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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : New LoRa Modules are not compatible.

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OA47

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Joined: 11/04/2012
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Posted: 01:43am 21 Mar 2023
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I have been using the Ebyte E32 433Mhz LoRa module for a number of years to enable the Micromites to communicate with each other. Like these ones:




As I wanted to extend the current network of units, I ordered another quantity of units like these:




I then spent a large amount of time chasing transmission faults and banging my head against the 'shed ' wall. In the end I contacted the manufacturer and here is parts of their reply:
  Quote  Now the models are V8 version . If your old orders are bought long time ago. They can not communicate .


  Quote  Sorry We don't sell the old versions


I have put up this post in the hope another shedder does not get caught with this scenario.

Best Regards
0A47
Edited 2023-03-21 11:44 by OA47
 
Grogster

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Posted: 03:06am 21 Mar 2023
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Well that sucks.  
I wonder why they could not make the new ones backwards compatible?
Most modules are with any new firmware....
Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
 
OA47

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Posted: 04:16am 21 Mar 2023
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I went back and re-read the online ad for these units and it does say that they are Version 8 but does not indicate that they are incompatible to the Versions 1 thru 6. It is bad enough trying to avoid the clones these days for this type of situation but another to find out after the purchase from the manufacturer.

0A47
 
Grogster

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Posted: 05:49am 21 Mar 2023
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As a MINIMUM, they should be pointing that out in bold on their website.
Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
 
morgs67
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Posted: 06:04am 21 Mar 2023
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Found this on passion-radio.com website

  Quote  Version 8.1, it works with all older versions only when the data rate is higher than 9.6kbps.


i would presume this is the communication data rate.

Tony
 
OA47

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Posted: 06:15am 21 Mar 2023
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  Quote  Version 8.1, it works with all older versions only when the data rate is higher than 9.6kbps.


Unfortunately my networks are set up for 9600 serial and 2400 air rate.

0A47
 
CaptainBoing

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Posted: 08:59am 21 Mar 2023
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could you make a bridge with one each of the two flavours and repeat, each way, any traffic that comes in?

Fairly straightforward task if you have one of each module spare... '170 in the middle and literally just take what is received on one COM port and chuck it out the other and vice versa. Tiddly software and simple hook-up. An afternoons' canter in the shed.

PitA but will get you working fairly quickly if you can't get any of the older units. Bit of a lag but it will give you compatibility(?)

just a thought.
Edited 2023-03-21 19:04 by CaptainBoing
 
OA47

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Posted: 01:33am 22 Mar 2023
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  Quote  could you make a bridge with one each of the two flavours and repeat, each way, any traffic that comes in?


With a V6 and V8 set to the same channel number (20), air rate (2400 bps) and uart speed (9600 bps) there is no serial output either way and the Rf activity output does not change state.  

0A47
 
phil99

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Posted: 02:07am 22 Mar 2023
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What I thought CaptainBoing was saying:-

Network--V6 <----> V6--MicroMite--V8 <------> V8--Device.
Device configured to work at whatever speed the V8 works at. MicroMite converting the speed.

V6 only talking to V6, V8 only talking to V8
 
Grogster

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Posted: 02:15am 22 Mar 2023
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Yes, he's talking about a "Store and forward" repeater arrangement.

Anything sent by a V6 module, is received by a V6 module connected to(for example) COM1 on a MM or PM.
The code in the MM or PM monitors COM1, and when anything is received, it would normally buffer it, wait a couple of seconds(to ensure transmissions have stopped), then squirt it out to a V8 module connected to COM2.

And vise-versa.
Rinse and repeat.

That way, anything sent by a V6 module will be retransmitted to the V8 network, and anything received by the V8 network, will be retransmitted to the V6 network.
Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops!
 
OA47

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Posted: 02:18am 22 Mar 2023
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  Quote  Network--V6 <----> V6--MicroMite--V8 <------> V8--Device


The current network configuration is Point to MultiPoint.
PC<==> Armmite <==> LoRa <==> LoRa <==> Micromite
                                              <==> LoRa <==> Micromite
                                              <==> LoRa <==> Micromite
                                                ~         ~       ~
                                              <==> LoRa <==> Micromite

0A47
Edited 2023-03-22 12:20 by OA47
 
phil99

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Posted: 02:31am 22 Mar 2023
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If there is no other source of V6 units either bridging the V6 network to a V8 network may be needed.

An alternative would be to have the Armmite use a second COM port to run a parallel V8 LoRa network.

PC<==> Armmite <==> V6 LoRa
              ||
               <==> V8 LoRa
 
OA47

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Posted: 02:42am 22 Mar 2023
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  Quote  An alternative would be to have the Armmite use a second COM port to run a parallel V8 LoRa network.


In all that wont be too difficult as at the moment a transmission from the hub is in 3 parts (Total of 4 characters).
The "?" to represent a request
    "00-99" The remote unit number
    "0-9"   The command to the unit number
So the transmission could be directed to the appropriate COM port by the remote unit number. The main hassle will be the need for another antenna installation or antenna switch.

0A47
 
CaptainBoing

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Posted: 10:04am 22 Mar 2023
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  OA47 said  
With a V6 and V8 set to the same channel number (20), air rate (2400 bps) and uart speed (9600 bps) there is no serial output either way and the Rf activity output does not change state.  

0A47


would it be feasible for you to run the V8s on a different channel? some good separation between the V6 & V8 and try that test again. In my head I can see that they might have been treading on each-others transmissions but with separate channels they should live happily enough.

In the bridge software, You might consider a small FIFO queue for each for packets, so a V6 out and a V8 out (with the corresponding input populating its counterpart queue - this is not as heavy as it sounds). That way you get more control over transmissions as a further way to avoid them treading on each other.

Far from tidy but that is bridging - an alternative is to replace all the V6 with new modules.

I must say it is cr*ppy behaviour from the company to just dump all their previous kit with no forward path and no backward support in the new modules... sound like a plan to drum up business... Reminds me of Commodore and Apple and others that brought out new kit and nothing is compatible so you have to buy all the bits and bobs all over again.
Edited 2023-03-22 20:05 by CaptainBoing
 
robert.rozee
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Posted: 12:20pm 22 Mar 2023
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i don't suppose the new firmware will run on the older modules, or the old firmware will run on the new modules? is there any means to change the firmware on a module?

how many modules do you have in the field? can you change the operating mode to one that is compatible with both the v6 and v8? i assume they are being configured by a micromite of some variety?

are you running a star (one master talks to each remote unit directly) or more of a mesh network?


cheers,
rob   :-)
Edited 2023-03-22 22:21 by robert.rozee
 
OA47

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Posted: 08:52pm 22 Mar 2023
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Rob
  Quote  how many modules do you have in the field?


I have three systems consisting of master and 16+16+10 Field units

  Quote   is there any means to change the firmware on a module?


The manufacturer software only allows change of settings not firmware

  Quote  are you running a star (one master talks to each remote unit directly) or more of a mesh network?


Star network

At this stage I might have to convert the newer system to V8 units and use the recovered V1-6 units to expand the older systems.

0A47
Edited 2023-03-23 06:53 by OA47
 
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