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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Joystick for the CMM standardization
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Nick Guru  Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
These guys are in Australia but they charge like a wounded bull for the classic Atari controller. They are new though. Be interesting to work out who the supplier/manufacturer is. Atari Joysticks |
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| MOBI Guru Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 819 |
Would there be any interest in developing an interface of our own? It wouldn't be too difficult to adapt my PS2 Kbd to I2C module to read a couple of joysticks and send the data to the MM via I2C. Any suggestions? David M. |
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bigmik Guru Joined: 20/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2870 |
Hi Dave, Personally I think that is a better option but lets toss the idea around... I suspect the general thoughts may be to not add circuitry when its not needed.. An idea which is what I did in the TRS80 days was to wire the joystick into the Keyboard so that the joystick emulated the arrow keys (or what ever keys are suitable to patch in). This has the added advantage of not using any extra Pin(x)'s for the joystick(s) as a PS2 K/B is open collector (or similar) it should be possible to sacrifice a cheap k/b (use the controller chip) and plug it in via a y-cable to the MM so you have k/b and joystick on the same MM PS2 port.. Mick Mick's uMite Stuff can be found >>> HERE (Kindly hosted by Dontronics) <<< |
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| Nick Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
No! The Keyboard is the whole problem! The keyboard adds in the key delay and repeat functions. We don't want that. Avoid the PS/2 interface. Even when playing with keyboard, you have these problems that deteriorates the response time. Atari joystick interface. The fastest, easiest to implement, easiest to program and most supported standard for the Maximite. No added complexity. The most complicated thing on such an interface are the 4 resistors! The rest are just connectors. Here. A picture is worth a thousand words. 
Just plugs in to the CMM I/O connector. 
This is as far as I got before my CMM poo'ed itself. Didn't get the resistors or soldering done but you can see what I was aiming for. A proper board would be more elegant and smaller. |
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| MOBI Guru Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 819 |
Yes, that is a good option. I did something similar with my old OSI superboard. It had a matrix keyboard, so made up a PCB-alfoil-masking tape touch pad that connected to the arrow keys etc. Worked very well. I might just toy with my thoughts for a bit anyway just to see if it would work as there is both ADC and Anunciator functions to consider. The I2C interface would be powered by the I2C bus. David M. |
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| MOBI Guru Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 819 |
Nick, do you have to debounce the joystick contacts in software before reading or is that not necessary? David M. |
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| paceman Guru Joined: 07/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1326 |
Nick, why not just chassis mount the D9 connector and wire the connections to the I/O pins inside the box - unpluggable of course. I've just ordered one of those $10 sticks Mick found + a couple of buttons and I'll mount them into a little box of some sort - so watch out! Greg |
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djuqa Guru Joined: 23/11/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 447 |
The old Amstrad CPC464/664/6128 9 pin Joystick interface worked as an extension of the KB Matrix. Mongrel of an idea. (I was Tech support for Amstrad) VK4MU MicroController Units |
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| Nick Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
>Nick, why not just chassis mount the D9 connector and wire the connections to the I/O pins inside the box - unpluggable of course. Not sure I know what you mean. This interface simply plugs in at the back of the Maximite. A finished model could have the entire circuit board encased in resin so it's like a plug-in dongle that you simply plug any standard Atari/Amiga/Amstrad joystick or Paddle controller into... no mods. >The old Amstrad CPC464/664/6128 9 pin Joystick interface worked as an extension of the KB Matrix. The Amstrad probably didn't have the keyboard delay/repeat function in hardware as does the PC keyboard... like most micro's of the time. >I've just ordered one of those $10 sticks Mick found + a couple of buttons and I'll mount them into a little box of some sort - so watch out! Interesting to see how much the total cost will be (time and money). Plenty of used Atari Joysticks on Ebay for under $20. >Nick, do you have to debounce the joystick contacts in software before reading or is that not necessary? Not necessary. Keyboard bounce was inherant in early keyboards that used metal contacts which, when the key was pressed, allowed the 2 contact points to come together... hence the term "keyboard bounce" as the contacts often "bounced" together. Contacts are different nowadays and this doesn't happen so much. And it wouldn't make a difference in most games. |
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| MOBI Guru Joined: 02/12/2012 Location: AustraliaPosts: 819 |
I realise a lot of keys are of the conductive polymer type where I wouldn't expect any bounce, but a lot of joysticks of yesteryear have the little metal cup which presses onto the underlying PCB which I would have thought suffered from contact bounce. However, having said all that, the bounce period is only a few miliseconds and the joystick scan routine would probably be equal to or greater than the bounce time. Maske wari. (PNG for it doesn't matter). David M. |
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MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
After a long time searching for a decent joystick in the style of the old famous Atari one i have to conclude that those are not available anymore. It is all joypadsgame controllers now. The ones that can be used are the ones for the NES and for the Sony PS2. They both have unique connectors that will make it difficult to connect them without modification. As i would like to make a CMM clone with two joystick interfaces i am now in the situation that a decision has to be made. Currently i just put a header on the PCB with 5 digital, 2 analog pins and power (3.3v and ground). This would enable a diverse range of solutions, but they all are 'hacks', nothing like a clean connection. The 9 pin D-sub connector is still the easiest connector but then requires cutting of existing connectors and soldering on a new one. I would rather have something that can be plugged in without modifications. I would like to hear suggestions and maybe links to joysticks for sale that have a connector that can be easily sourced. Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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| Nick Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
The NES and Sony (and most modern "non-atari" Joysticks don't work on switch contacts. They are serial and more complicated to interface. Hard to find? Just go on to E-bay and type "Atari Joystick" or "Amiga Joystick" in the search. You'll find heaps at varying price points and styles. Nick |
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| MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
Yes hard to find. I need a source, not a few here and a few there. They are also pretty expensive. I want my CMM clone to be competitively priced, best even when it includes one or two joysticks. At this moment a serial NES or Sony controller with a small pic that interfaces it to a parallel atari style port is very cost efficient. Extra work, but needed only once. I still like the 9 pin atari style connector the best, if i can make an interface for the sony PS2 controller the sourcing of gamepads and the change that people already have something available increases. Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1310 |
Thanks Nick, I wonder, has anyone else found that the Nunchuk interface not as good as a real stick? I spent a lot of time and money getting these off the ground, and the end product works out extremely cheap, so I would appreciate some user feed back if possible. Don... https://www.32v8.com/1 |
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| Nick Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
Well, someone must be manufacturing the old original Atari Joystick because there are several people on ebay selling them new. Atari Joystick Ebay Link Maybe contact them and ask if they can do a bulk lot at a more competative price. Better still, find out who the manufacturer is and contact them direct. Nick |
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| MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
Nick, it indeed seems they are still made. But 30US$ and on top of that 50-60 US$ for shipping is insane. I not give up yet, the manufacturer(s) of those sticks seem not eager to be known i am afraid. I am not really a fan of the nunchuk as they not offer good control, maybe i am just old. Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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| Nick Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 512 |
Yes, too expensive. Certainly, way too much for a $10 stick. The Nunchuk is not the primary control system for the Wii. It supplemented the WiiMote controller, hence it's not good for certain games. Of course, we have a USB interface on the Maximite. Can command in the firmware be written to read a USB joystick/GamePad/Mouse? Nick |
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| MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
The USB is connected as a device. If you want to use keyboard/mouse/joystick then it has to be in a host mode. This requires that it is wired a little differently. On my CMM clone i do this by using jumpers, the UBW32 has host capability too. Microchip has a library that allows HID devices to be connected and has sample programs for a USB keyboard. So it could be done, it is however not easy. The Sony PS2 controllers are serial, it is kind of a SPI which is pretty easy. The protocol is known and in the Arduino world there are solutions that can be adapted. The super best would be the arcade style joysticks. For what they are the price is certainly cheap and they work with micro switches that last a long time. A completed joystick is again very expensive, but using the parts, making a suitable case offer it as a kit or assembled might be possible. The 9-pin connector has all the signals that is needed so i stick to that and if someone has an Atari joystick they can plug it right in. For use with other joysticks a small interface converting the signals to an Atari style might loose some functionality but offers the possibility to plug in what you have or can afford to buy. Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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| sharkos Newbie  Joined: 04/05/2013 Location: United StatesPosts: 3 |
Hi Guys, New member of the forum and also a new Colour Maximite user. I've been working on this joystick thing myself, and I agree it is a tricky subject. I decided to build a breakout board for sampling with this. Right now, I've got a 9PIN DSUB (atari pinout) matching the pins specs used in some of the other max games. I'm also trying to figure out the best way to also add a 15PIN DSUB (PC Game Port). Here is a pic of the board: 
Also, I noticed that people seem to be forgetting about the Sega Genesis controller (Sega Genesis Pinouts ). It is port compatible with the Atari, but adds additional buttons. I haven't figured out how to get the Multiplexed buttons working yet, but so far, I have the D-PAD and buttons B&C reading in MMBasic. I've created a blog about this project if anyone is interested. Chris Tusa's Maximite Blog |
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