 Notice. New forum software under development. It's going to miss a few functions and look a bit ugly for a while, but I'm working on it full time now as the old forum was too unstable. Couple days, all good. If you notice any issues, please contact me. |
Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Another really old yank newbie.
  Page 2 of 2 |
|||||
| Author | Message | ||||
MicroBlocks Guru  Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
Prachuap Khirikhan. Ordering something from Microchip factory takes my orders from Bangkok, to Shenzen, to Singapore then Shenzen and then to Bangkok instead of the 25 km it is away. My main suppliers in Bangkok now have delivery service within 48 hours which i already used in Bangkok and even 300Km more far away the service is within the same timeframe. So i am not at a disadvantage for that. The 'Bangkok MakerSpace' had to be closed down because the contract for the building could not be extended and after 8 months looking for an alternative and most importantly with a longer contract to not get the same problem again it appeared impossible. Three year contract and then at the mercy of the owner is something i am not willing to do anymore as lots of energy (and money) goes into making a location suitable. I even tried to find a piece of empty land and build my own with sea containers, but also land was only available on one year contracts. Longer contracts are very uncommon and if they are available then it is often a very expensive location. I think i can rent something cheaper in the center of Paris or New York as Bangkok is really expensive when it also has to be on a reasonable location. So i am trying again in Prachuap where renting is much more easy, and even buying becomes a possibility. So moving from Phrakanong: 
to Prachuap: 
Is not too bad. 
Microblocks. Build with logic. |
||||
lew247 Guru Joined: 23/12/2015 Location: United KingdomPosts: 1676 |
WOW Jean, that new place looks amazing, really beautiful |
||||
| bigfix Senior Member  Joined: 20/02/2014 Location: AustriaPosts: 124 |
Paul, I live close to Vienna at about 170m altitude Weather differs a lot over time - generally getting warmer the last years But we had years with -20 Centigrade for a full week Now we have summers with + 35 every day for quite a few weeks So cooling becomes equally important My house is rather massive double shell brick with good insulation in between The heated floors are about 250 sqm with 7-10cm of concrete & natural stone I need about 6-8kW of heat at -20 degrees The heatpump delivers 11kW - consumes 2kw + 1kW for the waterpump (This 1kW is a sore point, I will reduce this to less than 250W soon) I have 13kWP PV panels - but in winter they hardly supply any energy - high fog... I use a 500l water buffer - which is nothing compared to the "buffering" of the heated floor (guesstimate is equal to 3000+ liters) Groundwater starts with 12 degree in fall, going down to 8 degrees in spring Supply is limitless - I am on top of the larges groundwaterlake in central europe... My challenge is hardness & high gypsum content in the groundwater - this blocks tiny heat exchangers in a few years So I use a cleanable dual heat exchanger from groundwater to an intermediate antifreeze flow, which goes through the actual heatpump (Ochsner, local brand) I also use a small pool heatexchanger, just for cooling in summer 
I designed and built all this myself - so I take all the blame ... Right now it uses only the bare bone controller in the heat pump I do not even have a thermostat connected inside - and it just works! But enough for now - to much piping in an electronics forum ! cheers Guenter PS - sorry no St Bernhards dog, just a rather furry cat... \ |
||||
| HankR Senior Member Joined: 02/01/2015 Location: United StatesPosts: 209 |
Guenter, What is the average or typical seasonal electric energy consumption of your entire heat pump system? What is the average annual PV electric energy production? Hank |
||||
| Paul_L Guru Joined: 03/03/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 769 |
MicroBlocks, That 7000 ft. airstrip in Prachuap was an authorized emergency strip for Pan Am. I visited there 40 years ago. It's breathtakingly beautiful. Here in New York we forget how easy it is to get parts and how difficult it can be in other parts of the world. But sometimes it's the same as Bangkok. I'm located about 4 miles from the IBM 300 mm microprocessor fab in East Fishkill NY, but if I want to buy an X-box it has to go to China, Thailand, Indonesia and back here first. Paul_L |
||||
| paceman Guru Joined: 07/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1328 |
Wow, what is it with this world. I can understand squillions of dollars squirting electronically back and forward across the globe to make 0.00001% profit each time, but to shuffle hard goods the same way seems crazy. We'll probably have coal shut down to help global warming just in time to find the friction developed by postal shuffling taking the temperature back up again! The same thing happens with ordinary groceries over here. My wife came home from a Melbourne supermarket the other day and the asparagus bunch had a sticker on it saying 'Product of Mexico' 
@MicroBlocks Jean I love your new location, what took you so long to move! We had a holiday several years ago around Ao Nang then Phi Phi Is. It was gorgeous - I've always intended to go back again, if I do I'll look you up. Good luck with everything there - looks like you could just lie back on the beach and ignore the world from here on. Greg |
||||
| MicroBlocks Guru Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
@Greg, We visited it many times before. We now turn it around and visit Bangkok sometimes. The kids went to school in Bangkok so we waited until they moved from primary to high school. I am also not setup good enough to start retiring, still need to make some money to pay the bills and save some for later. Ao nang and Phi Phi is totally destroyed by the overwhelming amounts of tourists (mainly from China), who all want to go snorkeling, diving etc. So there are no more fishes to be seen. Prachuap is less convenient to reach, 3-4 hours by car from Bangkok, 5-6 hours by train, no civilian airport. It is a bit out of the path most take so still has its charme and a super nice beach that is, i must say fortunate to be on military grounds. The upkeep is excellent and visiting is easy and encouraged. Microblocks. Build with logic. |
||||
| Paul_L Guru Joined: 03/03/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 769 |
Guenter, Our houses are very similar. The heated part of my house is about 3600 sq ft, yours is about 2700 sq ft, our winter temps average 20°F night to 35°F day, yours are about the same, our ground water is 61°F fall and 41°F spring, yours has less variation at 54°F and 46°F, my water buffer is 110 gal, yours is 126, your altitude is 544 ft mine is 330 ft. Of course you have 3 to 4 inch thick concrete floors while I have 2 inch x 12 inch fir joists then 3/4 inch plywood and 1 inch oak flooring. Photovoltaic cells would be of no use here since I am surrounded by 40 foot oat and beech trees. It sounds like you might be drawing water from the Neusiedler See which has high mineral content. (A Pan Am Captain I knew, Waldo Hoffman, retired to Podersdorf Am See 30 years ago.) With your water source you will develop heavy coatings of mineral deposits which can best be removed with phosphoric or muriatic acid. I also notice, from the picture, that you used a lot of steel pipe in your system which doesn't help the corrosion problem at all. Perhaps the best heat exchanger for your conditions would be a non-pressurized fiberglass tank with suspended coils of copper tubing carrying the Freon directly. You could build a coating of ice on the tubing which would increase your heat storage. My ground loop is entirely closed loop consisting of 6000 feet (1800 meters) of 3/4 inch HDPE pipe, 600 feet (180 meters) of 2 inch HDPE pipe and a stainless steel plate type heat exchanger which circulates 200 gallons (750 liters) of glycol antifreeze and water filtered by reverse osmosis. I filled it in 2011 and it has only needed about 5 gallons of additional water since then. Naturally, I have no corrosion or precipitation problems. My system would probably work better with ice building open tub heat exchangers. The ice would absorb a lot of heat due to the enthalpy of fusion, (334J/g or 144 Btu/lb), which would greatly exceed the effective heat storage capacity of my 120 gal tank. Right now I think that a program written for the minimite+ would be the best way to control this thing. Geoff Graham posted an extremely impressive video demonstrating the extensions he made to MMBasic to utilize a touch screen. I have to figure out where to buy the parts shown in that video in the U.S., how to mount one unit permanently in a wall, how to make a second portable unit, how to implement an RF link between them, and then I have to write the programs for them. Before that I have to figure out how to post files on this site. I uploaded a jpg file to the site yesterday but then I couldn't stick it into my post. It just disappeared. How do you get a picture or text file to appear in a post? And, for cryin out loud, you're Austrian, you're supposed to have a St. Bernard! I'm a Polak from NY and I have one! You posted a picture of pipes. MicroBlocks showed us Bangkok and Prachuap. I want to post a picture of a St. Bernard! Isn't that what we're supposed to post in a Microcontroller forum? Paul |
||||
| Paul_L Guru Joined: 03/03/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 769 |
Hi Hank, I turned my geothermal system on in 2012. I 2011 I burned 2414 gallons of #2 fuel oil at a cost of $9294 ($3.85/gal.) and 17080 Kwh of electric power at a cost of $2220 ($0.13/Kwh). In 2013 I burned 215 gallons of #2 fuel oil at a cost of $871 ($4.05/gal.) and 18000 Kwh of electric power at a cost of $2880 ($0.16/Kwh). That sounds really weird doesn't it. 17080 Kwh without geothermal and 18000 Kwh with! No, the winters were not drastically different. It was not a lot colder in 2011. In 2011 I cooled the house in the summer with a very inefficient (6 Btu/Watt) 1973 vintage central air conditioning system. I heated it with an oil boiler with a 3/4 Hp in-shot oil burner. In 2013 I heated and cooled with an extremely efficient heat pump. In cooling mode this thing pumps about 22 Btu/Watt, in heating mode it averages 13 Btu/Watt. The total fuel cost went from $11,514 in 2011 to $3,751 in 2012 for a savings of $7,763 for the year. My electric company is Central Hudson which is does not have particularly low prices for electric power. Niagra-Mohawk sells electricity for one third what we pay with all their hydroelectric generation, but they are 400 miles northwest of us. If I lived up there I would not have bothered to dig that giant hole. It cost a little under $60,000 to install this thing! I see that you're in Massachusetts. Send me a PM if you want to talk or get together. Paul_L |
||||
| bigfix Senior Member Joined: 20/02/2014 Location: AustriaPosts: 124 |
Hank, I digged up the data My PV system consists of 10kWP 30 degree slope south and 3kWP vertical west oriented The west part is contributing rather little - I hoped for more... 2014 I had 11995 kWh 2015 I had 12460 kWh Over the year it differs a lot - on the best days I get 75kWh, worst is 1.5kWh... Dec was 381 kWh vs June was 1639kWh My heating system shares a power submeter with an airbased waterheater heatpump, a cooling pump in summer and the house ventilation system => 8700kWh Based on hours of operation I estimate that floorheating alone used 5000kWh I have a heat energy meter installed in my floor heating This showed 18871 kWh delivered into the floor in the last season Paul, I am mostly decoupled from Neusiedler See - I think it is a different flow This lake has a strange mix of minerals - but no Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) Gypsum is a pain to remove, you need very special complex building chemicals Normal acids like HCl or PolySulfon do not help much... All my groundwater piping is corrosion resistant PVC, PE, V4A Stainless Steel and brass/bronce Only the brown pipes are plain steel - but groundwater does not touch them There are very few St Bernhards in Austria - they all live in Switzerland ! I know only one St Bernhard here - a really humongous dog - I am afraid if he shakes his head we get a flood warning :-) For the picture I just used the "Image Upload" Button and the picture got in But back to Electronics now: What I want to achieve is a longterm solution, which is mostly self sufficient If I want to change some code in 10 years, I do not want to recreate a complex IDE MicroMite enables this - you only need a VT100 & serial IF BUT - I miss a few important features Mostly integrated networking & a web based interface The ESP8266 enables this to some extent, but is not nearly as easy & longterm safe I would also prefer wired ethernet - best with POE My preferred solution would be a MicroMite with a local display mirrored to a webpage The webpage and the local screen should be configurable in Basic code I would also like some networkwide variables - similar to the MQTT protocol i.e. have weatherdata or presence status easily available to multiple nodes I can also send global or group commands But MQTT needs a central server like a RPi, running Mosquitto ESP8266 Basic has a new Multicast function - this could allow a decentral approach For now I will most likely use a compromise - I still have to make some choices - hook up a cheapo W10 Tablet as local display, webserver & MQTT client - use an ESP8266 as WEB IF and MQTT Client with a MicroMite or Nextion Display I am afraid those hybrid solutions are not really longterm maintainable Right now I will experiment with them and hope for something better to show up... cheers Guenter |
||||
| paceman Guru Joined: 07/10/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1328 |
For a wired network solution there's the Wiznet W5100 option - they're very cheap modules. Do a forum search for Wiznet and quite a few links come up; there's a library there written by 'yobortsa' and I know BigMik linked a server program too. Greg |
||||
| Paul_L Guru Joined: 03/03/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 769 |
Guenter, This is the way I did it. Everything is either copper, HDPE or stainless steel. 
Except for Brunhilda. She is biological. 
Paul |
||||
bigmik Guru Joined: 20/06/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2870 |
Hi Paul, All, Pardon my Aussie ignorance but what exactly is all of that stuff? Heat exchanger... OK, I understand that but what do you do with it and where does it take heat from and where does it put it or vice versa as fits the system? I suspect it is because you are in a cold climate and need to heat your house but that is as far as I can work out.. Looks impressive none the less and it is obviously controllable. Kind Regards, Mick Mick's uMite Stuff can be found >>> HERE (Kindly hosted by Dontronics) <<< |
||||
| Paul_L Guru Joined: 03/03/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 769 |
Just in case you guys are wondering what the yard heat exchanger looks like here are some pictures from six years ago. We dug a 100 foot x 60 foot x 7 foot deep hole which promptly began to fill with water from subterranean springs. The John Deere excavator began to sink into the mud so we got it out of there. My full size Chevy Suburban gives some idea of the size of the hole. 
Then we cut some drainage ditches with the mini excavator you can see in the distance on the right and waited for the water to drain. The John Deere excavator is on top of the pile of dirt on the left. 
Then we unrolled 6000 ft of 3/4 inch HDPE pipe and thermally fused it to a 2 inch manifold. 
Finally we ran the 2 inch manifold 200 feet into the basement. The large 2 foot diameter pipe standing vertically in the distance gives permanent access to the air vents at the uphill end of the manifolds. 
Finally we figured that we'd better fill the hole back up and try to get the grass to grow. You can just see the 2 foot diameter vent access pipe sticking out of the ground in the distance. 
That's about all there was to it. Paul |
||||
TassyJim Guru Joined: 07/08/2011 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5913 |
Life is so much easier for us Mick, if it's too hot on the veranda, go to the one on the other side of the house.. When we do use heat pumps, we use air sourced. That's a normal heat-pump/air conditioner to you Mick. In the colder climates the air is too cold but the ground can stay warm enough (relatively) so they bury miles of pipe in the ground and suck what little heat there is out of it. Sounds like a lot of work to me. Jim VK7JH MMedit  MMBasic Help |
||||
| Paul_L Guru Joined: 03/03/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 769 |
Hi Mick, All that stuff in the pictures is a heat exchanger which pumps heat out of the ground in the winter and into the ground in the summer. Our hottest days in August (summer here) usually reach about 100°F/38°C and our coldest nights in January (winter) are about -5°F/-21°C. The ground temperature at a depth of 7ft/2m reaches a high of 61°F/16°C in September and a low of 41°F/5°C in March. In January we pump 25 gal/min or 95 L/min of a water/antifreeze mixture out into the yard heat exchanger at 29°F/-2°C and it returns at about 35°F/+2°C. That's a heat gain of 21.1 kWh/hr (200 pounds/min x 6°F = 1200 Btu/min = 72,100 Btu/hr). But the heat is useless for heating a house because it is stored in water at +2°C. So we run that water through a plate type heat exchanger which transfers the heat to low pressure Freon at 25°F/-4°C, then we run the Freon through a compressor which produces high pressure Freon at 140°F/60°C which goes to another plate type heat exchanger which transfers the heat to water at about 130°F/54°C which then heats the house. In August 45°F/7°C water picks up heat from the house and transfers the heat to low pressure Freon which goes through the compressor becoming high pressure Freon which transfers its heat to water which goes to the yard at 110°F/43°C and returns from the yard at 80°F/27°C. In other words in the winter we pump heat from the 41°F/5°C ground uphill into the 75°F/24°C house, in the summer we pump heat from the 75°F/24°C house into the 61°F/16°C ground. In 2011 I burned 2414 gallons of #2 fuel oil at a cost of $9294 ($3.85/gal.) and 17080 Kwh of electric power at a cost of $2220 ($0.13/Kwh) for a total of $11,514. In 2013 I burned 215 gallons of #2 fuel oil at a cost of $871 ($4.05/gal.) and 18000 Kwh of electric power at a cost of $2880 ($0.16/Kwh) for a total of $3,751. This thing saved me about $7,800 in 2013. Now I have to build a better mousetrap to control this gadget. Paul |
||||
| Paul_L Guru Joined: 03/03/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 769 |
Here's the label showing the electrical ratings for this gadget. Note that the Freon compressor has a full load current rating of 41.1 A at 230 volts. That's 9,453 watts or 12.67 Hp. Its locked rotor current rating is 148 A. That's a beefy compressor. 
This view looks vertically down showing the two insulated stainless steel flat plate heat exchangers on the left and the compressor on the lower right. 
This is a horizontal view showing the compressor on the left with the thermal expansion valve to it's immediate right and the heat exchangers on the far right. 
Paul |
||||
Herry Senior Member Joined: 31/05/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 261 |
Up in the attic I have three Model III's with 2 double sided floppies in each for a massive 1.5MB of disk storage! I also have a Model II with a separate drive bay for 4 each 8" floppies with an astounding 4MB of disk storage! The last time I checked they still worked! Paul Ah, the old Model II. I made my living for a while programming in BASIC with one... Senior?! Whatever it says, I'm a complete and utter beginner... |
||||
| Paul_L Guru Joined: 03/03/2016 Location: United StatesPosts: 769 |
Hi Harry, I didn't like the Model II with the separate drive bay and keyboard. Plugging it together made it more complicated. I wrote programs and leased Model IIIs to my wife's NY CPA firm for several years. The III was one cabinet with the keyboard, monitor and disks self contained. It was less troublesome than the II. Paul |
||||
| Page 2 of 2 |
|||||
 Print this page |
