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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Colour Maximite Add-on
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Nick Guru  Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
While I'm running hot with new ideas (Last one the Programmable Character Set command), I have another idea! (Hit the deck Geoff!) COLOUR GRAPHICS ADD-ON!! Ok, here's the plan. A plug in board attaching to the I/O port with a fast switcher circuit (Sorry, don't know all the right tech terms) controlled by the maximite. The RGB output attaches to this board and another VGA leads to the monitor. The Maximite generates it's monochrome signal as normal but this time, instead of merging the one signal into all the RGB connections to the monitor, the signal can be routed with this switching circuit. Only Red to create, Only Blue to create Blue. Red and Blue to create violet etc. A seperate area of memory can be used to store a colour map that the MM's video software looks at to set the switch at different points of the video generation. This method won't give you pixel addressable colour but you will be able to define at least bands of colour on the screen (A Color and Black). From BASIC, a command could be added to define a table that defines these colour bands. It is limited to 8 colours in it's most simple form. The big advantage is that it doesn't chew up 3 times the memory and still retains the MM's fast display. Oh yeah and cheap, meaning you don't need a more expensive Colour MM version 2. What do you all think? Is it do'able? |
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donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1310 |
Added Nick, Choice 5: COLOUR GRAPHICS ADD-ON!! http://www.themaximitecomputer.com/maximite-input-output-io- applications-boards-poll/ I don't know if it is doable, and how hard it may be as a hardware add-on to do, but I have flown it up the flag pole, and we see if anyone salutes. Cheers Don... https://www.32v8.com/1 |
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| evdb Newbie  Joined: 26/06/2011 Location: BelgiumPosts: 2 |
Hi all, I am Erik and live in Belgium, this is my first message to the forum. i understand that 3-bit (1xred, 1xgreen and 1xblue) color graphics will be added, this results in ugly colors, i propose the same sulution but that the 3 bits point to programmable registers that define the colour used so that the amount of red, green and blue for each of the 8 possible colors are programable, these could be 8 bit registers with for each r g and b, resulting in 256x256x256 possible colors. greetings, erik |
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| Nick Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
I don't know what's available out there and if it would be suitable to do what you are suggesting. I agree, 8 digital colours is pretty low tech but I'm looking at the maximite for what it is.... and isn't. Do we need 24 bit graphics on the MM? In order to keep such a project low cost and keeping a perspective at what the MM is actually going to be used for, I think 8 digital colours would be fine. Maybe add the ability to define an intensity bit (like old RGBI) and have 16 colours but that would be enough for this project I feel. This idea doesn't add much more burden to the video generation software. Remember, adding more colours will eat up more RAM and run the system slower (this is a software driven video chip remember). I assume that the video is using 1 byte (8 bits) for 8 screen pixels. Thats's 25K of RAM just for the monochrome display. Multiply that by 3 and 75K is a lot of RAM to manipulate. Maybe an Amiga HAM mode could be created but this is all adding complexity and cost. The MM's main appeal is low cost and simplicity and my idea of a plug-in device may be the most appealing. Also means software is compatible for both colour and non colour setups. |
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| donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1310 |
I have asked a similar question in another thread, but why do people want high res graphics on an MM? Don't try to super charge this thing and destroy the simplicity of it. It you need something super, either outboard design it, use a PC, or talk from MM to a PC. My two bobs (two bits) worth. Cheers Don... https://www.32v8.com/1 |
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| evdb Newbie Joined: 26/06/2011 Location: BelgiumPosts: 2 |
I totaly agree with you Nick but maybe i was'nt clear to explain that what i propose is not 24bit but 3bit, so there can still be only 8 colors at one time but every color is defined by 3 bytes instead of 8 fixed colors. thus for example the blue does not need to be pure blue but another shade of blue. with these 8 colors one wont be able to display a photo but the system could have 8 nice colors for everyone to select its own the 3 bits would only select what color is diplayed i hope this is a bit clearer, english not being my mothertongue sometimes makes it a bit difficult to make my point. erik |
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| Nick Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
We want high res graphics. We already have high res graphics (480x432). I think what you mean is "high colour" graphics. I agree. Make it expensive and it will lose it's popularity. A low cost add-on is more likely to succeed otherwise you'll be competeing with a $300 netbook. Could be better to design a USB interface board that gives the netbook the I/O that hardware people want. The colour is just adding to the appeal of the MM being a "personal computer" like the days of old. Built-in BASIC, ready to go. The colour would be usefull for graphs and data displays when used in a serious applications. |
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| Nick Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
Ahhh! Yes, now I see. As long as it's cheap and simple to implement, yes, I agree. I get that all the time... more to do with not making sense though. :) |
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VK6MRG Guru Joined: 08/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 347 |
I agree with Nick, 8 colours will be more than enough for the Maximite. I'm looking at current readouts and will be trying to have Green for healthy/normal current/voltage, yellow for caution levels, and Red for alarm over voltage/current levels. Its easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission! ............VK6MRG.............VK3MGR............ |
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| donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1310 |
Thanks Nick, sorry wrong term, I normally claim age as an excuse, but on this forum, I may be a youth. 
and Erik, I feel you don't need to worry about English, Australia is a country with quite a mix, and most Forum users will understand you most of the time. It is some of our home grown Aussies that I worry about. 
Cheers Don... https://www.32v8.com/1 |
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stuarts Senior Member  Joined: 15/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 194 |
I'm a little bit concerned that we only have a total of 128K of RAM and we are currently using 25K by Nicks calculation. That leaves about 100K for programs, data and whatever scratchpad space MMBasic needs. If we use 3 times as much memory for the video, we halve the amount of memory for our programs and data. Stuart Time is nature's way of keeping everything from happening all at once. |
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| donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1310 |
I'll do a me2 here, as I have given my thoughts about destroying the simplicity of a good design. If you want hires col(o)r graphics, you may be in the wrong group. Just check the Group at the top of the page. This is the Maximite group. Sorry, but I really think this is heading in the wrong direction. You can buy a netbook with windows CE for $89 from ebay if that is what you want. If you use Maximite as a control device for the outside world, and spit the info at a PC type device for pretty displays, or other PC features, then I could live with this. You do need a comms channel, and USB would be the obvious, but it needs a little work to sort that one out. Cheers Don... https://www.32v8.com/1 |
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| Nick Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
Sorry Don. I agree with you for most of the way but I think you're ignoring the aspect of the Maximite which makes it great. Clearly, you see the MM as a device for the easy interfacing of external circuits and output to a PC. That's fine, that's what it is and what I think Geoff's original vision for the MM. But it is also a "personal computer" very much in the vein of the early pioneering systems such as the TRS-80, Apple II and Commodores. There are users out there who are having fun relieving those early days of an instant boot system, ready to be programmed immediately in old fashioned BASIC. We can't ignore this group. Colour is not just a "Pretty Display". Colour is used to also convey information to the user more clearly. Colour graphs with multiple plot lines are confusing without each trace being assigned it's own colour. Colour is not restricted to modern systems. Remember, the Apple II, which came out about the same time as the TRS-80, was colour (if you could afford a color monitor). And that's another point, those that have a monitor connected to their MM (most I assume?) have already got a colour VGA monitor attached. It's there and the MM is not using it. Like I said in an earlier e-mail, the upgrade should be a low cost add-on. If it costs too much then I agree, why buy it when a netbook costs $300. But at least with the MM, you can say,"I built my own computer and look what I can do with it!". |
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| donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1310 |
Just a quick response Nick, I was speaking with Mick G. earlier tonight about when we had good old black and white, and were longing for Colo(u)r. We moved into a thing called The Excalibur, which basically was a TRS-80 with Colo(u)r. A steal of the Roms even, as were the VZ200-300s etc. I know because I dis-assembled them all. The point being, Mick reminded me of how much better even simple graphs were in colour, and yes we all have a VGA screen just sitting there. Well it was doing a lot less a few weeks ago. So, I may have an interest in a basic color system, but not at the expense of crippling the MM, and certainly an external cheapie would greatly enhance the ability of MM to be a better Micro-controller system. Mick said, imagine the MM sitting on the back of a tiny VGA screen in a home control application. Cheers Don... https://www.32v8.com/1 |
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| VK6MRG Guru Joined: 08/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 347 |
Thanks Nick for the colour input. I'm sure with some work and thought on this issue we can come up with a solution that will give us colour without "crippling" the Maximite's resources.  Its easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission! ............VK6MRG.............VK3MGR............ |
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| Nick Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
I agree. Just the basic 8 digital RGB colours would be fine and stands a chance of being achievable at low cost. Such a device should not interfere with the MM's basic operation. It would require a firmware upgrade to support the colour but it shouldn't stop or change anything else. My hardware skills only go so far and there may be others much more knowledgable that can see ways of adding more colours for the same budget. I'd be happy with just 8. And what about a maximite mounted within a keyboard! Paint it silver and call it a TRS-80! :) |
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| donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1310 |
You have my vote 
Perhaps we should manufacture the old logo in a sticker. and yes on the other comments. Cheers Don... https://www.32v8.com/1 |
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| VK6MRG Guru Joined: 08/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 347 |
8 colours is more than enough for me. And games will be all the better in colour  Power monitoring will benefit with colour, red flashing alarm icons! Can't wait Its easier to ask forgiveness than to seek permission! ............VK6MRG.............VK3MGR............ |
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| Nick Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
Maybe a logo modelled on the original. We don't want to give Tandy/Radio Shack any credit. :) |
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