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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Program Erased
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| srnet Senior Member  Joined: 08/08/2014 Location: United KingdomPosts: 164 |
While testing the power options for the LoRa receiver (see other thread) the receiver program erased itself. At the time the FTDI adapter was not connected, there was a pullup resistor of Console TX output but Console RX was open circuit. Whilst there should maybe of been a pullup on Console RX, self erasure of the program is not good, you may not have a PC handy to re-program the MicroMite. Would it be possible to remove the MMBasic reset facility completly ? I understand its there to recover from a lost PIN situation, but I would rather sacrifice that facilty if you could be sure the program will not erase itself. $50SAT is Silent but probably still working. For information on LoRa visit http://www.loratracker.uk/ |
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9594 |
Has this happened to you before? I hear some people have been having this false-erase situation. It has never happened to me - yet. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| srnet Senior Member Joined: 08/08/2014 Location: United KingdomPosts: 164 |
First time, although I have only been using the Micromite for a month or so. $50SAT is Silent but probably still working. For information on LoRa visit http://www.loratracker.uk/ |
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| srnet Senior Member Joined: 08/08/2014 Location: United KingdomPosts: 164 |
My program erased itself again. I was investigating why my PCF8563 RTC was using around 150uA in backup mode, cutting pins, removing components etc. When I powered the circuit back up my program was gone. There is an openlog on the Console TX, and the openlog has a 4k7 pull up on it to ensure a clean start. There is nothing on Console RX apart from the FTDI adapter. Would it be possible to have an option to disable this emergency erase feature ? $50SAT is Silent but probably still working. For information on LoRa visit http://www.loratracker.uk/ |
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disco4now Guru  Joined: 18/12/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1000 |
I have had the program erased on my MMII based on Mick's MUP a few times when fiddling with power supply. Again on recent power outages. I can even sort of reproduce it by flicking 240v power switch to the plug pack off and on a the right interval, so power to MMII just fades but not fully gone.(The console was not connected) I added the MCP130T-315I/TT supervisory chip (as used on the SkinnyMite) to control the reset on brownouts and have not been able to reproduce the erasure as yet. Regards Gerry Latest F4 Latest H7 FotS |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9594 |
Interesting. Any other members seeing this in their MM chips as of now? I know there was talk of this a while back, but up until now, that subject seemed to have gone, so... PERSONALLY, I think that the default settings thing should be dropped. This is ONLY my 2c - make of that what you will. My reasons for this are: 1) Occasional reports like this one - it's not a good thing to have spontaneous erasure of the code within the MM, if the MM seems to think that the TXD and RXD pins are shorted at power-up(even if they are not). 2) In the event that you set the console baud-rate to something unknown, or set a PIN number and then forget it, it would be a better idea to have the chip simply locked like that, and to fix it, you have to reflash the MMBASIC firmware into it. As has been mentioned by many members here now, PICkit-3 clones are very affordable now(less then $50), and with that, you can program the chip with the MMBASIC firmware and not need to rely on never tripping up the pre-programmed firmware. Using MPLAB-X instead of the IPE, once you have perfected your code and everything is running the way you want, you can then use MPLAB to suck the entire code from the chip into a file - MMBASIC and your running code as one file. You can then re-flash the chip with THAT hex file, and it restores both MMBASIC and your running code in one whack. This is the way I prefer to do things with more permanent projects. ...but again, this is only my 2c opinion, so......... 
EDIT: Perhaps that is the simplest solution for ALL concerned? This would allow those who want to keep the default idea, but protect against those dirty-power situations, which seem to be one of the main causes of these self-erasure issues. The MCP130 is very cheap, but it DOES add to the overall cost, if you are trying to keep prices as cheap as possible. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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G8JCF Guru Joined: 15/05/2014 Location: United KingdomPosts: 676 |
I think that an "Option NoReset True" would be useful, ie once a uMite was being put into production, issue an Option NoReset True and then shorting the TX/RX pins together would have no affect. As Grogster says, then one has to erase the whole chip. This seems to me to be the proper behaviour for Production Quality systems. Stuff in development/hobby etc is different and resetting by shorting TX/RX is useful and cheap way out of a hung program. In summary: New argument to command Option NoReset True - Shorting TX/RX together on power on has NO affect NoReset False - Shorting TX/RX togther on power on resets the flash/baudrate etc The default is Option NoReset False Just my tuppence worth Peter The only Konstant is Change |
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| PicFan Senior Member Joined: 18/03/2014 Location: AustriaPosts: 133 |
Hello ! That's my only, but biggest problem with the Micromite MK2 4.6b. I have several battery-powered projects, but I can neither release as when changing the battery in 8 of 10 cases, the program is lost. Geoff, please help !! Thank you and best regards from Austria! Wolfgang PS: We are a group of 3 hobbyists with the same big problem! |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4038 |
I'd vote NoErase as the default (if the feature stays at all). Mine had been erased before I even got to do any testing! John |
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| matherp Guru Joined: 11/12/2012 Location: United KingdomPosts: 10251 |
If you want to get rid of erase just do it! Download the source from mmbasic.com Install MPLABX and XC32 (v1.32 or v1.33). Activate the trial of the full licence to allow optimisation 2 comment out line 143 in main.c - "ResetAllFlash(); " compile and reflash your chip |
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twofingers Guru Joined: 02/06/2014 Location: GermanyPosts: 1579 |
I got the same issue. AFAIK is Geoff already working on it. Please let him some time to fix it. causality ≠correlation ≠coincidence |
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| G8JCF Guru Joined: 15/05/2014 Location: United KingdomPosts: 676 |
PeterM 
PeterC The only Konstant is Change |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4038 |
And re-do the licence hassle when it's expired. Yep, pretty user-friendly. It's 1st May not April... John |
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| matherp Guru Joined: 11/12/2012 Location: United KingdomPosts: 10251 |
John I've been looking over your posts and it seems you never contribute - only snipe at others My solution is not ideal but would get round srnet and picfan's short term problems whilst waiting on a permanent solution from Geoff. They can decide if it is a useful idea without your "contribution" |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 4038 |
I wrote the free (*) programming code. (*) but needs cheap (from £0 to £1 to £3 to £25) hardware depending on which you choose I've contributed about C. I've suggested any number of things as well. If you mean contributed my code to Geoff's closed source, no. I choose not to. I've made it very clear I'd contribute if it was open (as it once was). You might perhaps not have noticed it was me that kept suggesting the STM32F4 as a new host for MMBasic. John |
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| srnet Senior Member Joined: 08/08/2014 Location: United KingdomPosts: 164 |
Well, thanks for the tip which I will try, but I suspect that whilst it may be straight forward for those that already know how to use the apprpriate tools to do that, its not so easy for the rest of us. $50SAT is Silent but probably still working. For information on LoRa visit http://www.loratracker.uk/ |
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| robert.rozee Guru Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 2437 |
loss of stored basic code (through an 'emergency recovery' triggered unintentionally) on the micromite does seem to be a recurring theme that comes up regularly, to the extent that it is pretty much proven that it does happen on occasion. as i have suggested before, i favour mandating the need to insert a "key" device of some sort as the first step to enable any 'reset to factory' option - either a DS18B20 or just an NPN transistor (inverter) wired up between TxD and RxD: 
very sound arguments can also be put for having some way to permanently disable the 'emergency recovery' feature completely for a finished project, though i feel this should be something that has to be explicitly enabled by the user, rather than the default behaviour. geoff graham did enter into the discussion about all this in an earlier thread: http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7424 it would be good to hear if he has plans for the next release of micromite basic to address the problem. cheers, rob :-) |
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Geoffg Guru Joined: 06/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 3285 |
My current plan is to just disable the feature. It seemed like a good idea at the time but with PICKit3 clones for US$20 it is just as easy to reprogram the chip. Geoff Graham - http://geoffg.net |
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| PicFan Senior Member Joined: 18/03/2014 Location: AustriaPosts: 133 |
Hi Geoff ! This is the best solution! Many thanks and best regards from Tyrol! Wolfgang |
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| G8JCF Guru Joined: 15/05/2014 Location: United KingdomPosts: 676 |
Geoff, could I ask that you please reconsider your decision to eliminate this functionality completely and implement the Option NoReset True|False idea ? From looking at the STM32 ArmMite source code, it looks really simple to implement. Thanks Peter The only Konstant is Change |
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