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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Free microcomputer to every yr7 child UK.
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| JohnL Senior Member  Joined: 10/01/2014 Location: SeychellesPosts: 128 |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/aboutthebbc/entries/973da993-d4b0-4277-b2cc-c692c15dd227 ARM based, no sign of easy BASIC programming? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/4hVG2Br1W1LKCmw8nSm9WnQ/introducing-the-bbc-micro-bit https://developer.mbed.org/platforms/Microbit/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6YfP7dRP5Q |
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| matherp Guru  Joined: 11/12/2012 Location: United KingdomPosts: 8592 |
Language designed and developed by Microsoft  |
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kiiid Guru Joined: 11/05/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 671 |
This has been mentioned here a few times already. I can only say "ARM-based: God save the children!"... http://rittle.org -------------- |
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| JohnL Senior Member Joined: 10/01/2014 Location: SeychellesPosts: 128 |
https://www.touchdevelop.com/microbit |
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9066 |
...to probably lock the youngsters into having to buy more and more code libraries for whatever they might want to do, with time-limited use, and/or subscriptions to lock you into paying for their language use forever... Microsoft give discounts to no-one, so I doubt they are the language developers for free and for the good of the project - everything is for making a profit. BBC should have had a look at the MICROMITE!!!!!! Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2794 |
NO THEY SHOULDN"T HAVE! Trust me they would have messed that up too! 
We did look at the BBC tender for launching a product into schools but how can you compete against MicroSoft, ARM, and Samsung?? I am certainly up for a challenge but not when the decision makers are 'blinkered'. For everything Micromite visit micromite.org Direct Email: whitewizzard@micromite.o |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9066 |
Ha, ha, ha!!! Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| kiiid Guru Joined: 11/05/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 671 |
Wondering... Why did you remove that interesting info?  http://rittle.org -------------- |
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| WhiteWizzard Guru Joined: 05/04/2013 Location: United KingdomPosts: 2794 |
Need to clarify something with Geoff first!!
For everything Micromite visit micromite.org Direct Email: whitewizzard@micromite.o |
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MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
As a professional developer using MS development environment i have to correct this. The IDE's are free since the express editions were introduced many years ago. As a programmer you not need to spend one cent to develop products and all libraries are part of that too. The latest is Visual Studio Community Edition which can be used to target many platforms and supports many languages. Even MMBasic if someone would write a plugin for VS. :) Visual Studio is one of the best IDE's out there and especially its debugger is super. The C# language is very popular and one of the best languages i have used. If kids would learn a language like C# i would think that would be very good as it has a lot in common with other modern languages. Microsoft pampers developers. If developers not create programs that run on their systems then not many windows OS'es will be sold. The profit is not from a developer. I have not paid Microsoft for any of their programming products. The last time i paid for a product was Visual Basic 6.0. Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3663 |
As I recall, MS got most of BASIC's features into their version about 20 years after they appeared in the language and generally speaking didn't design any of BASIC. Thankfully, it so far seems MS are not providing BASIC for the BBC Micro Bit. I'm wondering how would MMBasic be with only 16K RAM? John |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3663 |
I seem to recall that using the MS free versions you're not allowed to sell the result. Correct? (If so, it doesn't strike me as especially unreasonable.) John |
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| MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
Commercial and production is free of charge. (https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/products/visual-studio-express-vs.aspx) There are some limits in the Express editions, like sql server express edition has a limit of 10 Gb per database (no limit on number of databases or instances). For most applications that is enough, at least to get started. If successful and when you need more storage or capabilities that are not available in the express editions then you can upgrade to full versions without needing any conversions. Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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| JohnS Guru Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3663 |
That's quite a change to how it used to be (the free was strictly for non-commercial). John |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9066 |
@ TZA - So noted. Perhaps I was being a little harsh on MS then...... Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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Gizmo Admin Group Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5024 |
I do tend to think BASIC should be used as a first language to teach kids. If they want to do further studies into programming, then they can move to other languages. But to give kids a understanding of logic and computer code, then BASIC is the best choice. BASIC is less likely to scare them off than other languages. I'm in the process of teaching myself PHP. Till now I've been a strong user of various versions of MS's BASIC with MS Access or SQL for intranet/web development. But PHP has cross platform advantages and the Apache/PHP/MySQL combination has great power and community support, so as a intranet/web developer, I want to migrate to the dark side. I find PHP is close enough to Java to pick it up easily, and have been developing code with PHP for a few months now. But I also have projects written in BASIC ( Classic ASP mostly ) that I need to work on, and after using PHP for a week, a few hours with BASIC is a absolute pleasure! Its such a easy language, its like speaking english, and its easier on the fingers to type without all the contorted key strokes of PHP. If I were to teach a child a language, it would be BASIC. Once they get the hang of it, I would show them other languages and talk about the advantages and disadvantages of each. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| matherp Guru Joined: 11/12/2012 Location: United KingdomPosts: 8592 |
Gizmo Much as many of us oldies may agree with you, I think that horse has bolted. My issue with languages such as C# is not the language itself but the amount of stuff you have to know before you can do anything useful. Just google "C# serial port" for the complexity of just setting up basic serial communication. If we start with "Hello World", the C# version of this is: // A Hello World! program in C#.
using System; namespace HelloWorld { class Hello { static void Main() { Console.WriteLine("Hello World!"); // Keep the console window open in debug mode. Console.WriteLine("Press any key to exit."); Console.ReadKey(); } } } Now my questions are things like: what is a namespace? what does "class" do? etc. However, I don't think kids think like this they just get stuck in and accept/copy and then build on it.Then when it comes time to understand a "namespace" it is no issue for them. All modern languages are to some extent Object Orientated. To me this requires a different mindset to "old-fashioned" procedural languages, one I fully admit to struggling with, and I'm not sure migrating from procedural is the correct way in for kids. My concern for the future is that kids have no concept of the underlying architecture of the machines they are using and are totally reliant on having almost unlimited amounts of computing power available to them. They will be applications programmers in the strict sense, but where will the systems programmers come from? What Geoff has done with the Micromite firmware, and what I have tried to do with the various Cfunctions etc. is get a quart out of a pint pot, using the underlying hardware as efficiently as possible. It may be we are all just too old-fashioned; if you look at the things happening in the "embedded" space, Microchip and STM etc. are now hiding the actual hardware behind abstraction layers so that programmers don't need to understand the actual hardware, they just need to wade through reams of documentation to find a routine that does what they want on chips that are becoming ever more powerful. |
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| hitsware Guru Joined: 23/11/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 535 |
> Its such a easy language, its like speaking english, Precisely. But that fact turns it into an unneeded second course in English . It ( in the eyes of education ) is perhaps so easy as to be meaningless ...... |
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G8JCF Guru Joined: 15/05/2014 Location: United KingdomPosts: 676 |
'C' is a really horrible language for anything OTHER THAN Systems Programming. I really like C because it lets me get at everything/anywhere in a system, but then again I also really like programming in Assembler. C# is a truly beautiful language, it's what C++ should have been - it's just a shame that C# only works on .NET/MONO platforms. BASIC is a real jack of all trades master of none hodge-podge; MMBasic with CFunctions combines the ease of use and approachability of BASIC with the unassailable Systems Programming abilities of C/Assembly language. I'd be happy if most kids learnt BASIC, and then a few learnt C#/VB/JScript/JAVA/PERL, and even fewer learnt C, and then even fewer still learnt Assembler - most kids don't even get as far as BASIC :( Peter The only Konstant is Change |
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| hitsware Guru Joined: 23/11/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 535 |
> most kids don't even get as far as BASIC :( In todays paradyme most of the one's that do will skip it and go on to whatever ........... |
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