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Forum Index : Windmills : Single Phase Fisher & Pykel

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Davo99
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Joined: 03/06/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 1352
Posted: 11:30am 05 Oct 2021
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  Godoh said  
The last time I helped someone with a hydro turbine and induction generator they had something like 350 metres of three phase flexible cord winding its way through the forest to his shed.
Hopefully no one finds it with a spade, that could be quite an interesting experience


I watched a Vid a Couple of months back about a MH System where they had a fair run back to the power shed. They used ordinary Fencing wire because it was cheap and strung it up telegraph pole style.

Where they had it there were a fair few trees and used them as supports along with a few trees they cut and put up as poles. System was running High voltages to get the current down and they had some sort of Cutout on the generator that would cut power if a fault was detected.

Said they had been running the system 3 years and the only problems were tree branches falling across the wires but had not taken them down at any time.

Seemed reasonable and they certainly saved a lot on cable. Burying that would not have been an option with the rocks and terrain which was why they went over head.
 
Rastus

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Joined: 29/10/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 301
Posted: 02:27pm 05 Oct 2021
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Thanks to all for the comments. My shed/workshop, (larger than 5 bay shed) has 4 -10amp power points and 5 double fluro lights. All installed before I moved in. When I am welding and also use the bench grinder or leave an appliance running while using another it is like "green acres"(although that scenario was humorous) frustrating. I can't use the plasma cutter at all. There are an ample number of electricians in the area but try and get one to turn up. When one finally arrives they quote astronomical prices to put off the
customer. I paid through the nose for the last job that was done. The tradee took his time turning up and said he only came because it was nearly a new install. While he was present He gave another quote for additional work I need doing, he said he would return in 3 weeks. That was 3 years ago (I no Covid is the default reason but I've had a number of other trades working at my place with no problems) He did say there is enough new work around for electricians to never need to do other work.  In addition the transformers in the service line are ancient and listed for changing out. So the main power drops out regularly. I use a generator connected to the house for that however it is only small and only covers home use. Are your ears bleeding yet, sorry for the rant.

So I am contemplating a stand alone gen system of some kind (that won't break the bank)
for the workshop. Any suggestions will be gratefully received. Kind regards Ron
see Rastus graduate advise generously
 
Rastus

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Joined: 29/10/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 301
Posted: 02:30pm 05 Oct 2021
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I forgot to mention although I said !5 amps, the plasma cutter needs 30 amps but I thought that is to high to aim for. I also have a 3 phase 3 hp shaping machine along
with other goodies. Kind regards Rastus
see Rastus graduate advise generously
 
Davo99
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Joined: 03/06/2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 1352
Posted: 10:01pm 05 Oct 2021
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  Rastus said   When I am welding and also use the bench grinder or leave an appliance running while using another it is like "green acres"(although that scenario was humorous) frustrating. I can't use the plasma cutter at all.


Yep, been there, done that and more than once.

  Quote   There are an ample number of electricians in the area but try and get one to turn up.


Yeah, know that one as well.  Fortunately I can do a lot of electrical myself and what I can't do I have a couple of sparky mates that I can get reliable service from long as I bribe them with Coffee or a BBQ. Where my father is in the country, Yeah, good luck getting any tradie at all. You'd think there was only one Plumber, carpenter or sparky for 100Km. Dad had trouble with his Fridge few weeks ago. Some Kid turned up after 4 days to look at it and then they told him it would be 2 weeks just to get him a quote and could be another 2 weeks to get parts to come out and fix it.  And this is from a company constantly advertising on the local Radio.
They are a joke.


  Quote   He did say there is enough new work around for electricians to never need to do other work.


Big part of the problem. They can pick and choose what they want and if your Job does not sound profitable enough for them, Bad luck. I always said to my son that Tradies were going to be the Future elite of professions because even the lawyers and Bankers depended on and could not do without them and there would always be a job for them no matter where they wanted to go. Time has only proven that prediction to be more valid.


  Quote   In addition the transformers in the service line are ancient and listed for changing out.


Transformers all across the network are ancient and should be changed out yet they are used as excuses as to why solar  can't be installed and other BS to protect the $3+ BILLION a year PROFIT  of the power companies here in oz.


  Quote  So the main power drops out regularly. I use a generator connected to the house for that however it is only small and only covers home use. Are your ears bleeding yet, sorry for the rant.


No, not a rant nor ears bleeding, its an all too familiar and current story.  These power companies are nothing but extortionists. They whine they can't afford to do required upgrades or put money into the system because it will force prices up while they make over $3bn a year profit.  The BS and lies for what is an essential service are Disgusting. All all corrupt big biz that manipulate grubbermints  and get away with murder.

  Quote  So I am contemplating a stand alone gen system of some kind (that won't break the bank)for the workshop. Any suggestions will be gratefully received. Kind regards Ron


Suggestions:

1, standalone Diesel Generator.
2,  Solar system connected to the shed circuit to give extra power and supplement mains.
3, Bttery pack

Solar would most likely be cheapest and might be able to be done DIY if you are at all handy with electrical. It is Grid dependent not standalone so will only work if the grid is there.  Also won't work at Night or in bad weather.
Your shed will also need clear sky around it so if it's heavily shaded by trees, don't bother.

All you would do is put up an amount of panels, Tie them to a regular inverter to the circuit(s) you are using in the shed and  that is it.

4KW inverter will do 20 A. I'd put 5 Kw of panels on it min, 6 would be far better to allow for winter.  20 panels x 3 phases is 60 Panels plus 3x4 KW inverters.
I wheel and deal in this stuff and I would charge $40 per panel and 300 ea for new 4 KW inverters. Add in cable, connectors, switches etc, call it $3500.

Bonus being if you have the old spinny meters you'll probably only have token pacification  power bills from there on in.  When the system wasn't powering your shed it would be offsetting your domestic power use and you can also " Bank "  the credits for when you are in the shed.

Other option is a Diesel Generator.
Ironically, the bigger they are the cheaper per KW output they become. Nothing to pay 3 grand for a little 5KW machine but I see 20, 30  and 50 Kw machines for $5-8000 all the time.  They are heavy, 1-2+ ton, Noisy, have to be running even when you are only using minimal power  in between jobs and you'd need suitable access for a truck and space to put one. Ideally would want  a decent  carport type covering over the thing as well if not it's own shed.

Running costs can be greatly offset using Waste veg oil you can get from Restaurants and fish and chip shops which you can easily clean and Dry and fuel the engine with that.

Big benefit with the gen option is you will always have power when you get blackouts which I fully believe are going to get much worse in the next 5 years everywhere.
All this green Unreliable energy clap trap is good to appease the ignorant  idealists on antisocial Media  but reality is going to be a very different thing. One only has to look at the countries that have gone down the road of unreliables and they are running away from them at 100MPH no matter what the do gooders say. Look up Germany and the failures in the US. We somehow think we can overcome the same problems here for sun reason.  We may have lots of sunshine but like everywhere else, only in the day time.
I think having power independence is going to be very worth while before long.

The only other option I can think of is a battery pack and inverters.
Battery pack will be around $4K, Inverters, off the top of my head about 800 ea,
You could charge from solar, grid or generator.  Obviously solar would be the way to go if your shed roof is relatively clear of shading. If solar you could probably drop to  4 Kw per phase so 48 panels which you might get for around 2K depending on where you are.

You could run your home as well as the shed from this and if you did your work in the shed on sunny days you might just be running off the soar Generation rather than tapping into the battery reserve.

Fair bit of setup in this so you are either going to have to DIY it or rely on those sparkys whom probably wont be interested because they will actually have to use their brains to figure it out.


 Others may have better suggestions for your problem but this is about all I can think of.
 
Godoh
Regular Member

Joined: 26/09/2020
Location: Australia
Posts: 59
Posted: 11:16pm 05 Oct 2021
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Ron it is pretty obvious that the Sub Mains from the house to the shed are too small.
How far is the shed from the house?
I would suggest that you run a new submain from the switchboard on the house to the shed.
If you have trouble with getting a sparky to do it then, dig a trench that is at least 600mm deep, from the house board to the shed.
Tell the sparky that you have a trench dug and that you want a new underground sub main to the shed put in.
That way the job is not so hard on them and all the dirty work is done.
Pete
 
Rastus

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Joined: 29/10/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 301
Posted: 01:04pm 06 Oct 2021
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Thanks Davo99 and Godoh for the advise, I can do electricals but am really reluctant to
do anything to an existing service. I will put in a stand alone system and install a complimentary/secondary system in the shed. I think that is the best option in this case.
Kind regards Rastus
see Rastus graduate advise generously
 
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