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Forum Index : Windmills : Loads on 24v

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Thai
Newbie

Joined: 22/05/2018
Location: United States
Posts: 30
Posted: 02:32pm 24 May 2018
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I'm new to the smart drive world and hoping to figureout how to fix my load force. It seems the the grid tie I have connected to the smart drive turbine is too heavy which it's only able to spin at a very very low rpm. I tried researching on how to fix and I came across capacitors. I don't know much about them but seems slot of people are using the. Can someone tell me if this is the case, how does it work. I've seen one video where the guy uses just one capacitor 2200uf but I wasn't able to see the volts. Anyone out the have any diagram that I can use. Any thing will help because I've been working day and night trying to figure this out
 
DaveP68

Senior Member

Joined: 25/11/2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 292
Posted: 03:30am 25 May 2018
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Hi Thai

Can offer some assistance.

Need to know a bit more about your set up. What type of stator and rotor cap combination are you using? Is the stator a 42 or 36 pole version.

Can you supply the specifications of the grid tie? One important factor is how much power is the grid tie trying to take at start up (cut in)?

Capacitors can help out but need to be set up correctly.

David
There are realities if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending time on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow! The Dunning Kruger Effect :)
 
Thai
Newbie

Joined: 22/05/2018
Location: United States
Posts: 30
Posted: 02:19pm 25 May 2018
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I have the fp640 fisher and paykel from eBay. I'm trying to go 24v and my grid tie inverter is 1000watt 22-60volt new generation sunG mppt.i have it going into a 3phase 100amp rectifier and the unto a 60amp fuse. From the fuse it's into the gti which is 110v ac out. I appreciate the help if possible. My turbine blades are 62" total length Missouri and wind falcon blades. It has an adaptor arbor 3/4 down to 17mm shaft.
 
Thai
Newbie

Joined: 22/05/2018
Location: United States
Posts: 30
Posted: 02:24pm 25 May 2018
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This is there advertising spec sheet





Permanent Magnet Alternator Wind Turbine Generator

Our most powerful and versatile PMA. Perfect for charging 12, 24 and 48 volt applications.
Parts included: Rotor, Stator & Custom Hub Assembly
Rotor & Stator produced by Fisher & Paykel.
Center hole of Rotor has been machined to 3/4" to fit custom hub assembly.
Unique robust Hub Assembly produced by WindGenKits supports a massive 3/4” steel spindle.
Spindle threads are 3/4-16. Shaft length is 1-1/4".
The high efficiency of this alternator is from the radial design, iron core stator with a close air gap from the 36 pole permanent magnet rotor. Zero cogging.
4 mounting holes for 3/8-16 bolts. Mounting hole pattern is 4 bolt on a 3.25” diameter circle. Mounts to our standard mounting bracket. See Figure 1 diagram.
Output is 3 phase AC power at a voltage of .608V per RPM. The output voltage is easily calculated with this equation: V = .608 X RPM. For example, at 10 RPM it will produce 6.08 volts and at 100 RPM it produces 60.8 volts.
The Stator is rated at 640 watts continuous as a motor.
The power output depends on the power input and we have easily pushed these to 1000 watts with enough wind and turbine size.
Zero cogging.
The stator configuration is 27 poles, 3 phase, WYE connected.
The magnet size is 24mm x 36mm x 6mm thick. There are 36 magnets.
If PMA will be outdoors we recommend spraying with a clear varnish for protection against rust and corrosion.
See the Fisher & Paykel spec sheets in this listing.
This listing is for the PMA only. However, we show a few photos of different mounting options for a HAWT and VAWT using mounting brackets available from WindGenKits. Check out our other listings for mounting brackets, VAWT wings and HAWT kits for this alternator.



Watch video below for PMA demonstration!

FP640 - YouTubeThis Windgenkits video will open in a new window

 
Thai
Newbie

Joined: 22/05/2018
Location: United States
Posts: 30
Posted: 09:06pm 25 May 2018
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I was doing research and some of the other fp turbine are using 2.5meter blades. That 2 x the size of mine. Could it also be my blades needs to be much larger in diameter?
 
Gizmo

Admin Group

Joined: 05/06/2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 4823
Posted: 10:28pm 25 May 2018
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So the diameter is about 1.2M? Thats very small for a F&P wind turbine, unless you have very very strong winds.

See https://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/articles/SweptAreaofHAWT.asp

and
https://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/articles/WindPower.asp
People say 2020 is a terrible year, with the bush fires, COVID 19, and riots. But I see it as the year we woke up to ourselves.

JAQ Software
 
Thai
Newbie

Joined: 22/05/2018
Location: United States
Posts: 30
Posted: 01:10am 26 May 2018
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It says on the spec sheet that 36-72" in diameter. So I'm guessing they meet each blade must be that length not the diameter.
 
Gizmo

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Joined: 05/06/2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 4823
Posted: 06:45am 26 May 2018
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Well, a F&P is a washing machine motor, not a windmill alternator, so you can ignore that spec sheet.

72 inch, or 1800mm, diameter is a absolute minimum, I would not go that small unless I was living on the coast with strong winds. Most of our F&P based wind turbines are 2 to 3 meters diameter.

Glenn
People say 2020 is a terrible year, with the bush fires, COVID 19, and riots. But I see it as the year we woke up to ourselves.

JAQ Software
 
Thai
Newbie

Joined: 22/05/2018
Location: United States
Posts: 30
Posted: 04:53pm 26 May 2018
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You guys think a 79 inch blade will work? That's Te biggest blades I can find on eBay. I'm not worried about prices. Ill pay anything to see it work properly
 
Thai
Newbie

Joined: 22/05/2018
Location: United States
Posts: 30
Posted: 04:57pm 26 May 2018
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The 62 inch blades barely started it up. Shouldn't it at least spin it? Can you guy tell me without a load how hard it is to spin. How hard to spin with load. Scale from 1-10 please. I'm afraid it's my grid tie which causes the load to be mismatch. Force is about an 8.5 to 9.5 scale if I I had to guess with load
 
DaveP68

Senior Member

Joined: 25/11/2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 292
Posted: 03:00am 29 May 2018
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  Thai said   The stator configuration is 27 poles, 3 phase, WYE connected. The magnet size is 24mm x 36mm x 6mm thick. There are 36 magnets.


Thanks for supplying the specifications of the stator, I didn't realise it was an F&P 640 which I'm not familiar with.

From what I can work out by looking at photos, these stators have aluminium windings which is a problem. The Aluminium stators 27 or 36 pole versions aren't as efficient as the copper version due to their higher resistance. Also rewiring stators is generally done using solder that often contains tin and may cause an electrochemical corrosion problem due to its galvanic potential.

The other factor which could create another problem is the stators pole count of 27. This only allows 3 star wiring combinations, 1x9C, 3x3C and 9x1C. Creating a unique challenge with the Volts/RPM between steps being higher than if it was a 36 pole version.

Example factory standard star 1x9C mode and running at 100 RPM there will be 86 VDC on the output of the 3 phase rectifier with no load.

When rewired to 3x3C then the voltage drops to 28.7 VDC and for 9x1C ot goes down to 9.6 VDC.

They can be used in Delta mode with the same 3 different wiring configurations putting out 50 VDC 1x9C, 16.7 VDC 3x3C and 5.6 VDC for 9x1C (no load).

Another important factor for choosing which way to rewire the stator to operate correctly with the GTI is the Tip Speed ratio of the blades and their diameter.

What blade set up do you plan to use?
There are realities if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending time on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow! The Dunning Kruger Effect :)
 
Thai
Newbie

Joined: 22/05/2018
Location: United States
Posts: 30
Posted: 03:42am 29 May 2018
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79" blades. It's all I can find, unless I make some. Awe I didn't know these are aluminium coils. I wish I had this info when purchased. I would've return these back. I think these come wired already. It's every 3 poles to 3 phase. The cap that came with the unit is pretty cool looking though.
 
Thai
Newbie

Joined: 22/05/2018
Location: United States
Posts: 30
Posted: 03:45am 29 May 2018
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I looked back at the spec sheet. It says it's an iron stater coil
 
Thai
Newbie

Joined: 22/05/2018
Location: United States
Posts: 30
Posted: 03:56am 29 May 2018
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Hmm. I think I finally figured out the problem. I went back and check the settings on the sun 22-65v and there is a shortcut voltage adjustment. No idea what it is, but I adjust it to 35volts and unplugged the gti to reboot. Now its configured correctly and it spins pretty fast and easily now. I know there has been quit a few people having this problem. I hope this works for them too.
 
DaveP68

Senior Member

Joined: 25/11/2014
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 292
Posted: 07:59am 29 May 2018
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Good to hear that you are now getting the results you were after.

That is an "iron core" stator not iron coil, big difference in meaning.
There are realities if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending time on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow! The Dunning Kruger Effect :)
 
Thai
Newbie

Joined: 22/05/2018
Location: United States
Posts: 30
Posted: 02:49am 01 Jun 2018
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Thanks. Also I notice that I changed out the resistors awhile back. I replaced it with the original resistor that came with the system. It works magnificently well now. I'm so happy I can 😢
 
D.C.
Newbie

Joined: 23/03/2020
Location: United States
Posts: 4
Posted: 11:39pm 30 Mar 2020
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Thai,I have that same F@P-640 motor. It has no cogging but as soon as it is hooked up to a rectifier and battery the resistance to turn is to strong. I only need about 60 rpm to get 15 watts for a 12 volt battery out of it but it has to much resistance. Thai, what kind of electronics are you using that yours turns ok? I need to find a way to use this thing as it cost me $200. I don't have a lot of wind and thought something with no cogging would work. Such is not the case when it has a load on it.
 
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