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Forum Index : Microcontroller and PC projects : Sprint Layout questions
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Herry Senior Member  Joined: 31/05/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 261 |
Steep on the learning curve with Sprit Layout here. As the Sprint Layout support forum is in German and there is currently no English one, it occurs to me that others too may be on this curve, while lucky or clued up others can give the answers. For my part, if I stumble on answer to nay query I post, I shall reply to myself for the benefit of others. So let's kick off: Since circuit boards are made to a 1/10 grid (AFAIK, and apparently project boards and Vero boards are), I would like to change units from mm to inches. But the choice (under Options > General settings > Base unit) is mm or Zoll (which happens to be 1 and 1/32 of an inch (1/1000 of that here called a mil). When sending eg Gerber files are they not expecting exact 1/10 of an inch to accommodate components like DIL28? Senior?! Whatever it says, I'm a complete and utter beginner... |
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Grogster Admin Group  Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9585 |
You can set the grid to anything you like - the PCB house don't care - the grid is only to help you ensure that you design the layout to fit the parts. You could design a staggered DIL that would not fit the DIL part, but the PCB house would produce the PCB without hesitation. Anyway, i've had a look around in the grid settings and you are right - they only allow mm, uM or mil - no inches. Being Australian, you should be metric anyway.  
Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Herry Senior Member Joined: 31/05/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 261 |
Crikey, that was fast. I'm metric in everything else, but Components like DIL have connections at 1/10 inch do they not (fitting project boards and Vero boards? In which case if my Gerber file is not to those intervals surely the components would not fit? Senior?! Whatever it says, I'm a complete and utter beginner... |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9585 |
Yes, they can use either metric or imperial. I have always used a metric grid, but our chums in the likes of America will use an imperial grid. The PCB houses don't care either way - a gerber is a gerber - it's up to YOU to ensure you have the footprint correct. Metric spacing is 2.54mm between pins for the likes of DIL, so if you are placing a DIL chip, adjust the grid to 2.54mm, and you will find that the pads on the DIL footprint perfectly aligns with the grid. 
I'm off to a job now, so this will be the last reply for a few hours. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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MicroBlocks Guru  Joined: 12/05/2012 Location: ThailandPosts: 2209 |
mil is based on inches. Pins from a DIP are 100 mil apart. 1 mil is 1/1000 of an inch. 100 mil is 1/10 of an inch or 2.54 millimeter. Most PCB houses specify minimum trace distance and width also in mil. 6 mil is common. I use a 100mil grid to space large parts (through hole) and then switch to 25 mil grid for smd parts. Then switch to a 12.5mil grid when drawing traces. I use milimeters to draw board dimension and space parts from the edges from the board. Switching between all of those grids is common when designing a pcb as lots of parts are dimensioned in millimeters but have pin pitch in mils. Microblocks. Build with logic. |
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| Herry Senior Member Joined: 31/05/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 261 |
That's what I thought but as a German measurement apparently not, by 1/32 Senior?! Whatever it says, I'm a complete and utter beginner... |
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twofingers Guru Joined: 02/06/2014 Location: GermanyPosts: 1566 |
A "Zoll" (25,4mm) IS a inch! I think they, the ABACOM people, forgot to translate ... somehow. causality ≠correlation ≠coincidence |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9585 |
Yeah, I do get the occasional message in German. I can read some basic German though, so that does help a little. Usually, if SL throws an error of some sort, the error message will be in German. This does not happen often though. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Herry Senior Member Joined: 31/05/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 261 |
That's not the source of my info. It's from Wikipedia, which I have never yet known to be wrong, even about some very rare unusual information that I happen to have direct knowledge of. But I'd certainly be relieved if you are right. Senior?! Whatever it says, I'm a complete and utter beginner... |
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| twofingers Guru Joined: 02/06/2014 Location: GermanyPosts: 1566 |
You must have misunderstood something or the Wikipedia article is wrong. Can you show us the link to that Wikipedia article, please? causality ≠correlation ≠coincidence |
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atmega8 Guru Joined: 19/11/2013 Location: GermanyPosts: 724 |
I can confirm, one zoll is one inch !!!! I also use the software, pretty easy and straigth forward. Atmega from Germany |
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| Herry Senior Member Joined: 31/05/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 261 |
Here is the reference. It was not from Wikipedia (my error) http://www.convertunits.com/from/zoll/to/inches As you can see, here it is not exactly one inch! However, I did find Wikipedia and *that* reference *did* confirm what you are all saying, for which I am profoundly relieved! Senior?! Whatever it says, I'm a complete and utter beginner... |
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| atmega8 Guru Joined: 19/11/2013 Location: GermanyPosts: 724 |
There is in fact a difference between UK and USA compared to Germany. Since 1956 UK is 2,54, but not before. imperial inch Vereinigtes Königreich 1956 0,025 4 254⁄10000 m USA is different, the online calculator seems to use this factor ( not validated) survey inch USA 1866 0,025 400 051 HOWEVER, YOU ARE SAFE! |
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| Herry Senior Member Joined: 31/05/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 261 |
Ah! So that's it! Senior?! Whatever it says, I'm a complete and utter beginner... |
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| matherp Guru Joined: 11/12/2012 Location: United KingdomPosts: 10180 |
All non-metric countries use the same conversion agreed in 1959 Anything other than 25.400000000000... is just wrong, probably some sort of rounding error. |
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| Herry Senior Member Joined: 31/05/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 261 |
OK. Going well. Decided that .2 mil was adequate track width for Micromite circuits (free trial track size was set at .6 (1.9 Amps!)). Just checking my understanding. C1 is the same side as silkscreen which is the same side as components? So any tracks on that side that connect to components (eg the 'mite!) will need vias on those pads, as soldering will be on the C2 side? Senior?! Whatever it says, I'm a complete and utter beginner... |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9585 |
If you are doing a single-sided board, then C2 is your copper side, and there is no tracking at all on C1. S1 and S2 can be whatever you want them to be. In other words, C1 is top copper, S1 is top silkscreen, C2 is bottom copper, S2 is bottom silkscreen. You design as though the board was transparent and you were looking through it from top-to-bottom. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Herry Senior Member Joined: 31/05/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 261 |
Yes, got that. But my circuitry requires some crossing tracks so double sided is the way to go. In which case, was I on the right track just now? Senior?! Whatever it says, I'm a complete and utter beginner... |
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| Grogster Admin Group Joined: 31/12/2012 Location: New ZealandPosts: 9585 |
Yep, if you don't want to solder on the top, run your tracks and vias, then click on the SOLDER MASK button on the left-side menu, then click each of the vias to remove the soldermask from the vias. That way, they won't be solderable from the top copper, if you see what I mean. I can put up a photo if you want to see what I am getting at. Remember that when you place your pads as vias, press F12 to change the pad to a via. If you forget to do this, just click the pad, then press F12. Once you have pressed F12, any new pads you place will be vias by default. Smoke makes things work. When the smoke gets out, it stops! |
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| Herry Senior Member Joined: 31/05/2014 Location: AustraliaPosts: 261 |
Your first para over my head a bit. You wouldn't want to solder on the components side surely, eg *under* the chip! (?), which is the reason for a via if a connecting track happens to be on the top (components) side. I obviously would start using tracks on the other side to the components until I must have a crossing track and then I would put it on top (and use vias to connect to the components pins). That what I was getting at. BTW, thanks for your help on this. Much appreciated. Senior?! Whatever it says, I'm a complete and utter beginner... |
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