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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : It's time to let Windows update run!!!

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Paul_L
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Posted: 10:27pm 03 Jun 2021
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The May update has been well digested and it doesn't seem to be causing any problems, so now is the time to allow Windows to update itself before Patch Tuesday (6/8) gets here.

1. Use CCleaner to remove today's trash files.
2. Make an image backup of your system disk. (I use Macrium Reflect.)
  Test your ability to boot from a rescue disk!
3. Make a file copy of selective data files as needed. (I use ROBOCOPY.)
4. Select START > PC SETTINGS > UPDATE & SECURITY > RESUME UPDATES
  Don't install optional updates or driver updates.
  Get needed drive updates from the hardware manufacturer's website.
5. When the update is finished click back to
  START > PC SETTINGS > UPDATE & SECURITY >
  and repetitively click on PAUSE UPDATES until it stops working.
  It should tell you that updates will be deferred until July 8.

Relax for a month when we get to do it all over again.

Paul in NY
 
hitsware2

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Posted: 12:23am 04 Jun 2021
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If you have some things that demand Windows :

1) Get an inexpensive WIN10 PC ( DO NOT CONNECT TO INTERNET ! )

2) At first boot select ' no internet available '

3) Use alternate internet connected PC to transfer files ( USB stick )
  to / from Windows machine .
my site
 
Tinine
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Joined: 30/03/2016
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Posted: 01:12am 04 Jun 2021
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Falls on deaf ears
 
Volhout
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Posted: 06:40am 04 Jun 2021
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  hitsware2 said  If you have some things that demand Windows :

1) Get an inexpensive WIN10 PC ( DO NOT CONNECT TO INTERNET ! )

2) At first boot select ' no internet available '

3) Use alternate internet connected PC to transfer files ( USB stick )
  to / from Windows machine .


That is more or less how I work. I have 1 PC W10 that controls my CNC and I use to run tools that do not exist outside Windows environment. Immediate after purchase I had it patched by the shops repair guys, so it would not ever take updates (W10-HOME). WIFI turned off in BIOS. USB sticks to transfer data to it.

The Internet connection is on linux machines. Only the data I download goes to the W10 PC. I know there is risk in PDF's JPEG's Office documents (macro's). Try to stay away from that (well...pdf's are the weak spot...need them often).
PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS
 
lizby
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Posted: 11:42am 04 Jun 2021
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  Volhout said  I know there is risk in PDF's JPEG's Office documents (macro's).

I understand the risk from macros in office documents, and I've heard of risk in PDFs and JPEGs, but don't know the mechanisms. Does someone have a link to what they are?
PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed
 
JohnS
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Posted: 11:52am 04 Jun 2021
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One of the biggest risks is using Adobe's software to do things such as open a PDF because Adobe put things in that to many people made no sense.

Opening a PDF with open source programs is probably (*) safe.

(*) I suppose you'd have to check the actual code to be sure

John
 
PeteCotton

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Posted: 04:54pm 04 Jun 2021
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I have somewhere around 20 Windows 10 PCs in my house (between gaming rigs and laptops for my kids, media centres, servers etc.) - heck probably more now that I start to count them up - I don't think I've ever had issues with any of them updating, apart for a Latte-Panda System with only 32GB storage - which keeps filling up and running out of storage on every update.

I do have updates switched off on my Windows 10 IoT installations - but again - just because of storage reasons.

Are you seeing repeated issues with the updates?
 
hitsware2

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Posted: 06:14pm 04 Jun 2021
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My Wife does have a WIN-10 PC .

1) Last time around the update lost her wallpaper
  picture ( which she used for years )
  ( But not often something so catastrophic )

2) YES ! Filling up storage .... It ' s like a conspiracy
  ( Bill Gates and PC makers ) .... One needs a new PC
  every so often , because the old one ' fills up '
my site
 
Paul_L
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Posted: 05:32am 05 Jun 2021
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@PeteCotton -- The updates come out on the second Tuesday of each month. Bugs immediately surface. It takes Microsoft a few weeks to squash most of them. The safest way of handling the monthly updates is to wait until just before the next batch comes out, make an image backup and then let Windows do its stuff. This month the patches will show up on June 8. You should finish updating before then.

@hitsware2 -- I have an archive of Macrium Reflect image backup files. I don't bother to delete the older ones when I make a new one every month. Each backup is a complete copy of my C drive. I try to keep all my data on other drives. Here's a list of the recent image files.

04/30/2020  12:44 AM    34,870,482,273 779294F348FAE6DA-00-00.mrimg
05/10/2020  04:54 AM    28,087,133,537 E04FAF8C33E825AB-00-00.mrimg
06/08/2020  10:40 PM    28,243,211,617 2D65E8362232E2E8-00-00.mrimg
06/19/2020  02:16 AM    28,039,583,073 8EA2CBA2F0EC55DE-00-00.mrimg
06/21/2020  12:49 AM    27,910,251,873 A05DFF19008867A3-00-00.mrimg
07/12/2020  01:24 AM    22,525,400,417 72644204D80EFF63-00-00.mrimg
08/07/2020  12:17 AM    26,715,436,385 26684CDAB33439B9-00-00.mrimg
09/09/2020  08:58 AM    25,941,431,649 AD0B16C6299BCCF8-00-00.mrimg
09/13/2020  07:56 AM    25,552,774,497 B16D9569B3284D41-00-00.mrimg
10/05/2020  01:04 AM    27,223,569,761 B3B94413D8A2C589-00-00.mrimg
11/14/2020  06:12 PM    28,184,188,257 63E27AEF9382B2EF-00-00.mrimg
11/14/2020  06:37 AM    28,198,102,369 FCA397A2030F5916-00-00.mrimg
11/16/2020  06:56 AM    28,118,439,265 FB8E8D235946B92A-00-00.mrimg
11/24/2020  08:13 PM    29,216,523,617 B3A7C75B8BEF7256-00-00.mrimg
01/02/2021  08:20 AM    29,317,847,045 3956A0C26BD4D054-00-00.mrimg
01/04/2021  05:38 AM    29,275,100,323 B9B9F8164DEA4680-00-00.mrimg
02/02/2021  02:39 AM    29,826,725,772 E2740035D7A90A2E-00-00.mrimg
03/03/2021  02:41 AM    29,657,200,842 2F72FA9997BAA9A7-00-00.mrimg
04/05/2021  11:56 PM    30,123,455,841 8CBCFF409DCF4D42-00-00.mrimg
04/11/2021  09:35 PM    30,707,139,937 26A840F5D819E7CD-00-00.mrimg
05/03/2021  08:27 AM    27,653,133,665 D201D3DF29A2FB5A-00-00.mrimg
06/03/2021  02:14 AM    30,167,172,449 74F4E5E22DA54E81-00-00.mrimg

As you can see there is no clear pattern of increasing size each month. I will occasionally add or remove a program which is on C: which will change the total size of the files on C:, but that doesn't happen frequently. Indeed there are two sudden drops in the space occupied by the system and programs, one on 6/8/20 and another on 5/3/21. These seem to be associated with Windows feature changes which usually decrease the size of the OS. It's just not true that Windows keeps gobbling up increasing amounts of disk space.

The major deficiency in Windows is the algorithm used to determine the sector to begin writing a new file which leads to unnecessary fragmentation. UNIX/LINUX share a much more efficient algorithm which results in much less disk fragmentation and therefore reduced long distance seeks for the disk heads which increases wear on the drive mechanics. UNIX/LINUX however leaves larger chunks of unoccupied space on the platters which sometimes results in slower drive performance with less mechanical wear, since the average head traversal is longer.

The continuous introduction of dubious new "features" is annoying but not fatal to the OS in my opinion.

Paul in NY
Edited 2021-06-05 15:34 by Paul_L
 
PeteCotton

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Joined: 13/08/2020
Location: Canada
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Posted: 06:13am 05 Jun 2021
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  Paul_L said  @PeteCotton -- The updates come out on the second Tuesday of each month. Bugs immediately surface. It takes Microsoft a few weeks to squash most of them. The safest way of handling the monthly updates is to wait until just before the next batch comes out, make an image backup and then let Windows do its stuff. This month the patches will show up on June 8. You should finish updating before then.


Have you had any of these bugs effect you? I get that you might be worried about them. And for critical system - absolutely - precaution is paramount. But for my day to day Windows 10 machines, I have never had a problem! It might be blissful ignorance, but I just let all of my computers update - and bingo - never had a problem. It almost seems that the cure is more trouble than then problem.
 
PeteCotton

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Posted: 03:41pm 05 Jun 2021
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  Paul_L said  ... It's just not true that Windows keeps gobbling up increasing amounts of disk space.


I should qualify my earlier statement - sorry, I wasn't clear. My issue with the updates is that the Latte Panda (which is a great wee machine by the way) only has 32GB of onboard storage. This is fine for running Windows 10, but every time it downloads a significant update - those download files cause it to run out of space on the C: drive. I should really just bite the bullet and buy a really cheap SSD M.2 for it - and move the OS over on to that.

The machine is currently just used as a media device in our bedroom - so it's not exactly critical.
 
robert.rozee
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Posted: 03:52pm 05 Jun 2021
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  PeteCotton said  
  Paul_L said  ... It's just not true that Windows keeps gobbling up increasing amounts of disk space.


I should qualify my earlier statement - sorry, I wasn't clear. My issue with the updates is that the Latte Panda (which is a great wee machine by the way) only has 32GB of onboard storage. This is fine for running Windows 10, but every time it downloads a significant update - those download files cause it to run out of space on the C: drive. I should really just bite the bullet and buy a really cheap SSD M.2 for it - and move the OS over on to that.

The machine is currently just used as a media device in our bedroom - so it's not exactly critical.


tried that, didn't work. a rather expensive lenovo with 32Gb of flash. we put a 128Gb M2 drive into it (there was an internl slot for this), was able to move win10 over and it worked just fine... until the next update. windows 10 insisted on downloading the update to the 32Gb of onboard flash, and nothing we did could change window's mind. the machine just sat there in a loop downloading gigabytes of updates and failing every day.

incidentally, half the school kids in nz bought hp stream 11" notebooks with 32Gb of flash. they all stopped working     not an issue for the kids from more well-off families, but a killer for poor families who can not afford to replace the machines. i buy the machines cheap on trademe and convert them to linux.


cheers,
rob   :-)
 
PeteCotton

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Posted: 03:59pm 05 Jun 2021
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  robert.rozee said  

tried that, didn't work. a rather expensive lenovo with 32Gb of flash. we put a 128Gb M2 drive into it (there was an internl slot for this), was able to move win10 over and it worked just fine... until the next update. windows 10 insisted on downloading the update to the 32Gb of onboard flash, and nothing we did could change window's mind. the machine just sat there in a loop downloading gigabytes of updates and failing every day.


Good to know. Thanks for the information. As you suggest - it might just become another Linux machine..... or maybe it becomes a future project to build an Amiga clone (linux based)....
 
Paul_L
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Posted: 06:29pm 05 Jun 2021
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@PeteCotton ... The updates that cause havoc usually run into problems because of the seemingly infinite combinations and permutations of hardware. Two months ago Microsoft had to deal with machines which metamorphosised into boat anchors due to a change in Brother printer drivers. The update rollback process worked but then the problem machines had to be convinced not to attempt any updates until the driver incompatibility was fixed. It took about three weeks to straighten it out.

It is possible to buy cheap machines that run Windows very well. I just bought a refurbished Lenovo M90 I5 small desktop with a 500 GB drive and 16 GB of DDR3 RAM for $155 from Staples. The only problem was that it came with a chicklet keyboard that I figure should sell for about $5.00. It's on a table in my bedroom with about 300 full length movie files on its disk and a used $65 19" monitor. I have the Lenovo connected to my 65" LED TV with an HDMI cable. The audio goes from the TV to a 20 year old Bose audio system which I use to test the stability of the house foundation. This Lenovo doesn't have a WiFi adapter so I'm not worried about updating Windows or about acquiring malware.

We watched the musical 1776 featuring William Daniels, Howard Da Silva and Blythe Danner last night. It was great. Tonight we will vote again. I will vote for Can Can. I always liked Cole Porter, Frank Sinatra, Juliet Prowse, and Maurice Chevalier.

I personally think that both Windows and LINUX are junk ... I prefer the IBM MVS/VM/370, the MVS/VM/390, the DEC OpenVMS or the DEC Alpha on the VAX. Pan Am's 3090-200 running VM/390 had a continuous uptime of 2265 days with total unavailable time of 23 seconds when we shut it down on 12/5/1991.

Paul in NY
 
PeteCotton

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Posted: 08:15pm 05 Jun 2021
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  Paul_L said  @PeteCotton ... The updates that cause havoc usually run into problems because of the seemingly infinite combinations and permutations of hardware. Two months ago Microsoft had to deal with machines which metamorphosised into boat anchors due to a change in Brother printer drivers. The update rollback process worked but then the problem machines had to be convinced not to attempt any updates until the driver incompatibility was fixed. It took about three weeks to straighten it out.


Like I say - I've never had any issues at all with it. Maybe I am just really lucky.

I do however still keep all of my work backed up (to my server and to the cloud) and have my data drives separate from my system drives (and RAIDed). But that's just belt and braces sort of stuff.

I also make a point of completely re-installing Windows on my main dev machine every year when I have some downtime - just to make sure that I can re-create my entire development environment in a hurry if I have to. i.e. I don't want to have a hard drive failure (despite the fact the system drives are also RAIDed) in the middle of a time critical project and discover that I can't find the license key for some vital software.

So my fear that an update might brick my system is easily mitigated by the fact that I can just re-install Windows if I have to.

But all of the other (non-critical) Windows computers in the house are just left as is - and tick along nicely.

  Paul_L said  I personally think that both Windows and LINUX are junk ... I prefer the IBM MVS/VM/370, the MVS/VM/390, the DEC OpenVMS or the DEC Alpha on the VAX. Pan Am's 3090-200 running VM/390 had a continuous uptime of 2265 days with total unavailable time of 23 seconds when we shut it down on 12/5/1991.


I think most of use older guys prefer the old stuff   Windows is a necessary evil for me, and to be honest, it can do some incredible things - but my heart will forever belong to the Amiga... It's one of the reasons I love the CMM2 so much. None of this messing around with certificates and toolchains - just power up and start programming.

I literally wasted 4 hours the other day because my Mac had a different version of development environment installed than my PC. Frustrating.  
Edited 2021-06-06 06:16 by PeteCotton
 
phil99

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Posted: 01:38am 06 Jun 2021
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Perhaps the problem of W10 consuming ever more space is due to the temporary downloaded files not being deleted after the updates complete. On my cheap Apollo Lake Celeron mini PC, Windows occupies 15GB after two years of updates. It started at about 10GB. Check the settings to make sure temp. files get deleted.
 
bigmik

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Posted: 04:55am 06 Jun 2021
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GDay Paul, All,

I usually do the updates, Actually they do themselves at the most at the most inconvenient moments.

This time I could not shut my windows down.. It would do all of the motions and would shut down (and POWER OFF) and then restart IMMEDIATELY.

I chased the usual suspects like kb or mouse set to power the PC up in device manager ... NOPE all set to not be allowed to wake PC.

If i pulled the cable from the Main USB hub, just as the shut down was is in its death throws it would not RESTART...Hmm its not keyboard or mouse... What can it be..? In the end I unplugged everything but the USB hubs and it still powered back up.

Eventually I fixed this in the BIOS by Unchecking the`allow USB to power the PC'

I am now happy but what would cause this? The BIOS setting was fine before..

Anyway something to watch out for.

Regards,

Mick
Mick's uMite Stuff can be found >>> HERE (Kindly hosted by Dontronics) <<<
 
Paul_L
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Posted: 10:33pm 06 Jun 2021
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Hi Mick

It sounds like you have a virus on a USB disk. When you pulled the cable from the main USB hub what gadgets were plugged into the hub???

You could plug in one USB disk at a time and scan each one for malicious stuff. Use the scanners recommended here https://helpdeskgeek.com/free-tools-review/looking-for-a-usb-virus-scanner-here-are-5-to-try/.

Check for hidden partitions on the USB drive.

START > CONTROL PANEL > ADMINISTRATIVE TOOLS > COMPUTER MANAGEMENT > STORAGE > DISK MANAGEMENT

Examine each disk listing for partitions that shouldn't be there. USB drives will normally have just one partition unless the drive manufacturer hid some disk related software (scanning or formatting) in a hidden partition. If you find one that shouldn't be there read this:
https://www.eassos.com/blog/how-to-remove-partition-from-usb-drive-in-windows/

Formatting a USB drive does not erase everything. Viruses can hide in the MDR of a USB drive. MiniTool partition wizard is supposed to be able to recreate the MBR. If you just delete the MBR without re-creating it Windows will not be able to see the disk to establish any partition or format it.

Paul in NY
 
bigmik

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Posted: 02:18am 08 Jun 2021
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Hi Paul,

No Virus (apart from MS$).

What I really REALLY hate about updates is that every update that W10 does it changes power settings on my Network adapter to disable allow magic packet to wake machine.

I like to be able to remotely power my PCs and then remote control them.
I always have to reset that setting on my network adapter (WHY does MS$ think they need to override my setting choices)

I have narrowed it down to two hubs in series.. Nothing else plugged in just two hubs. I have checked and rechecked the settings for all USB devices and if the second hub is plugged in the PC shuts down (lights turn off the kb) and then 2 or 3 seconds later it spins up again and the kb lights come back and it boots. If I unplug the second HUB (nothing plugged into it) it wont re-boot.

Thankfully my BIOS has a nice setting which enables me to stop USB from powering up the PC which works for me. SO I am happy (until the next update).

Regards,

Mick (still in lockdown)
Mick's uMite Stuff can be found >>> HERE (Kindly hosted by Dontronics) <<<
 
hitsware2

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Posted: 03:33am 08 Jun 2021
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Yes. Any Windows PC connected to the internet
is routinely visited by Bill Gates . He sets
things as he sees best . Though his aims are
( I think ( Mostly benevalent ) ) ...
It is still a PITA at times .
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