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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : MS installs W10 "By accident"...
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9063 |
W10 just keeps getting better at forcing itself on you. This link explains how the latest update tends to try to force a W10 upgrade weather you actually want it or not: W10 and the MS policy of forcing it on everyone scares me. So much so, I have been doing some serious Linux research for my next machine. I only 'Need' Windows for a couple of programs like Sprint Layout, which don't have Linux versions, but I expect they may well run in WINE under Linux - I would need to test that theory. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| JohnS Guru  Joined: 18/11/2011 Location: United KingdomPosts: 3659 |
In case this is of interest... It's easy (except perhaps with Win10 / secure boot PCs - haven't got either to try) to have both Windows & Linux on the same PC and multi-boot. Obviously I recommend a full image backup before the following. (I do them using Linux dd command.) It's easiest if you can shrink C: to make enough room. To find out, Control Panel -> Computer Management -> Disk Management. Click on C: then right click and choose Shrink Volume. Wait and see if there's lots of space then shrink it. After that boot a Linux distro you fancy and it'll be happy to go in that now free area. It should also make a boot menu that lets you choose Windows or Linux (you can set either as the default and choose your preferred timeout). Caution: I've never wanted to undo this... John |
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BobD Guru Joined: 07/12/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 935 |
KB3035583 made it through on my win 8.1 machine and installed. I had it as a previously hidden update from back in July and it still installed again. No problem, as soon as I saw the Window icon in the notifications area I uninstalled it and made it hidden again. It's a bit odd to see it hidden twice. It shows that hidden updates can be over-ridden whether by intent or accident. 
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| hitsware Guru Joined: 23/11/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 535 |
Even easier (for me anyways) : Put Linux to try on USB drive and set PC to boot from USB ..... Most distros seem to have this alternative .... |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9063 |
@ JohnS - yes, lots of people tend to setup a dual-boot arrangement, and that does make sense if you need to be in Windows or Linux often. @ BobD - YES, I have also seen this myself. I got rid of 3035583 on many machines to stop it pestering the user about W10, and although that DID work to remove the reminder annoyances, at least a couple of people have called me back to say the bloody notices are back again. And they were!   I uninstalled them again, and unchecked them again, but as you say.......
@ hitsware - I like Puppy Linux myself, but that is not to say I won't find another one I like better. There are so many distro choices in the Linux world, it all becomes something of a blur.  I hear good things about Linux Mint, and even Raspian on the Raspberry Pi 2(the quad-core one) is good for a desktop - on a tiny $50 Pi board.  I think I would die of natural causes before I could try out all the different Linux distros.  Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1310 |
Had the same problem, removed KB3035583, and hid it. It installed itself again a few months later. Went through the same procedure and it hasn't appeared again. The same thing happened on two different W8.1 machines at about the same time. Cheers Don... https://www.32v8.com/1 |
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vegipete Guru Joined: 29/01/2013 Location: CanadaPosts: 1082 |
Grogster, I can confirm that SprintLayout 6 _does_ work on Linux with Wine. I recall some minor oddities with the display but nothing important. Visit Vegipete's *Mite Library for cool programs. |
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| BobD Guru Joined: 07/12/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 935 |
Microsoft are at it again. I had the Win 10 updater KB3035583 hidden and my Win 8.1 machine advised me this afternoon of an outstanding update. It was the old favourite KB3035583 back again. They had removed it from the hidden list. It's hidden again. I wonder how long that will last this time? |
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| donmck Guru Joined: 09/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1310 |
I have now hidden it again on two machines for the third time. Far too aggressive. Having updated a friend's PC to W10, I found that the old windows version is saved in a dir called "windows.old" so that it can be rolled back. Unfortunately this requires between 15gb and 25gb spare on your drive. After 30 days the "windows.old" dir is automatically removed. Cheers Don... https://www.32v8.com/1 |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9063 |
Frankly, W10 being as enthusiastic as it is about upgrading, I am surprised that they even give you the option of going back to your previous Windows version later.... Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| BobD Guru Joined: 07/12/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 935 |
Grogs IIRC it's a bit of a poisoned chalice to go back. I think the desktop applications need to be manually re-installed. It's not all easy. Bob |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9063 |
@ BobD - W10's upgrade policies and default snooping notwithstanding, what do you think of W10 in general? Once you turn off all the guff with the likes of ShutUp10, my first impressions are not too negative - it seems to do all that is asked of it - probably much more in the background if not turned off with a utility application such as in the link above......... Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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Bryan1 Guru Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1210 |
Yea in the last few days I did and update on this laptop and not surprising that dreaded virus popup was there. So duly went into the control panel to find the offending file only to find there was 3 of them, so uninstalled each in turn and got rid of that dreaded popup. Being on the Fraudband Sat with a pultry 10/20 gig plan costing more than the burb plans could end up costing us a small fortune if that virus got it's way. Anyway hopefully in the new year we will get ADSL 2+ and it will be cheaper for a 400gig plan than for the fraudband LTSS service for a 1/10th of the data. So thanks for the heads up on this guy's it could of saved a heap of heartache not having the net over xmas. Cheers Bryan |
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| BobD Guru Joined: 07/12/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 935 |
Grogs I think Win 10 is OK. I have upgraded 3 out of 4 of my machines / partitions but I'm holding out on my main machine which is still running win 8.1. Win 10 is always going to be a work in progress but for me so far the work hasn't progressed far enough. There are just a few too many rough edges. Three of my machines run SSDs and their performance is quite acceptable but my Win 10 test system is still a standard hard drive. So far, it is unacceptably slow to boot. It is almost a twin (applications wise) to my 8.1 system. Until I sort out the sluggishness then I stay on win 8.1. I am comparing hardware oranges with oranges because the 8.1 and the win 10 test system are just partitions on the same multi-boot machine with 16GB of memory and the processor running at about 4.5GHz. If I have to then I will maintain win 8.1 even after the free upgrade period finishes and still get my free upgrade. I will fully backup win 8.1 and then install win 10 and then re-install win 8.1 from the backup. Apart from changing the boot menu entry, my system won't even know what I have done. Boot menu entries can be backed up and also easily adjusted. Bob |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9063 |
When first released with all the snooping, I would not have touched W10 with a forty-foot pole, but now that there are at least a couple of different "XP anti-spy for Windows 10" type applications that will automate the switching off of all that guff, I am more willing to look at it. The problem with the utilities that turn that stuff off, is that as updates are mandatory in W10, the auto-update process could easily switch all that stuff back on again without telling you, so you'd probably have to get used to periodically running those anti-snoop utilities to keep up with MS. I've been having quite a lot of success with Ubuntu Linux and WINE for the three or four Windows-only applications I use, and they seem to work just fine under WINE in Linux, albeit not quite as zippy as natively in Windows on the exact same hardware, but I guess that is to be expected under emulation. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| BobD Guru Joined: 07/12/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 935 |
Some new info about upgrading (or not) to Win 10. Ed Bott from ZDNet has been active last week in producing a permanent block and today he announces that Microsoft has published some additional info on the subject which confirms his advice. Here are several links on the subject. If you just want to block accidental Win 10 upgrades then the first or second links are enough. The Microsoft KB covers a few scenarios which are probably not relevant to most people. http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-block-windows-10-upgrades-on-your-business-network-and-at-home-too/ http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-expands-get-windows-10-program-to-domains-publishes-opt-out-instructions/ https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080351 |
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| hitsware Guru Joined: 23/11/2012 Location: United StatesPosts: 535 |
Since I have 2 identical PC's Both with 8.1 begging to be upgraded to 10 ( 1 in the house ... 1 in the shed ) AND ... Recently got a second dedicated internet hookup for the shed , I decided to try 10 in the shed , and compare . I must say I like 10 quite well with 1 major reservation .... The install ( and perhaps some downloading ) time . It took all of an afternoon for the ' upgrade ' ..... ?????? And perhaps some downloads are slow , but I need more tries with that . |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9063 |
BIT OF A RANT START: I have no complaints about W10 in and of itself. My gripe is like most in the IT crowd, and that is it's apparent invasion of privacy in the name of customising advertising sent to you. I have two major problems with that: (1) I simply don't want MS snooping around in my systems looking for things that they can target advertising on(to say nothing of the bit in the EULA where if they think they have found you are doing something naughty, they can report you to the appropriate agency - big brother gone mand) and (2) I don't want my frickin' OS to send me ads in the first place. Shut Up 10 automates turning all that stuff off, but I have noticed already that the forced automatic updates in W10 already find that stuff that was turned off, and turn it back on again without saying anything - you have to run SU10 almost weekly to keep that stuff off - I would love a registry hack to get around that problem. At the end of the day, until there is a definite way to kill off that kind of behaviour, I doubt I will be moving to W10 on my main W8.1 machine any time soon. The best way to stop this is PROBABLY a 3rd party way to disable automatic updates in W10, or a 3rd party W10 updater program that allows you to choose the updates you want to apply like you were able to do up till W10. The forced automatic updates means that MS can have code in EVERY update to check the telemetry settings and other spying, and if found to be disabled, re-enable them - and that would seem to be exactly what is happening right now, based on several cases of SU10 reporting that things it has previously turned off, have been turned back on again....... Aggressive Microsoft is not a good thing. MS were always pretty forward with their upgrade processes, but the W10 one is like grabbing the user's arm and forcing it behind their back, ramming them up against a brick wall and saying 'You WILL upgrade.' "You will be upgraded. Upgrading is compulsory." - The Cybermen... RANT END. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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