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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : New BBC Micro and the Micomite
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Bill.b Senior Member  Joined: 25/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 236 |
This is an interesting link from the UK http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03..._bit_giveaway/ would be a great if our government would do the same with micromits or maxys. Edit: It looks like this URL does not work. The forum removes the underscores and inserts spaces after the ..._bit_giveaway. Bill In the interests of the environment, this post has been constructed entirely from recycled electrons. |
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bigmik Guru  Joined: 20/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2956 |
Sorry Bill, What is that link about? I cannot seem to find it even going to the site and doing a search for bit giveaway. Regards, Mick Mick's uMite Stuff can be found >>> HERE (Kindly hosted by Dontronics) <<< |
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| Bill.b Senior Member Joined: 25/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 236 |
Hi Mick yes I have trouble accessing it though this site. I found this on the picaxe forum. try this link. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/12/bbc_coding_kids_1_million_micro_bit_giveaway/ Bill In the interests of the environment, this post has been constructed entirely from recycled electrons. |
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| srnet Senior Member Joined: 08/08/2014 Location: United KingdomPosts: 164 |
What is really intriguing, is what language will it use ? $50SAT is Silent but probably still working. For information on LoRa visit http://www.loratracker.uk/ |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2948 |
I am monitoring this one closely. Check out this link from the BBC here in the UK. From this page there are many other links to follow. In summary, every 11year school kid is to be given one of these PCBs. It contains an Arm processor, and is programmed in either TouchDevelo, Python, or C++. It is meant as a 'stepping stone' to bigger, more complex devices such as the RPi, Arduino, Edison etc. However, they have totally missed the point of 'Simplicity' which is where the MicroMite comes in. I am working on a project here in the UK involving Schools and a MicroMite product (Geoff is aware of this) and the release of these BBC units will actually only help the 'awareness' of my product once people realise there is still very limited usage with the BBC MicroBit. As Bill.b says in his original post, the Australian government could do something similar based on a MicroMite!! Anyone got any powerful/influential contacts over there?? 
WW |
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kiiid Guru Joined: 11/05/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 671 |
I am working on such project too, although funded through private channels. Would be very glad to meet you and exchange ideas over a glass of something 
PS. I am not far away from where you are. http://rittle.org -------------- |
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| robert.rozee Guru Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 2447 |
for those who don't want to click-through: 
looking at this i have to wonder a few things: 1. why is it any better than giving every kid a RPi model A+ at a cost of just 12 pounds each? the RPi foundation seems to have put quite some effort into making the A+ a viable teaching platform. 2. what useful things can be done with so little hardware - is there more on the other side of the PCB? is it really 'less than' an arduino? and why not just re-package an arduino? is it different in any material way to a lilypad? i'm pretty sure that what we see won't be running python directly. 
3. why on earth the 5x5 matrix of LEDs? a scrolling display of the child's name perhaps? this appears to be very much a tethered device, and even if not the LEDs seem to add little value. on the plus side, i think the 8 PTH attachment points are a neat idea - i presume they are to allow attaching wires with crocodile clips. a nice cheap solution for making connections to the outside world when using for lab experiments. an idea that geoff might like to consider (and could well be what WhiteWizzard is working on) is an MX270 with the onboard USB implemented, on a PCB with those neat attachment points down the sides. my own opinion/feeling is that such a "micromite+" could be used for so much more in a learning environment. as always, just my opinions here! cheers, rob :-) |
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| srnet Senior Member Joined: 08/08/2014 Location: United KingdomPosts: 164 |
In what way is the device more complex than it needs be ? My own thoughts were that an embedded language along the lines of MM Basic, would have been about right for 11 year olds, especailly as you can try out commands without actually loading a program. $50SAT is Silent but probably still working. For information on LoRa visit http://www.loratracker.uk/ |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2948 |
Programmed in C++ - what percentage of primary school kids (aged 5-11) would find C++ 'simple'? Trials I am conducting here indicate that MMBasic is easy to 'get to grips with' for even a total beginner. Two lines of code and they turn on an LED. One more and they switch it off again. and another four lines and they have a flashing LED - all easily achievable in the duration of the average class time (40minutes). So the MicroBit has some LEDs on it but like mentioned in Rob's post; what's the point? However, that said, no doubt we shall see some great 'creations' come from this device . . . . WW |
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| srnet Senior Member Joined: 08/08/2014 Location: United KingdomPosts: 164 |
I would agree, I did think the C++ bit was a wind up, or maybe it was intended for 16-18 year olds. Keep up the good work. $50SAT is Silent but probably still working. For information on LoRa visit http://www.loratracker.uk/ |
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| kiiid Guru Joined: 11/05/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 671 |
C++ is not intended for anyone. You may have 30-40 years programming career and still may very well struggle with it. I remember some years ago read in an interview Bjarne Stroustrup (not sure about the spelling) saying that C++ was created ultimately to keep the level high enough so not everyone can be too good at it. Could be a joke of course, but makes sense. The ideal language for a starter is Pascal I think, but it is greatly overlooked these days, while the alternative (BASIC) is generally not considered as a 'serious' programming language, ever for a starter. C-like languages, including Java, are probably the worst possible choice (well, except for Brainf**k maybe) for early education in programming. EDIT: Interesting... the website automatically edited the name of the language. B-r-a-i-n-f-u-c-k, I mean http://rittle.org -------------- |
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MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
Microsoft is involved so it might even be .net framework and c#. I find C# (the basics) not too difficult to start with and it is a pretty powerful and modern language to get some real things done. Still Basic, especially an interpreted version is so easy to teach. I have done some workshops with people that knew nothing about computers or electronics and they got a LED blinking in no time and were able to change it. Progressing to a point where keypads, LCD's and other things were used just took a few hours. Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2948 |
Remember that this device is for school kids - most of which won't initially be interested in programming. So from that point of view, something that is quick and easy is essential to keep the kids 'interested' - they get bored after 5 minutes if they can't achieve something (fact!). Remembering that the device is not designed to be a 'programmers' gadget; but a 'kids' device that hopefully promotes creativity, then to say one language is better than another is almost irrelevant. To succeed in a school environment, a device like this needs to be quick (to do something), easy (to learn) and most importantly FUN (by being interactive in an 'interesting' way). Back in the 80's the BBC were responsible for a lot of kids getting into coding with the launch of a fantastic set of TV programs all about coding. Along with the BBC micro computer (and other home computers of the 80's) it was a great success and many kids went on to get jobs involving coding. Today they (the government and the BBC) along with other major players are trying to 're-create' those days and saying it is important to regenerate' that interest in coding. But the one trick I strongly feel everyone has overlooked is which programming language to use. If BASIC worked back then (and was so successful) then why not simply use it again? Just my thoughts and opinions but am interested in other peoples feedback. PLEASE lets not say one language is better than another (as coders) - but put yourself in the shoes of a school kid that has a Computer Science lesson lasting 45 minutes and has to achieve something in that time slot. Assume you have two lessons a week, 8 weeks a term, 3 terms a year. What would you want to get out of a years worth of Computer Science lessons?? WW |
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| hitsware Guru Joined: 23/11/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 535 |
I think that nowdays Basic is considered not worthy of being taught by the teachers and perhaps too simplistic (and hence uninteresting) by the students |
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| robert.rozee Guru Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 2447 |
much like reading and writing are being displaced by watching youtube videos and texting? oops, i believe that texting may now be considered obsolete too, replaced by something they call "snapchat". alas, you may be correct. but then the essential skills of programming are logic, flow control, and algorithms. all very fundamental concepts that are best taught without the overhead and 'bling' of modern languages. today we are far too happy to embrace the latest technology, at the expense of neglecting the fundamentals on which everything is built. rob :-) |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2948 |
This comment may mean one of two things: either the teachers consider Basic 'not worthy'; OR other people think it not worthy for teachers to teach Basic. Taking it by myself to mean the first thing; If I mention that most Computer Science teachers know next to nothing about coding then would that surprise you?? This is fact; so on that basis teachers don't have a 'programmers' perspective and hence don't have views/knowledge about different languages. The teacher simply wants something that gets 'them' through the lesson while achieving the topics set out in the curriculum. Therefore, surely 'simplistic' is a big plus in the eyes of the non-technical teacher? |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4071 |
Unless you've done some serious surveys I really wouldn't want to make that claim about "most" of them. Many people comment on Basic because of the long ago observations from Dijkstra et al. Now HE sure knew about "coding" and a lot more. John |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2948 |
@ JohnS Two points to respond to you with: 1> I say 'most' based on a trend of responses observed & researched during the last six months. At the recent BETT show in January where technology in education is the key theme, I met around 60 school teachers that teach the new Computer Science curriculum. Only 2 (yes TWO) said they felt comfortable with teaching programming, and BOTH said that they felt that the Raspberry Pi and Scratch were the wrong tools to use (they also mentioned Arduino's and other similar kit). They said C++ (and variants of C) were too complex for primary school kids, and that they felt something 'similar to home computers of the 80's' would be a perfect introduction to children. Also several newspaper articles back in Sept/Oct last year commented on the lack of teachers with the necessary skills to teach coding due to their lack of coding experience. I have spoken to various global teaching bodies (some governmental) that all say they have concerns with teaching coding in schools (again the lack of teachers with the necessary knowledge). Countries include: Greece, France, Mauritius, Australia, New Zealand, Nigeria, Germany, Thailand, Spain, and obviously UK). So as I say, there seems to be a 'trend' here but I admit I have not spoken to every teacher in the UK and asked each of them individually for their own rating in terms of their coding knowledge & experience. 2> Your point about Dijkstra and Basic tells me that you think I am 100% behind Basic and that I'm stating that it is the language that should be used. Well no - I'm just saying that any language used in schools to teach coding needs to be 'easy' and 'simple' and at the moment I believe Basic best fits that criteria (let me emphasis: best fit for a primary school child who is a NON-programmer). Please let me know what language you think is most appropriate to teach coding to a primary school child as I really appreciate feedback in this area since it is now the area of business that I am heavily involved with and I am building up as much 'material' as possible from a diverse range of sources (I can start a new thread if people think necessary). WW |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4071 |
On 1> I now gather you were mainly by teachers meaning school ones and of those mainly primary - which was not stated or clear to me in the post I commented about. I expect schools, especially primary schools, will have a problem just as they do with maths i.e. wondering how to get anyone with both Computing and Teaching qualifications. I wonder if the same as maths will occur: the preference for Teaching qualifications even if no relevant maths (in this case Computing). It's not long since there were plenty of graduates with computing degrees who couldn't find jobs. Whether they can be or should be tempted into teaching I've no knowledge. On 2> I have no idea about 100% or why you assume that's what I think. Assume all you like but it's wrong. BTW, I wouldn't push C++ at anyone. Not anyone. Kids least of all. I don't think ANYONE knows - with evidence - the right language to teach primary school kids but I think some studies should be done to find out. Similar studies into many aspects of teaching & learning should be done but I am aware that many teachers and/or their unions resist such studies with phrases like unethical to experiment on kids. Well, rolling out subjects etc WITHOUT proper studies is worse, though it's what is done all the time. John |
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| srnet Senior Member Joined: 08/08/2014 Location: United KingdomPosts: 164 |
Not at all, we should take that as a given. What may be viewed as the ‘best’ language to teach is perhaps only a secondary concern. If the teachers do not understand the language or environment, then the whole idea could be a non-starter, unless additional training for teachers were provided, which seems unlikely. $50SAT is Silent but probably still working. For information on LoRa visit http://www.loratracker.uk/ |
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