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Forum Index : Windmills : I finally got an F&P where to now?
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KarlJ Guru  Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
OK. so I've gotwhat looks like an 80 and have rewired it for the basic delta config per the website advice. Next step I was considering a pre made bearing assembly from Randy's workshop as the exchange rate is currently awesome http://www.watchtv.net/~rburmeister/Smart%20Drive/NewComplet ePivotAssy.JPG Next I was considering the three blade PVC idea for the prop, and going for 3x 1m blades. This is a hobby project So...... next, how big a battery do I need and what are peoples advice for a basic, easy to build tower? I dont want this to turn into more money than the china variety but it will need to stay in one piece! Anything i've missed? Luck favours the well prepared |
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fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
Karl , I doubt very much whether you will manage to keep it under the cost of a cheap china mill , but if you build it with all that has been trialed and learnt here then will have a mill that makes good power in all wind and works , you might be interested in some of these parts clik here PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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Gizmo Admin Group  Joined: 05/06/2004 Location: AustraliaPosts: 5123 |
Hi Karl Phill's right, unless you have a junk yard and well equipped workshop, you wont be able to build a mill cheaper than the cheap Chinese 200 watt mills. But if you do build your own, you'll end up with a windmill that is more reliable, and when it does break you'll know how to fix it. Plus the satisfaction of knowing you built it. Glenn The best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, the second best time is right now. JAQ |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Oops impatience got the better of me. I bought the mill head from Randys workshop last night. cost was $140AUD delivered to Australia, bargain. I think its a good start -would have been better if i'd got fillm's thing but there you go -next time! I'm in a pretty good wind area, and been logging data for over a year now, avg wind being 4.5m/s and peak I've ever seen was 50m/s -good stuff for blowing away sheds! SO, the load I wish to provide for is workshop lighting. I'll be using 12V HID 35W lights, which are about the same brightness as 150W lightbulb. Obviously they'll draw about 3amps each and I cant see them being on for more than a few hours each day. thus I think I'll be needing something in the order of 100AH. am I in the ballpark? Luck favours the well prepared |
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| daveames Newbie  Joined: 19/09/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 30 |
hi karl, a few thoughts on a choice of a battery bank size. if all goes according to plans what power output might we expect for that mill of yours? we see common outputs in the 400-600 watt range reported. generally batteries are rated at a c/20 discharge rate this rate can/should be carried over to the charge rate sometimes noted as 0.2c when charging. some of us have found it to be fine to go up to about a c/10 with the charge rate without any trouble. if our turbine is cranking out say 500 watts we might want a battery bank in the neighborhood of 500/12=41amps. 41amps X c/10 rate = a bank of about 400ah's or better. also, we will be needing a dump controller on the bank to keep our charging under control. something like the ghurd controller or the xantrex c-60 should do the trick. i bet that mill of yours might even be able to support a bank of 1000ah's...oh the possibilities. have fun, dave edit: fixed some weird spelling. |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Need more advice options please where can I get good batteries for a reasonable price? alternative -would need 48V so I can connect (indirectly or dierectly ) to the grid with the PVE1200. What kind of stator re-wire would I need for that (48V)? good god what have I gotten myself into! Luck favours the well prepared |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
BTW 40AMPS!!! going to need massive cable to carry it..... where do I get that for less than a million bucks! going to need about 50M.... Luck favours the well prepared |
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| daveames Newbie Joined: 19/09/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 30 |
hey karl, a few more thoughts, as if i have not confused things enough already. you can certainly run that mill/battery of yours at less than it's full storage potential and plan on dumping anything extra with your battery controller. i re-read your post."This is a hobby project " and "the load I wish to provide for is workshop lighting" i think you can run on a smaller scale even with your original 100ah battery example. we will sure be able to loose some potential with that 50m wire run you have. and i agree. "Need more advice" & "options please" i never want to scare someone away from a project. i may have jumped in with advice to get a full system potential not sticking to what you had in mind? keeping things smallish may work out for a start. with room to expand later. regards, dave |
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| fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
Karl , If you go with 48v there are two options to a rewire , none ( unmodified stator ) or 2p7s , also wiring sizes are smaller because the current is less , max 10 - 11 amps from a dual . With 48v a plasmatronics PL20 can easily handle the switching the dumpload and regulating the batts if you are not able to build your own controller . The problem is with 48v is there is not a lot of dc stuff you can run of it unless you series connect lights etc , although you can get 48v inverters and use the power that way . I went with 48v because I can connect to the grid with the PVE 1200 , you still need a small batt bank and still need a dump controll, if the wind is blowing and the grid is down there no where for the power to go , it has to be dumped . Also connecting to the grid has to be done by a licenced electrician , you just cant buy a PVE1200 and plug it in ... PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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Poss Newbie Joined: 27/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 30 |
Karl, I just got one of Randy's Mill heads and I would suggest you change the bearings as they are of a poor quality, was happy with the rest of it though.When I nipped the grub screws up and then tried to loosen them the disintergrated in the bearing. I replaced it with a NSK AL205 with a locking collar. You will find one of the yaw bearings here http://www.atrc.com.au/. Hope this helps...Jason. A brave man may not live for long, but a careful man does not live at all. |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Great news..... went up to the farm yesterday and scored a windmill tower, will make about 9m and apparently there was a farmer type who has modified these so they fold over simply and safely on new inventors will sus that out now. Best yet tower (with windmill) was FREE!! Luck favours the well prepared |
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| Smart Drives Senior Member  Joined: 06/07/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 115 |
I would suggest doing a 24v system as you can pick up a 24v to 12v converter quite easily. Also at 50 metres you will only experience about 7% loss in power with 10mm2 wire at 25amps. 100m of 10mm2 wire will cost around $200 though. But i can almost guarantee you will want a bigger system later better to pay once now. If you choose this option go for a Xantrex C40 because it will do 12v , 24v or 48v, Which again gives you more options later. Cam. All smart drive parts sold Custom built turbine parts on Multicam flatbed CNC Router |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Fillm I think the go is your option to rewire at 7s2p and go with 48V and the step up caps you describe. that way I'm not trying to deal with big amps and I have the later option to grid connect. anything wrong with that idea? certainly alot of beer being consumed reading these posts, staggered windings, caps, wire sizes, stop switches battery sizes, cable sizes. Getting f'n complicated! Like everyone here (of course) I'd like a turbine and setup that does everything for nothing! I just dont want to build a lemon after all this reading! would it be too difficult for someone to volunteer a couple of hours of their time for me to see their setup? I'm willing to travel as far as Brisbane or a radius in between to see a decent setup either charging batteries or pref connected to the grid, would bring my 4year old for the trip set off friday morning and come back for school tuesday. I appreciate the generosity of peoples time readin all of this, certainly makes good reading (albeit at a cost of a beer or two per hour!) Karl Luck favours the well prepared |
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| fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
Hi Karl , I am away at work for the next 2 weeks , you can contact me on phillm6@gmail.com . I would be more than happy to show you or any body my set up PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Phill, you are a legend. My Randys workshop mill arrived from the USA. It's OK but certainly no Phillm machine! Looks like will end up with 2 mills, this one and with some luck sooner rather than later one of yours too. Built the tail today out of some scrap aluminium today and desperately trying to find the 680uF 450V caps for less than a fortune. need at least 24 for the dual stator mill. Jason/Poss some notes I made of randys "weldment", it has no tail stops so you will need to fashon some up, i have used threaded rod through the tail pivot mount, bent to ballpark angles for rear and fwd stops (which are nyloc nuts), note the FWD stop needs to be further aft than first thought as the axis of the mill has at least 10deg tilt. Karl Luck favours the well prepared |
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| fillm Guru Joined: 10/02/2007 Location: AustraliaPosts: 730 |
Karl, I think " Legend " maybe a bit of an over statement , I started out like every one else thats new to all this 2 years ago . I treat my windmills as a hobby, and like any hobby such as golf, fishing , sailing etc etc it costs if the person wants to do that , how many $10,000+ boats sit in the backyards 99% of the year, but when the owner takes it out they enjoy what they are doing and what they have spent there hard earned money on . I feel its no different with my hobby , designing, building, watching and improving my wind generators is what I enjoy . I would even go so far to say I enjoy the failures as well ,as it gives benchmarks for better designs . I am probaby no different than the boat owner , where as I have bought tooling to enable me to put my thoughts and skills to make an end product , but the tooling sits there doing nothing 99% of the time , but when the end product is up in the air and the Amp meter is high it gives me enjoyment and a sence of achievement . PhillM ...Oz Wind Engineering..Wind Turbine Kits 500W - 5000W ~ F&P Dual Kits ~ GOE222Blades- Voltage Control Parts ------- Tower kits |
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| Poss Newbie Joined: 27/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 30 |
Karl any chance you can post some pics of the work you have done to the weldment...Poss A brave man may not live for long, but a careful man does not live at all. |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Will post the pics tomorrow, had a few cracks at it now, threaded rod was a looser, bloody tough to bend and when I got the right angles and applied some load, just turned it in the hole that goes through the tail pivot. Welding some lumps on now to stop the tail moving in the wrong places. Interesting I was just readin about a yank that has his wind genny nestled in the trees, great website but his first one using randys weldment was destroyed due to the tail hitting the blades..... Ultimate goal of this forum..... learn by others mistakes, be inspired by their creations and stop counting how much it costs because its likely that it will never pay for itself in anything other than personal satisfaction. Picked up my blades today, didn't meet Anthony (Jarbar) but checked out his little 5 bladed mill, looks like an AxFx with a couple of frypans to keep the water out and hold the magnets, looks great. Hope to read more as he gets further up the road with it. Dont like my chances of twisting the blades as suggested possible, they are really strong, going to be tough enough to get the angles right straight let alone with twists. Karl Luck favours the well prepared |
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| KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
Mods to the "weldment" for tail stops. Cut off some chair legs of an old chair and although I got my mate to plug weld the tube for the blades he insisted I learn to weld on this bit hence a bit rough but probably not going anywhere. Dad is enthusiastic and theory now is to use the PVE 1200 with the 1KW of solar and add the turbine via the battery bank, that way not out another $2K+ for another inverter and the power going to good use. Hopefully the sun is not shining too much Karl Luck favours the well prepared |
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| Poss Newbie Joined: 27/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 30 |
Karl it is a good thing that you are learning how to weld as it is a very handy skill, but I think you have gone overboard with those tail stops by looking at the pics.I'm no expert on mills but I don't think that your mill will be able to furl. I think you have got the shaft in back to front through the weldment too. I have mine set up with the stator on and the tail clears fine with no mods... By the way did you get that thrust bearing from that company I told you about...Poss A brave man may not live for long, but a careful man does not live at all. |
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