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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Any interest in MMBasic for Windows with full Graphics?
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| matherp Guru  Joined: 11/12/2012 Location: United KingdomPosts: 8567 |
It is still cold and miserable in the UK so outside pursuits are on hold and I need a new project. I have the germ of an idea for how to program a windows graphics version of MMBasic. The idea is that, like the CMM2, it would use a mouse to control the GUI controls and it would support the full set of MMbasic drawing commands. It wouldn't and couldn't replicate any specific existing version of MMbasic so, for example, you couldn't take Mauro's CMM2 programs and run them unchanged but it could eventually support things like true sprites using the graphics card rather than the processor to render them. This is a big project and takes me outside my "embedded" comfort zone so I only want to start it if there is real interest from a significant user-base. For those interested in the base technology I'm thinking of using google "one load coder pixelgameengine" Thoughts? |
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Turbo46 Guru Joined: 24/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1590 |
YES PLEASE! Any expansion of the MMBasic for Windows would be most welcome. Bill Keep safe. Live long and prosper. |
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thwill Guru Joined: 16/09/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3831 |
Hi Peter, I'm not going to say "Yes!", not because I don't think it is a good idea, but just because I don't want my vote to count towards someone making a decision to comitting to such a potentially huge sink of their time. Typo? presumably you mean "one loNe coder": https://github.com/OneLoneCoder/olcPixelGameEngine. I wonder if you might be better with something "standard" like SDL as it might have better lifetime and ongoing support - it's what is used for graphics support in the portable version of BBC Basic: https://www.bbcbasic.co.uk/bbcsdl/index.html. In theory, and ideally I think there should be a future where there is a single source that compiles to build desktop versions of MMBasic for Windows, Linux, ChromeOS, Android, iOS, and whatever today's version of MacOS is called. I'd volunteer to collaborate on implementing such a future, but I think our styles are too divergent and our amount of free time orders of magnitude too disparate, and if we are honest there is every sign we'd just rub each other up the wrong way  . Instead I'm just going to wish you luck and look forward to whatever you might produce. Now hopefully I'm never going to feel the need to stick my oar in again, but feel free to PM me if you do want my input.Best wishes, Tom Edited 2022-01-20 19:57 by thwill Game*Mite, CMM2 Welcome Tape, Creaky old text adventures |
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jirsoft Guru Joined: 18/09/2020 Location: Czech RepublicPosts: 532 |
Hi Peter, can it be used in MacOS or Linux too? Is it this one? I already thought to do the same in Xojo (multiplatform), with one more window used for simulating inputs and visualization of outputs... Finally I have found not so much gain, so I have canceled this idea. But when it will be multiplatform, maybe I can somehow help you (pure Windows version is not too interesting for me). Jiri Jiri Napoleon Commander and SimplEd for CMM2 (GitHub), CMM2.fun |
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| matherp Guru Joined: 11/12/2012 Location: United KingdomPosts: 8567 |
Massively over the top for what is required. PixelGameEngine is a single header file that does everything needed. It is multiplatform but if I do this it will developed under windows only where I have a proper IDE and I'm not messing around at the command prompt. It would be up to someone else to set up a development environment under any other OS and get it working |
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| Goksteroo Senior Member  Joined: 15/03/2021 Location: AustraliaPosts: 110 |
Yes please.... |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 3496 |
Hi Peter, That would fill in the big gap that the current windows/dos version has: graphics support. I would very much appreciate the addition of the basic graphics functions (like line draw, text, box and circles). And maybe it is even possible to bring the DOS version to 5.07 (including MATH commands). The current latest (5.05.03) does not have them. So a very big +1 from me... Volhout Edited 2022-01-20 20:16 by Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3649 |
I expect yes & yes. John |
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| fred777 Regular Member  Joined: 01/07/2021 Location: United KingdomPosts: 57 |
I'd say don't spend too much time on that. Windows (and Liunx and Mac) already has FreeBasic, PureBasic and Xojo (and who knows what else) |
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| flasherror Senior Member Joined: 07/01/2019 Location: United StatesPosts: 159 |
I agree with this - I don't see much point in a Windows version of graphical MMBasic that is not compatible with CMM2. (If it was compatible it would make a great CMM2 simulator/emulator) There is more than enough choice in programming traditional PCs and I don't see MMBasic filling anything other than a niche, and ultimately not being widely adopted or have much of a future. This may not be the best use of resources (although it's ultimately up to you). Just looking at things realistically here. Might be better to extend existing "DOS" MMBasic to have SQLite database to better handle database use other than simple "flat file" data files. (It would be nice if the Pico/Armmite ports implemented SQLite). Or ESP32-C3 (RISC-V) port? Edited 2022-01-20 22:07 by flasherror |
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| bigfix Senior Member Joined: 20/02/2014 Location: AustriaPosts: 124 |
It would make sense if it supports some minimum I/O to the outside world Serial & I2C would be nice, syntax similar to current MMbasic for portability Eventually it could support an USB to I2C adapter, allowing to connect the GP I2C I/O box, which was just designed in another thread |
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CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1985 |
bring the black pill up to a basic level of stability and usability then draw a line under it? |
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| Turbo46 Guru Joined: 24/12/2017 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1590 |
 Keep safe. Live long and prosper. |
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Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 5705 |
It would certainly be a challenge for you. Peter. :) If that's the sort of thing you enjoy then I'd say go for it, by all means, but IMHO the desktop computing world doesn't *need* any more languages, not even versions of BASIC. You would be doing this for your own enjoyment - and if you don't think of it like that then it might be better to consider something else to fill in your spare time until Spring. :) The big problem with desktop versions is that they don't have user IO since the parallel ports disappeared, and MMBasic is very IO orientated. To get IO you have to add USB support together with suitable USB connected IO. I, personally, wouldn't be happy, even if I could do a top rate port of MMBasic to windows with graphics, sound and whatever, unless I could also get that IO. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| nutson Newbie  Joined: 01/07/2019 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 14 |
"It would make sense if it supports some minimum I/O to the outside world Serial & I2C would be nice, syntax similar to current MMbasic for portability Eventually it could support an USB to I2C adapter, allowing to connect the GP I2C I/O box, which was just designed in another thread" I share the opinion of forum member bigfix. The 'mite family is for me a vehicle to control things WHILE having options for making a userinterface. |
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| lizby Guru Joined: 17/05/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 3008 |
Yes to MMBasic for windows with graphics, and especially yes if the following is included. PicoMite, Armmite F4, SensorKits, MMBasic Hardware, Games, etc. on fruitoftheshed |
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| robert.rozee Guru Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 2285 |
i too believe effort would be well spent bring the black pill up to the same level as the MX170. ditch VGA video and PS2 keyboard (as the Pico seems to do these nicely) and get the USB console working. i also believe that there is more to do on the Pico. imagine getting the USB working on the other core (shared with VGA for the VGA version) and 'compartmenting' the MMbasic firmware on its own so that if it crashes then USB stays running. such a project: VGA + USB running on core1, with an effectively sandboxed user application able to be run on core0 would be a nice addition to the Pico ecosystem (outside of the MMbasic world) that would garner wide interest and praise. cheers, rob :-) |
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| robert.rozee Guru Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 2285 |
isn't this pretty close to just a Pico tethered to a PC, with the PC running a graphical terminal emulator? the Pico is likely the cheapest multi-function USB expansion device out there, be it used just an I/O expander or as a platform running MMbasic. cheers, rob :-) Edited 2022-01-21 00:05 by robert.rozee |
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| matherp Guru Joined: 11/12/2012 Location: United KingdomPosts: 8567 |
I am not on any platform digging around in the guts of USB - absolutely no interest. Wouldn't work anyway, even a few extra statements on core 1 b...rs the VGA |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 5705 |
Anyone fancy turning a Black Pill into an I2C slave? It would be a better candidate than the Pico simply because it has more ADC ports. This device could be linked to a PC via a USB-I2C converter or to 'mites. Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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