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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : old keyboard
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palcal Guru  Joined: 12/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1804 |
For a bit of nostalgia I decided to fire up an old computer I built about 30 years ago. It is an Applix 1616 and I think it appeared in ETI mag. It uses a Motorola 68000 running at 7.5MHz and has a floppy drive. It fired up OK and I get the banner on the screen but I no longer have the old AT keyboard so I used a PS/2 keyboard with a 6 pin mini din to 5 pin din keyboard adaptor. I confirmed the adaptor pinout and is OK. The keyboard does sort of work but produces all sorts of random characters. Do I need to get an old keyboard? Paul. "It is better to be ignorant and ask a stupid question than to be plain Stupid and not ask at all" |
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9066 |
My guess would be yes. AT and PS/2 keyboards are not the same, although, many PS/2 ones are AT backwards compatible. ...by the same token, many PS/2 ones are not... I have a system that needs an AT keyboard, and luckily I have one. It also won't work with a PS/2 and adaptor connected, it must be the old 5-pin DIN AT keyboard, or it won't work. I expect your problem is the same. Good luck! Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5913 |
Even with the 5 pin plug, it still might have problems. The earlier XT keyboards were different to the AT. The first AT keyboards had a switch to allow you to select the protocol. It is unlikely, but I might have one "in the shed". The only problem is, I am on the other side of the world so I will not be able to check for a while..... Jim VK7JH MMedit  MMBasic Help |
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| palcal Guru Joined: 12/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1804 |
OK that's a start, if any one happens to have one in their junk box it would be most appreciated. I found one on EBay but they want $50 and $25 postage. Paul. "It is better to be ignorant and ask a stupid question than to be plain Stupid and not ask at all" |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9066 |
I will have a hunt around and see what I have here, and will let you know if I find anything. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| palcal Guru Joined: 12/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1804 |
There was nothing wrong with the old keyboard but when I moved a couple of years ago I had 3 keyboards and decided to throw that one out because it was the oldest. Maybe it had mechanical switches and the new ones have the capacitive type. The old computer has 2 serial ports and I have a program on one of the floppies I want to try and port to my MM ( probably my next problem). Paul. "It is better to be ignorant and ask a stupid question than to be plain Stupid and not ask at all" |
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bigmik Guru Joined: 20/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2870 |
Hi Paul, At my work we still use a lot of 286, 386 and 486 based equipment (based on AT PCs). Of course these all have the larger 5 pin DIN Audio style plug. We use PS2 adapters to talk to these and never have an issue. So I would say PS2 and AT protocol on the keyboards are identical.. Now if the Applix 1616 required an XT keyboard protocol that would be an entirely different situation, as Jim pointed out the communication (and the key codes) are different from XT to AT. Early AT keyboards needed to be switched from XT to AT later ones were auto detect. The keyboard interface is bi-directional and the PC sends out a code (55 I think for AT type with a response of AA, cant remember the XT code). You may need an XT keyboard which would be difficult to find I would think.. Regards, Mick Mick's uMite Stuff can be found >>> HERE (Kindly hosted by Dontronics) <<< |
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| bigmik Guru Joined: 20/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2870 |
Hi Paul, I did a Dr Google and found the manual here..Applix 1616 Manual from this site Applix 1616 site Near the bottom of page 13 it states the following: Plug an IBM XT compatible keyboard into the left hand 5 pin DIN socket. If there is a switch on the underside of the keyboard, it must be set to the ‘XT’ position, not the ‘AT’ position, before switching on the power to the computer So Unfortunately you need an XT compatible keyboard... Good luck in finding one. Regards, Mick Mick's uMite Stuff can be found >>> HERE (Kindly hosted by Dontronics) <<< |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9066 |
......oh dear...... 
Not easy. 
I know I don't have any of those. @ Mick - what are you still using 286, 386 and 486 machines for these days? Just curious. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| bigmik Guru Joined: 20/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2870 |
Grogs, You won't believe it, I hardly believe it myself, our betting system front end is based on 386 AT based terminals, these are coming up to 23 years old and still running.. We will run about 600 at the Melbourne cup this year.. Regards, Mick Mick's uMite Stuff can be found >>> HERE (Kindly hosted by Dontronics) <<< |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9066 |
That actually gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside - that some really old computers are still in use like that.   Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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BobDevries Senior Member  Joined: 08/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 266 |
I have three computers which use XT keyboards... Applix 1616, IMS MM/1 and SECAD Systems AS68K. They are all from the late '90's, and all are Motorola 68000 based. All except the AS68K still work and are in sort-of active service. It is indeed hard to get XT keyboards nowadays.
There is an adapter available on the N8VEM website which uses a PIC chip to do the protocol conversion. I haven't tried it yet.... when I get a round tuit... Regards, Bob Devries Dalby, QLD, Australia |
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| palcal Guru Joined: 12/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1804 |
I found this, seems easy to build PS/2 to XT converter Paul "It is better to be ignorant and ask a stupid question than to be plain Stupid and not ask at all" |
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| Chris Roper Senior Member Joined: 19/05/2015 Location: South AfricaPosts: 280 |
Not Mick, but if I can jump in here, the company I used to work for relocated its head office. During the move I discovered an old and dust encrusted IBM 386SX PC connected to a small UPS hidden under a desk in the corner. No one had any Idea where it had come from, but It turned out to be the server in a peer to peer network, running the first release of MS-NET, and hosting most of their files. It had been running constantly for nearly 20 years.....! They don't make hardware, software or UPS Battery's that reliable these days :) http://caroper.blogspot.com/ |
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| bigmik Guru Joined: 20/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2870 |
Hi Chris, I am not really surprised the PC kept going but I am stunned that the UPS still worked.. In our case, sometime in the next 3-300 years, they will be replacing our terminals with more modern units, however they wish these to be Ethernet based which has brought up a heaps of issues. Currently we run terminals up to 1500m (nearly 1 mile) away from the main server. These are in a daisy chain type cabling using RS485 4-wire (full duplex) communications (2 comm port channels for redundancy). Going to Ethernet requires no more than 100m of copper `runs' so we either have to put in Ethernet switches (max about 3 or 4 in a run) along the way or run fibre to media converters and then copper the last bit (less than 100m) We are currently doing just that for some newer self serve terminals we support. That of course is at great infrastructure expense and logistically requires many spares and knowledge of where each node is `hidden' away on an entire racetrack (this bit is harrowing). Then do you leave the nodes ON or turn them off each day?? Adds hours to already long days if you have to do this (we don't, these nodes are backed up with UPS's and left on 24/7). Then if you lose a node or a cable gets cut or crushed (you have no idea what it can be like finding these problems) you dont have the redundancy we have with the old 23 year old 386DX terminals.. Then when we have temporary terminals in marquees (could be 50+ terminals in these huge marquee compounds) running cat5/6 cabling is a nightmare compared to a daisy chained in-out cabling system. So sometimes modern technology isnt as good as the newer faster technology out there. Sorry for the long winded slightly/greatly off topic post here. Regards, Mick Mick's uMite Stuff can be found >>> HERE (Kindly hosted by Dontronics) <<< |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9066 |
You put it well, Mick. In such a case, and if that is explained to your client, perhaps they would see the logic in staying with the 485 arrangement? Unless there is some drastic reason that the replacement terminals HAVE to be Ethernet... Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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