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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Anyone got experience of HC-15 LoRa module?
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CaptainBoing Guru  Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2133 |
Afternoon forum - you are all well I trust. I need to link a remote monitor to a data aggregator. Problem is it's almost 200m and not really LoS as there is one building directly in the way and the signal path skims across the face of several others. I have never covered this distance @433MHz let alone with some obstacles.  I think it's a big ask for my goto of HC-12 433MHz modules. I have considered using a couple of directional yagi antennae, the Tx would be about 8ft up and the RX about 10ft so fairly level which won't help with my blocking building. I am 75% confident the yagis would crack it but there remains a nagging doubt which is just going to gulp down cash in successive failures if I let it. The yagis are about £30 each. So I start looking at LoRa - I have never touched it but the fantastic claims for range are very attractive - especially the "500m in doors". Now I am not so green as to think those are absolutes, but I am less than half that distance and mostly LoS.  I really am not interested in LoRaWAN right now (even though there is a gateway only a few miles away) as I don't want this to become "an internet thing". It needs to be point-to-pointI only have UART available and a lot of the LoRa modules seem to be SPI... which brings me to the HC-15. I really respect the HC01 manufacturer but their website remains stubbornly chinese with loads of graphics and hence resistant to google translate. Also, their stuff gets faked to death. Has anyone used these HC-15s? The internet and toobs seem devoid of any examples of use... or can suggest any other UART LoRa module? ... or even validate/defeat the prospects re the standard 433MHz link - maybe someone out there would say something like "walk in the park for HC-12s with a full-wave whip" or similar  I hopefully, will be in a position to do some testing with various set-ups shortly and maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised... but my luck doesn't roll that way much, so I am not hopeful.  cheers all h Edited 2025-04-15 22:23 by CaptainBoing |
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| PhenixRising Guru Joined: 07/11/2023 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1121 |
I continue to be impressed with the ESP32's wireless capabilities |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3981 |
Would UK allowed power levels make this possible or unlikely or ...? John |
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Supertech Newbie  Joined: 13/11/2016 Location: AustraliaPosts: 31 |
Some while ago I designed a telemetry broadcast, broadcast Panasonic digital mixer RF master Tx box, powered by 14pin Picaxe direct 8 channel to Rx on each Camera that was converted back by Picaxe 08M addressed to each digital pin it belonged to. So Camera 1, input 1 of Pixace 14M, preprogrammed Djori as Tx address of a camera. Then Camera had Picaxe demo PCB, header socket Djori over top of 08M, decoding serial Address to then put bright Red Led = Camera not live, to Green, Camera live. Panasonic Telly (Camera live port) only ever made optional wired version. Mine, RF realtime, very successful espically designed for "sign language" broadcasting, even in large venues. The Djori system is ultra good, upto 2km, and has host of antenna options, very easy setup (I bought USB mini programmer) all very flexable well priced. Licenced on telmetry RF band capable of suiting diffrent country regulation uses. Now coz I in Australia, I give there link agent I buy from, but Djori have excellent product support. Also this transceiver was chosen for common cost with best simple features. Very programble. See data link. https://www.wiltronics.com.au/product/7621/dorji-drf7020d13-a-433mhz-transceiver-13dbm-sma-conn/ Hope this helps. My project was so good, it worked from building to building in NSW Olympic centre flawlessly.  Regards. Supertech. Edited 2025-04-15 23:19 by Supertech |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4809 |
Hi Captain, IF you can get LoS most systems will work with unidirectional antenna's. Given that this is a living area I expect WIFI to be a no-go, since there will be so much disturbance from installed systems in each house. But anything not using 2.4Ghz with a LoS should be able to master 200 meter. About LoRa: what is the baudrate you need. LoRa achieves it's long range performance by throtteling down the data rate. I have not yet any experience with LoRa, but in this application I would definitely give it a try. Depending the datarate. Can you put up masts to achieve LoS ? Volhout P.S. you can even build a 1 transistor 100Mhz oscillator, and use a 70's 6 transistor radio to tune to it, and get 2400baud modem speeds. Just to play "old school". Edited 2025-04-15 23:28 by Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2133 |
@JohnS yes it is a stretch for 100mW. I don't have control over the power, other than raising the voltage on the transmitter on one solution which seems a bit, "blunt" and I suspect could take me foul of the licence. So it's all about luck and antennae in the cheap seats, and if that fails then we up the game to more sophisticated modules, failure there means I could invest in a brace of small yagis ($$$) or look at LoRa which is totally new to me - It looks painless enough but I am scared of counterfiet parts soiling the tests and me being unable to tell either way.  @Supertech cheers for that link - I will investigate. I am bound by the licence-free ranges, want this as cheap as possible and not interetsed in licensing so we have to play nice. I am getting the message that it's all about the chip involved and a solution like that is much better than just "throwing power" at the problem. @Volhout LoRa uses a spread spectrum tech and achieves astonishing ranges on tiny power. The "sacrifice" is bit-rate, but I need to transmit about 100chars each hour of daylight, so if I can get the link working, anything is acceptable but I think I'll get 2400 which would be excellent. Above this would be a dream.. I have used scores of HC-12s @433MHz in projects but they were all within about 20 or 30 metres of their "master" so distance like this is new to me. What I know about antenna design you could write on a stamp, although I have had very good results just using a single-wave whip made out of single core telephone wire to get flawless communication at 9600baud over about 30m - good enough to upload several kilobytes of program code without issue. I am waiting for some boards to get here from JLC when I will be able to start tests. cheers h Edited 2025-04-15 23:32 by CaptainBoing |
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| PhenixRising Guru Joined: 07/11/2023 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1121 |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4809 |
Hi Captain, If you can put up masts and achieve LoS, these antenna's will provide you a good link with HC12 modules. You may need an adapter cable to connect to the HC12 module. With both sides 10dB+ gain, your (as you mentioned before 30meters) distance would be 300 meters or mode. antenna This is just an example, you can find similar antenna's at aliexpress for 30 or less. Alibaba...  Volhout Edited 2025-04-15 23:49 by Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| Volhout Guru Joined: 05/03/2018 Location: NetherlandsPosts: 4809 |
No ! It is all about the antenna. With 100mW (100MHz) I made contact with amateur radio (pirate) fellows over 150km away. Ok, that is best case, but 150km and 150m is quite a difference. Volhout PicomiteVGA PETSCII ROBOTS |
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| CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2133 |
This is deinitely suburban. Residential to the south, warehousing/light industrial west, open countryside (for now) north and east with a highway in a cutting... so my plan is: 1. test with cheap crappy 433MHz modlues... don't judge, I have some on hand and with a full-wave whip might just be OK. The Tx are surprisingly good simple OOK devices - a bit messy but... it is usually the Rx that let's the side down. This is mainly me being cheeky and seeing if I can get it to work. Really tempted to skip this stage but it's an easy test and I'd like know if possible - I have read about people getting these to 300m LoS with a balanced dipole both ends, so who knows, sub 200m, almost LoS... if you squint at it and accept lofts are mainly empty space with some wooden bits... I actually think the line-up on the signal path is remarkable apart from that first building. 2. same test but with HC-12s... my first "serious" attempt to do it without LoRa. Again I have HC-12s on hand and I think the chips involved will make the absolute best of what can be had (from experience). If the Lora thing wasn't available I would focus on the antenna here but I think that has probably become un-necessary (saving me 60 quid) 3. I have a couple of HC-15 LoRa modules coming. If they do what they say, I think they will be the end of my tests if 2 fails. Actually, if they arrive before I am ready to do the tests, I will probably skip 1 & 2. I expect good things but I am worried about the lack of chat out there about these HC-15s specifically and the prospect of picking up a couple of duds. 4... 5... will very much depend on the outcomes of 1-3 but I think it will go down the LoRa route regardless. I will have to see. If I get to this stage and it still isn't working, I have plenty of info to proceed with.  @Volhout cheers for that link harm. the Tx antenna will be on a small mast but I am by-lawed to about 2.4m. Rx antenna will be at eaves level on a normal two-story building (about 3m+) see? I told you I knew nothing about antenna design/capability... just that these little pigtail things are ok for short distances. TBH, I am not expecting to go down the yagi route now... if the LoRa modules check-out that is going to be it. Only if they turn out fakes will I start to consider HC-12s on a directional antenna - I also have aesthetics to consider  cheers all h Edited 2025-04-16 01:17 by CaptainBoing |
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Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7433 |
Watch the UK regs carefully. They generally refer to erp not input power to the antenna so there's not much point in using an antenna with gain (apart from reducing noise with a directional one) as you have to reduce the input power to it to compensate! In many cases you aren't allowed to use an antenna with gain at all. For maximum range use the lowest frequency that you are allowed to. The problem then is that your data rate drops like a lead brick. 145.500-145.800 MHz is supposed to be used for "experimental purposes" so you might be able to do something there if you can find modules. All this is providing you are a radio amateur and are doing things by the book, of course. :) . Edited 2025-04-16 02:52 by Mixtel90 Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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| ville56 Senior Member  Joined: 08/06/2022 Location: AustriaPosts: 209 |
Captain, have a look at this type of modules: 868MHz 915MHz Wireless Data Transmission Module E49-400T20D 20dbm 2.5KM Low Power Narrowband TransmissionAntenna interface SMA-K got them on Amazon. Regards, Gerald 73 de OE1HGA, Gerald |
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| CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2133 |
blimey... was not aware of that - thanks for the heads up. Guarantee if I do use a couple of yagis, spot on the hour someone is gonna get a data burst that upsets their electrics and of course the men from the department will zero the problem immediately. It is looking more and more like LoRa is the way to go. It solves the range problem with clever transmission techniques acros a band rather than a single frequency + enough ERP. fingers-crossed then h Edited 2025-04-16 04:44 by CaptainBoing |
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| circuit Senior Member Joined: 10/01/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 265 |
I think these modules may be a high quality and effective solution. I don't think that you will need any extensive antennae over the distance that are proposing. 20km range LOS is specified. I use the gamma telemetry versions between properties with 200m separation using just an 86.3mm wire quarter wave antenna; that is, indoor to indoor. Both properties have 11" brick cavity walls, solid brick internal walls and are surrounded by dense woodland. Never had any issue with over ten years in service. Gamma 62 data modem This is the supplier/manufacturer but you can also get them from Farnell, RS and others. RF Solutions Ltd. And they come with a UK Declaration of Conformity Edited 2025-04-16 04:58 by circuit |
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PeteCotton Guru Joined: 13/08/2020 Location: CanadaPosts: 522 |
My solution is about 70 pounds (give or take), but probably fairly foolproof. Bring a bottle of whisky to this house here. Tell the owner what you want to do and offer the bottle of whisky in exchange for tapping into his WiFi. If he refuses - you still end up with a bottle of whisky - so there's no way you can lose out.  |
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| CaptainBoing Guru Joined: 07/09/2016 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2133 |
 nice try. fraught with future problems, and you missed the bit about 'don't want this to become "an internet thing"' Probably just easier/cheaper to use a flipper and steal his wifi creds: Future problems mitigated, zero cost... slightly dubious method but I like your thinking h Edited 2025-04-16 05:48 by CaptainBoing |
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| PeteCotton Guru Joined: 13/08/2020 Location: CanadaPosts: 522 |
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TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 6206 |
In most countries, If you use any sort of gain antenna, you will be exceeding the permitted EIRP (effective radiated power) so a no-no However, if your system is one direction only, you usually CAN use as much gain as you can afford on the receiver end. Depending on the duty cycle of the transmissions, you may be exceeding the regs also. You don't want to upset too many wireless weather stations, door-bells or garage door openers. Jim VK7JH MMedit |
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| PhenixRising Guru Joined: 07/11/2023 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1121 |
Thanks. I'd forgotten about these guys |
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| Mixtel90 Guru Joined: 05/10/2019 Location: United KingdomPosts: 7433 |
Oh yes - I've used RF Solutions kit too. We had to get a couple of relay contacts from one building to another. The problem was that they were at opposite ends of a special radar test area that couldn't be cut into under any circumstances. The only cable duct was already full. The range was too great for modulated IR. The customer was unwilling to pay for a new trench and multicore out to one side (it would have been difficult anyway). Mick Zilog Inside! nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini Preliminary MMBasic docs & my PCB designs |
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