bad fire about 1990 and it wasn't as good after being rebuilt. It was a shame ... it was a beautiful building.

I can imagine that you would have trouble finding a CR1220 coin cell up there! There are Walmarts in Watertown, Ogdensburg, Massena and Plattsburg which is pretty diffuse. If I can help by buying stuff down here and mailing it to you let me know.

Paul in NY
Edited 2020-12-01 05:34 by Paul_L

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