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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : pointless picomite/ILI9341 demo: autumn in canada

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scruss
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Joined: 20/09/2021
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Posted: 01:41pm 18 Nov 2021
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Since it is autumn in Canada and pretty much everywhere that's not snowy or flooded is covered with fallen leaves, I ported my OpenProcessing sketch to PicoMite BASIC:



Source is here: Autumn in Canada: PicoMite version. And yes, those leaf polygon vertices are nicked from the official definition of the flag of Canada ...

It would be nice if there were an archive/demo showcase of MMBasic code somewhere.
Edited 2021-11-18 23:42 by scruss
 
lizby
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Posted: 03:09pm 18 Nov 2021
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  scruss said  It would be nice if there were an archive/demo showcase of MMBasic code somewhere.


cmm2 fun (for the CMM2)

Some PicoMite stuff is here on fruitoftheshed.

(Municipal annual autumn yard waste pickup removed 47 bags of leaves from my front yard yesterday.)

~
Edited 2021-11-19 01:16 by lizby
 
scruss
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Posted: 11:03pm 20 Nov 2021
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are both of these sites not indexed by Google? This stuff is unfindable from where I am
 
lizby
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Posted: 11:29pm 20 Nov 2021
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Fruitoftheshed is undergoing maintenance this weekend, I suspect to move it from http to https. About 6 months ago I could access it from all browsers I tried. Tightening browser security to block non-https has made it so that chrome, edge, firefox, iridium, brave don't work for me--only opera does. I even specifically authorized the site, and still couldn't get to it except with opera. Some people don't seem to have that problem (yet?).

Don't know about cmm2.fun--don't know any reason why it shouldn't be crawled by google.

Searching with duckduckgo for "green hills of earth cmm2" brings up cmm2.fun first--so if you know what you're looking for, you can find it (not that that is usually the case when you do a search).

Searching "fruitoftheshed picomite" finds a link, but clicking it won't take me there (in chrome): "This site can't be reached"

~
Edited 2021-11-21 09:33 by lizby
 
Mixtel90

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Posted: 08:09am 21 Nov 2021
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Just at the moment I can't directly search for "fruitoftheshed". I'm (helpfully!) asked by Startpage  if I'm looking for "fruit of the shed" and not given the option to say no. (Of course, that may just be that Pale Moon isn't flavour of the month in browsers).

http://www.fruitoftheshed.com/Circuit%20Ideas.MainPage.ashx is working as is http://www.fruitoftheshed.com/

CMM2fun works fine from Startpage, for both search and access.
Edited 2021-11-21 18:10 by Mixtel90
-- Mick

Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini
 
jirsoft

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Joined: 18/09/2020
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Posted: 12:21pm 21 Nov 2021
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Jiri
Napoleon Commander and SimplEd  for CMM2 (GitHub),  CMM2.fun
 
scruss
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Posted: 04:03am 22 Nov 2021
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but how would I know to look for "cmm2"? That's nothing to do with a Raspberry Pi Pico.
Same goes for "fruitoftheshed" - zero relevant keywords.

where are the github repos of source?
where's the awesome list? (such as Awesome MicroPython)
It's almost as if MMBasic doesn't want to be found!
 
Mixtel90

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Posted: 07:27am 22 Nov 2021
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We've been waiting for you to start it. :)

The manual has links to Geoff's site about the PicoMite and to the source on Github.
It also links to this forum. Geoff's site is also easily found on Google when searching for "picomite".
-- Mick

Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini
 
CaptainBoing

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Posted: 08:49am 22 Nov 2021
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  scruss said  
where are the github repos of source?
where's the awesome list? (such as Awesome MicroPython)
It's almost as if MMBasic doesn't want to be found!


you are comparing apples to oranges. The whole micromite/MMBasic "scene" is minuscule compared to the likes of Raspberry* and Arduino. Whenever there is talk of micro-controllers, it is also synonymous with one or the other of the above. A bit like "Hoover"

I don't like elitism, but there you have it. With Arduinos, there are tons of projects but often little skill because all that happens is the builder combines existing libraries - other people's work. Often they haven't really done that much themselves except a bit of "glue code" and it shows when you take them off the well-worn path (a point I made with my eldest son years ago when he proudly showed off his "spirit level" jobby - he was extremely limited by the modules he elected to use and there was little scope for change). MMBasic requires that people actually *do* stuff - it is closer to the "men in sheds" ethos of really building a project - that is supremely attractive to me. Sure we borrow bits of code off each other and publish our own work for the betterment of others but it is all open, tweakable, modifiable etc. you are not stuck with someone's module as a monolithic lump and you like it or leave it.

As such, MMBasic (and the excellent Great Cow BASIC compiler - although that is probably limited by the type of devices it supports, including ATMel chips[Arduino] ironically) will only ever be an "also-ran". It also struggles with the language snobbery thing of being BASIC; a great scarlet "B" of shame. Being interpreted might be seen as a problem but with good code it is almost never an issue. I have commercial projects all over and they just do what they are supposed to do with the flexibility of super-simple field support that an Arduino simply can't approach, and a Pi is a nuisance with it's OS overhead (and poor IO). Also of consideration is; being BASIC it opens the door to large amounts of lapsed shedders... those who used to do this stuff in anger in the 70s and 80s but moved away with the pressures of the career. Now they can come bang up to date with amazing tech and it's abilities while shuffling around in the comfy slippers of familiarity - yours truly included, although a part of me still hankers for a *really* fast Z80... multi GHz and extended memory map (floats off to happy-place)- sap that I am.

so... does MMBasic not want to be found? Quite the opposite, it is just a small crouton in a vast soup of well-marketed/ripped-off Arduino stuff. How do you overturn firmly entrenched things?
Edited 2021-11-22 19:03 by CaptainBoing
 
Mixtel90

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Posted: 09:21am 22 Nov 2021
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Really fast Z80? Sounds fun. :)  The Nascom 4 project can do 50MHz (but it clocks down "real" peripheral chips like the Z80 PIO and CTC so that they will work). It's on a FPGA so rather tweakable. :)  It's a sort of expanded Nascom 2 that can have a clean memory map for CP/M with additional paged RAM.

That's a good point - not requiring library dependence makes MMBasic completely different to anything running C or Python. It uses the original "write your application" style that was almost universal for home computers.

It's been argued that BASIC hasn't been a Beginners language for many years, no matter what the acronym stood for. Structuring changed the concept. Line numbers, EDIT, LET, GOTO, GOSUB and FOR-NEXT were the beginners staple commands.

  Quote  Originally. a simple mid-level language used to test the student's ability to increment line numbers. - The Devil's DP Dictionary

-- Mick

Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini
 
robert.rozee
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Posted: 09:22am 22 Nov 2021
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  CaptainBoing said  How do you overturn firmly entrenched things?


that is the $65,536 question!

all of us have tried in various ways, including a 'reference design' ripe for the cloners that matched the arduino (nano) and was - for a while - available at a basement price (us$12) fully assembled. but, alas, none of the attempts have ever achieved the necessary 'critical mass', or traction if you like, to make any significant and lasting impact.

it is noteworthy that the RPi pico version has hardly created a ripple, even though the source code is up on github. so far, only TWO people have cloned it!


perhaps what we need is a 'how to' book, "101 projects using mmbasic"? a rewrite of an existing basic programming book customized to the micromite?


one thing that does come to mind is an 'interactive configurator' built into the firmware. ie, type config at the prompt, and be presented with an ascii-representation of the pico with the ability to configure SD card, colour LCD, touch panel, etc using just the arrow keys and/or mouse.

just an idea...


cheers,
rob   :-)
 
IanT
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Joined: 29/11/2016
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Posted: 09:31am 22 Nov 2021
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"being BASIC it opens the door to large amounts of lapsed shedders... those who used to do this stuff in anger in the 70s and 80s but moved away with the pressures of their career"

For someone I've never met, you seem to know me very well Captain!

IanT
 
CaptainBoing

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Posted: 10:12am 22 Nov 2021
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heh... and many others here I suspect. We have all trodden the same path at some point.

As an erstwhile Electronic Technician (Apprentice)/Analyst Programmer, only now do I realize what an Eden I inhabited in the entire decade of the 80s (well from 80 - 88). Apprenticed to Thorn EMI, then working at a little outfit on the Isle of Wight. I was ear'oles-deep in Z80, 80x86 and 68K assembler, compiled QBasic and electronics manufacture from our own back-plane with modular cards right up to PSU Test equipment for PresTel (remember that?!) and transformer test equipment for Ferranti complete with motorized variac and latterly Weather RADAR hardware and software (still some working "out there"). Truly the best of days. Then I moved more to the programming side, SQL, Oracle and VB then management came along and with every $ chasing step up the ladder, I moved further from my first love of electronics and the processing grunt to tie it all together. I moved from management (the two most boring years of my life at BT before taking voluntary redundancy) and went back to architecture; more-or less the same level but with a very techy hint... As "cloud integration architect" there is still the opportunity to get my hands dirty in rare but delicious moments - you try to get the vendors to do it but if they refuse I roll my sleeves up and get stuck in.

Is it any wonder I have embraced the 'Mite-ecosystem so tightly? It has permitted me a side-business harking back to my post-apprenticeship days (it wouldn't feed me long term but it scratches my creative itch). Projects also to ease tasks in my personal space and "home-grown" test equipment for the shed is a joy. There are 5 of my dusk-to-dawn switches running in my street, plus loads of other trinkets. I also do custom jobs where a device can be purchased but they never seem to get the operational model quite right or sensible and never last long. Everything is easily tweakable to get it just right and when it breaks it is fixable. Lovely.

h
Edited 2021-11-22 20:15 by CaptainBoing
 
JohnS
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Posted: 10:52am 22 Nov 2021
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  scruss said  It would be nice if there were an archive/demo showcase of MMBasic code somewhere.

I did a web search on
MMBasic code

and got many useful matches.

What did you try that didn't?

I also did
MMBasic github

which worked too.

John
Edited 2021-11-22 20:56 by JohnS
 
CaptainBoing

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Posted: 09:56pm 25 Nov 2021
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  CaptainBoing said  ... It also struggles with the language snobbery thing of being BASIC; a great scarlet "B" of shame.


  Hackaday user Severe Tire Damage in the PicoMite comments said  

November 25, 2021 at 7:16 am
Basic. Yuk!



See?

No other reason. What a dick
Edited 2021-11-26 07:59 by CaptainBoing
 
PeteCotton

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Joined: 13/08/2020
Location: Canada
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Posted: 12:23am 26 Nov 2021
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  CaptainBoing said  
  CaptainBoing said  ... It also struggles with the language snobbery thing of being BASIC; a great scarlet "B" of shame.


  Hackaday user Severe Tire Damage in the PicoMite comments said  
November 25, 2021 at 7:16 am
Basic. Yuk!



See?

No other reason. What a dick


Yeah - I don't get his/her line of thought.

If this had been COBOL or some such other language deliberately designed to torment the imprisoned souls in large corporation, then I would have agreed with them. But how can anyone not like BASIC? It serves a fantastic purpose in introducing people to programming, teaches 90% of the fundamentals that you will use in other languages (without obscure linker/compile errors), and in it's modern incarnation is very capable. And for this sort of tinker/maker environment it's the perfect choice for people who want to make their circuits do something without having to install a full OS and spend hours doing "Hello world" tutorials.

Sure, I wouldn't write a banking system in it, but then I wouldn't write a banking system in ladder logic either. Horses for courses.

They don't know what fun they are missing out on!
 
scruss
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Posted: 03:47am 26 Nov 2021
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  JohnS said  What did you try that didn't?


Just tried "mmbasic code" on google.ca.

Top hit: https://circuitgizmos.com/projects/microboard-micromite-projects/mmbasic-code-library/

Click on any of the examples: There has been a critical error on this website
Okay.

Second: https://mmbasic.com/ - it's a description site with links to where you can download the interpreter. Examples? None.

Third hit is Geoff's site.

Pretty much everything below that is spam. Something I wrote on my blog that basically says "MMBasic is available on the Raspberry Pi Pico" (so no real content) appears just below cmm2.fun

I don't want the source code to MMBasic, I want to see and show off what it can do.
 
TassyJim

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Posted: 04:00am 26 Nov 2021
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VK7JH
MMedit   MMBasic Help
 
lizby
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Posted: 04:12am 26 Nov 2021
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  scruss said  I don't want the source code to MMBasic, I want to see and show off what it can do.


This is a broad question. If you meant the CMM2, then jiri's CMM2.fun and @thwill's welcome tape would be what you're looking for.

If not the CMM2, the first question would be, do you want the CMM1 (in its variations), the MX170 MM2, the MX470 MM+, the MMX, the Picromite (no longer supported), the ArmMite H7, L4, or F4 (maybe soon F411), the Picomite, or MMB4L (for Linux, alpha 2 currently released).

Most of the variants have not had champions who made collections of their own and other people's work. And aside from the CMM1 and CMM2, they are basically (as it were) microcontrollers with which you can conveniently twiddle bits and display information on LCDs.
 
Mixtel90

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Posted: 08:01am 26 Nov 2021
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I suppose there isn't a central repository for non-specific MMBasic software because it's firmly split into computer and controller camps. You can't write really impressive demos nowadays using ANSI graphics on a console - only believers see their true beauty. :)

I can see Scruss's point, there isn't really a showcase. There are two problems though: Not many people have written demo programs to date and how would you arrange it anyway? It's a bit like asking for a showcase of demos written in LISP. You can write a demo for the CMM2 but that doesn't showcase MMBasic's control capabilities. You can write demos for the MX170 and people will find it difficult to believe that it's only a single 28-pin chip, but it won't demonstrate the sound and graphics of the CMM2.
-- Mick

Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini
 
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