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Forum Index : Windmills : wind turbine into a solar charge controller?

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rgormley
Senior Member

Joined: 22/02/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 228
Posted: 01:09pm 30 May 2020
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have a MPPT EP solar 4210RN feeding my 24V bank wit about 500W of solar
all happy and working
specs: 100V DC input 1000W at 24V (40AMP)


QUESTION: i have bought a 48v 500w 6 blade aliexpress cheap 500watt wind turbine.
Can i run the DC output into the solar charge controller (4210RN)
(in parallel with the solar panel input)via the wind turbines 3 phase bridge DC out

or should i keep the turbine on a separated input?

Thanks..

** oh and i will have a over voltage sense cct that activate a dump load on the ac side of the turbine if the volts get up to 28v on the bat bank (has time based hysteresis stop rapid cycling)
Edited 2020-05-30 23:18 by rgormley
 
brucedownunder2
Guru

Joined: 14/09/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1451
Posted: 10:22pm 30 May 2020
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Richard Gormley,,

 Now there's a blast from the past ---  not heard from you in many years, one of the old timers !!.. One of the pioneers in F&P neo and dual stators....

A big HELLO Richard..

Bruce
Bushboy
 
rgormley
Senior Member

Joined: 22/02/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 228
Posted: 09:57am 06 Jun 2020
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anyone have some feedback on my question?

thanks...
 
brucedownunder2
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Joined: 14/09/2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1451
Posted: 12:11am 07 Jun 2020
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Richard,

 Rear your post couple days ago ,no idea, apart from reading somewhere else that there are controllers that do both wind-bennies and an amount of solar.

Maybe try the same post in electronics,, someone in there has in the past posted lots on controllers and this poster sounds like he's the one you need to talk to ???.

Best of luck,

Bruce
Bushboy
 
Warpspeed
Guru

Joined: 09/08/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 3456
Posted: 02:45am 07 Jun 2020
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  rgormley said  anyone have some feedback on my question?
thanks...

Over a hundred views, and that suggests nobody here has tried it, or knows of anyone else that has tried it either successfully or unsuccessfully.

I myself have no idea, but if it was that simple it would have become a very popular solution by now, as mppt solar controllers are extremely common and relatively low cost.
I live in the suburbs, so wind power is just not possible for me here, so I have no real interest in pursuing wind power projects.

Thinking about it all, a solar panel responds instantly to a change in output loading, and software can exploit that by making small incremental changes, and then measuring the result, and making another change in a fairly rapid repeating sequence.

A wind machine may take several seconds to reach a new equilibrium rpm, after an electrical load change is made, assuming the wind speed is truly constant and steady. If its gusting, it may be all over the place.

Any feedback system needs to be slow enough to let a measured variable become stable again before making another change. If you try to correct too quickly, or by too much, the system can easily become unstable and begin to surge uncontrollably.

Its like adjusting the water temperature under the shower. You make a minute adjustment to either the hot tap or cold tap, and wait a few seconds to see how the temperature has changed before making another minute adjustment. Wildly spinning taps, will only result in screams !!!  It has to be a very gradual slow measured process.

A solar mppt expects an instant and stable response to any small change of the operating point, and gets it.

If you hook that up to a wind machine I think its very likely to behave very badly, although I have never tried to do it.

Control theory suggests that a feedback system for a wind machine is less than ideal, although a lot of people do it that way.

A feed forward system would be much better, where a fast responding anemometer measures wind speed, and the anemometer controls the loading on the main turbine directly via a lookup table.
For every small increment of wind speed above cut in, there will be an optimum rpm and optimum electrical loading, found through either real world testing, or perhaps by a very slow self learning algorithm.

A system like that would respond very quickly to changing wind conditions, and could never become unstable. At least that is how I would approach the problem.

I leave it up to the software boffins to teach a Nano how to do that.
Cheers,  Tony.
 
rgormley
Senior Member

Joined: 22/02/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 228
Posted: 02:58am 07 Jun 2020
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thanks tony for the feedback/info

i think you have also pointed out something that i did not think of,
the MPPT aspect of the solar controller is happy with input from the solar.

But if i also input the rapidly fluctuating dc from the wind turbine, then i would say the MPPT monitoring aspect will loose it`s mind and i will loose any gains from the solar..

hhhmmmm think i may just keep them separated.. (or get a separate turbine controller)

Cheers,
Richard
Edited 2020-06-07 12:59 by rgormley
 
Warpspeed
Guru

Joined: 09/08/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 3456
Posted: 03:05am 07 Jun 2020
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Sure, definitely best to keep them separate.

No problem with having more than one type of controller charging the same battery.
Cheers,  Tony.
 
Davo99
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Joined: 03/06/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 610
Posted: 03:43am 09 Jun 2020
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No Experience with Turbines at all but I have read of using solar controllers with them and the consensus was it does not work well.

The turbine is rarely really constant and the MPPT in the controller will vary the load trying to find the sweet spot which causes the turbine to slow down and speed up and basically see saw  resulting in an uneven output.

I read it is not so bad with bigger turbines with more inertia and in good wind that are far more stable but small turbines ( and what I read was to do with the Chinese types that don't really make near their rating anyway) were not a good match and did not work well.

I don't know if a PWM type would be better or not.

I would not put the turbine with the solar.
In my experience with solar, If you have unmatched arrays together, the more powerful array does all the work and the lesser ( voltage) array does nothing.  I can see the same with the turbine. If it's not within a certain output to the panels, you will get nothing out of it or at least highly Inefficient.

If you put it on it's own, it should put all it is generating to use and not be over tun by the panels or vice versa.
 
pollenface

Newbie

Joined: 01/09/2020
Location: Australia
Posts: 21
Posted: 12:25pm 15 Sep 2020
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I'm doing a similar thing in a different way.

I have the turbine in a 12v system (connected to 75ah car battery) with cheap-as PWM controller and am charging via a step-up on a vsr (voltage sensitive relay) connected to the mppt solar input @ 55v.

The turbine is just an ebay-special rated at 400w @ 43.2kph wind speed.

I have used AC-DC power supplies into mppt charge controllers before with no issues so I think my idea will work okay.

I also have a dump load in excess of 14.6v.

The step-up is connected in parallel to the solar array
200w wind @ 55v
800w solar @ 86v.

My solar controller is the Epever 4210AN (40a/100v) with a 24v bank.
Edited 2020-09-15 22:35 by pollenface
Off grid man caver
 
pollenface

Newbie

Joined: 01/09/2020
Location: Australia
Posts: 21
Posted: 11:04pm 27 Sep 2020
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Thinking more about this.

You can get MPPT wind turbine controllers (with dump load terminals).

I believe the issue with feeding power straight from a bridge rectifier is that when the MPPT solar controller disconnects the PV load it may cause the turbine to overspeed and damage itself.
Edited 2020-09-28 09:05 by pollenface
Off grid man caver
 
solarwind

Regular Member

Joined: 03/02/2008
Location: South Africa
Posts: 51
Posted: 09:14pm 03 Oct 2020
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A solar MPPT can not be used for controlling a wind turbine as a turbine needs a controller with a dump load to prevent over speeding of the turbine when charging of batteries should stop.
You don't have success until you've tried it!
 
pollenface

Newbie

Joined: 01/09/2020
Location: Australia
Posts: 21
Posted: 12:58pm 04 Nov 2020
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I ended up just buying a proper wind controller.
Off grid man caver
 
Orangish
Newbie

Joined: 24/11/2020
Location: Austria
Posts: 1
Posted: 10:36am 25 Nov 2020
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No experience with this but Ich kenne viele Mädchen, die solche Dinge tun und nur nach Zuckervätern suchen. Vielleicht können sie in eine Kategorie von Begleitpersonen aufgenommen werden, weil sie Aufmerksamkeit und Intimität für eine zusätzliche Zahlung oder Geschenke bieten. Aber ich denke, dass sogar Prostituierte besser sind als diese Art von Mädchen. Ich gehe besser zu peepshowwien  und habe eine tolle Zeit, als Zeit mit jemandem zu verbringen, der das Glück nachahmt.
 
Warpspeed
Guru

Joined: 09/08/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 3456
Posted: 08:49pm 25 Nov 2020
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Welcome to the Forum Orangish.

Could you please use only the English language here.  
99.9% of us here have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say.
Cheers,  Tony.
 
Davo99
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Joined: 03/06/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 610
Posted: 06:33am 26 Nov 2020
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It's spam Tony for some sort of weird porn site.
Just another desperate parasite trying to peddle his garbage anywhere he can.
Pathetic.
 
WindyOne
Newbie

Joined: 09/11/2012
Location: United States
Posts: 3
Posted: 04:32pm 02 Dec 2020
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  pollenface said  I ended up just buying a proper wind controller.

What model # was the proper wind controller?
 
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