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Forum Index : Windmills : Question 60mm to 80mm F&P
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JimBo911 Senior Member  Joined: 26/03/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 262 |
Some of you gents (mill heads) are familiar with my mill and some are not, if not see (JimBo911 Progress Photos) Of course now that my mill has been up and running for about four months and has survived some big blows I now feel the need for MOREPOWER. Putting aside thoughts (dreams) of building an AxFx/neo alternater I have decided too try upgrading my existing mill. At present my stator is an F&P 36 finger 60dc-7s-2p in delta, neo's mags, caps voltage doubler, 48 volt, battery system. I have managed a max of or close to 700 watts which I might add is seldom seen. Besides the obvious or raising the mill height for cleaner wind (which is not going to happen) would an improved or different stator say with larger diameter wire windings help to improve output and or performance? Jim |
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fillm Guru  Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
Simple a Dual stator will double your output PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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| JimBo911 Senior Member Joined: 26/03/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 262 |
Phill Allways good to hear from you. Hope all is well with you and family. I was going to e mail you and ask about shop drawings for your/Gordon AxAf neo alternator in a possiable attempt to build my own. At this time I was hoping to keep it a little simpler than dual stator set up. I am not useing F&P shaft or rotors. Jim |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Bugger -your neo's are set up for 36poles stators so this isnt going to be easy! you need an 80S wired for 7 Phases to suit your beautifully crafted neo hub ---if it were a 60S 42pole if not a simple upgrade to a 100S would crack out over 1KW with neos. Apparently the 80S in 7 phase works well for 48V systems, I know a guy out here in Aus who claims a max of 600W with no neo's into 48V. This is going to complicate the voltage doubler and as for cap values, i'd be guessing at 100uF a piece and lots of them! Perhaps Gordon can offer some advice here. I'd be more than happy to send you an 80S for $0 (as I like your work) but the postage is a killer. Last time I sent a kit, magnet hub, shaft and rotor and stator it was $160 for about 8KG. I'm guessing here so may be dearer. but the stator alone weighs 3KG so postage would be $60 AUD so call it $50USD. If you want one send me your address and I'll drop one in the post for you and send you a paypal invoice for the freight later (I trust you) Luck favours the well prepared |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
OK Another solution that doesnt involve $$ in caps, re-wiring, more wires down the pole etc etc etc etc. Stock stators have on each finger 100S has 44 turns 80S has 115 turns 60S has 170 turns 60DC has ?? turns your 60S is wired as 7x2C thus each coil pair has 340 turns to make 48V + and makes 700W -not good considering it has NEO's a 100 S would have 44x14 = 616 turns to make 48V+ now cutin here in delta 48V is up there at 200+rpm but we know that they will make 800+W with no Neos. Gordon has got 890W out of his -albeit running real hard. Here's my theory strip the wire off what you have. this will give you enough wire to go three in hand and 55 turns each finger. thus cutin will be lower than a 100S wire area will be larger than a 100S 0.3x0.3 x 3.141 x 3in hand =.848mm2 wire area. .5x 0.5 x 3.141 x 1 Stock 100S = 0.785mm2 wire area What's the cutin speed on the mill now? OZ tules has posted a spiel on my theory on this one before and its all about amp turns which I dont understand very well. IMSMOOTH added a dozen or so turns to his 100S and got 20% more grunt out of it (with neo hub or normal hub i cant recall) My theory is here. (and doesnt hold true because of other factors but here it is anyway) with three in hand you have a larger wire diameter than a 100S stock (+5%) you will be squeezing in more turns than the stock 100 s 55v44 (+25%) you have less fingers than the 42 pole 36/44 (-19%) so +30%-19% = 11% gain over a stock 100S which is good for 800W in delta. -thus theoretically good for 890W with Neos should make heaps more. -like double that BUT who knows. I've simplified it here and there is lots more to the whys and hows I dont understand but if i were in your position this is what I'd do before spending any money. Wire simply for 1X14C stock This should also give you some practise winding coils for the AXFX project coming soon, doesnt cost you a single cent and no harm will be done. Luck favours the well prepared |
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| JimBo911 Senior Member Joined: 26/03/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 262 |
Hi Karl Wooooo looks as if you put some time and thought into my situation I really do appreciate that. It's easy to see your much more in tune with stator stats than I. I asked and you replied. To get going I purchased my 60dc from EcoInnovation cause around here F&P's are slim pickens I didn't know and still don't know much about the multitude of different stators and re connections. Instead of unwinding my existing stator I think acquiring another 36 finger and practicing on it would be a better way too go for me. I don't know the number of turns that my 60dc has but I will try to find out. Your offer to send me an 80S is very much appreciated but my rotor is set up for a 36 finger. Hell if I had more neo's I would just cut another rotor and be done with it. I feel there is room for improvement by altering the stator or at least it's worth trying. How's it going with your move, must be killer waiting to fly your new duel stator mill?? Jim |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Getting closer, my house inspection Saturday (for sale or rent) trip to far scheduled for Wednesday next week, keeping me up at night thinking about it! I have never seen a 60DC so unfortunately I cant send you one of those, I did look today at my suppliers and found another 100S ! worth every cent of the $20 I paid for it! 80S as 7 phase delta would work well (with your 36 pole neo rotor) as the Neo's and caps would pick up the slack (high cutin) and should do well. 7 phase delta is a nightmare rewire though, search the forum, post was made by Gill (RIP). I think the rewire with less turns using three in hand is the go (as opposed to spending a fortune with ecinnovation) but hang 5 until the guys that really know their stuff chime in. ie Gordon and OZ! BTW 7S2P that you have......doesnt work for a 36 pole gen. You probably have 2X6C I'd be thinking you want 3X4C for high speed 48V. If it's that simple you could easily get 1/3 more grunt and wouldn't involve stripping it down and is easily reversible! Karl Luck favours the well prepared |
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