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Sonny
Regular Member
Joined: 17/01/2010
Location: United StatesPosts: 66 |
| Posted: 12:06am 17 Jan 2010 |
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I have spent the last two days going through it and I am really learning how this all works. I am a complete novic to wind power and have been reading up for about the last two weeks trying to learn how to build my own wind turbine. Right now I have a DC motor I am playing with and right now my biggest problem is trying to figure out what size blades I need to turn it. It is a 3/4 horse 90 volt, 7 amp motor. I would love to have some pointers on what I need to do. I have gotten Hugh Piggott's book and am reading it now.
Again great forum here. 
a complete novice |
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KarlJ
Guru
Joined: 19/05/2008
Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
| Posted: 02:21am 17 Jan 2010 |
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how many rpm?
I've seen model aircraft motors that put out over 2KW that are significantly smaller than the size of a coffee cup, drawback is they eat batteries and dont work too well as generators...
How many rpm, can you spin it up with your cordless drill and get better than 12V? if so might be on a winner.
3/4Hp is only ~500W so I wouldnt expect to see anything like that.
90V means that the windings are going to be pretty light and thus will be suited to a high voltage system or severely limited at low voltages as the wires just cant carry much more than the 7A she's rated for. think 7Ax12V= 80W
Have a look at Camerons post on converting chinese mill to smartdrive, that is a 500W mill and as you'll note the windings are pretty decent, if you find your motor is 1/4 the size, think 1/4 the power and you wont be dissappointed.
I'd be going for a real small cheap prop, like the PVC pipe idea and going for 1m diameter, search youtube and you'll see a few crazys with small motors holding them (by hand) into the wind, they get a few watts here and there.
IF you check out randys workshop he talks of the F&P as "serious power" where for us its the starting point of bigger and better things.
the hugh piggot book is the go, dont muck around, get to it. If I were you I'd cheat a little and use Gordon/Phills AXFX coils as a better way of doing it.
but most importantly if you go down that path, as Gordon has said many times, the quality of construction DOES make a big difference, make those coils as tight and neat as you can and cram that stator (with the appropriate size wire for your application)
Plenty of posts on otherpower / fieldlines on this but as you say, their discussion board is rubbish compared to this.
Luck favours the well prepared |
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smithbr67
Newbie
Joined: 16/01/2010
Location: United StatesPosts: 5 |
| Posted: 02:38am 17 Jan 2010 |
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As another newbe to the forum, I have been tinkering with electricity generation for awhile using the Hugh Piggott's information. You can't beat the ease of use and precise power of a dc generator or motor used in wind turbines; but there is also nothing like the feeling of making power from magnets, wire, steel and wood (for blades). I've made a couple of small project mills but the major one I finished a few months ago was a variation to the Volvo brake disk generator you've probably all heard about. Terribly inefficient (that's my fault) but made true power. My next project will be one very similar to a 1KW genny found on the site www.instructibles.com search diy windmill 1000w. Two steel disks, 24 neo magnets and 9 coils of 14guage wire.
My big problem is where to find a tower that gets these things 40 feet in the air. Anyone have ideas?
B. Smith
Iowa, USA |
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Sonny
Regular Member
Joined: 17/01/2010
Location: United StatesPosts: 66 |
| Posted: 03:14am 17 Jan 2010 |
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Thanks much guys, I can use all the help I can get.
Karl, I am using the DC motor just to get me started. I have a friend who works for a trucking company as a mechanic and I am going to see if he can get me a couple of the big 12 volt truck batteries. I am going to hook the DC motor up to those just to play with until I can get a proper alternator made.
I was in my shop today and I happen to notice that I have an old 6 bladed car fan that I used when I was into streetrods. I got it down and looked it over and found that the blade arms are set at an angle to the face. I think I can carve up some 1X4 blades and use this hub to mount them on for a try.
I am a retired machinest and have a lathe and mill so I can make pretty much anything I need. Except for the magnets and wire. I have worked with rare earth magnets for some years now, just much smaller ones. As a hobby I made magic tricks for a magician and I used lots of magnet in those to make them work. I just have never wound any coils before.
Again thanks much for the help.
a complete novice |
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KarlJ
Guru
Joined: 19/05/2008
Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
| Posted: 03:29am 17 Jan 2010 |
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Sonny if you have the expertise which looks like you do then DIY generator should be a piece of cake.
Old car fan will make good garden ornament type mill but I cant see any real power there!
I couldnt find the 1KW turbine post a link to the specific page using the world with chain button in the box above
Luck favours the well prepared |
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smithbr67
Newbie
Joined: 16/01/2010
Location: United StatesPosts: 5 |
| Posted: 04:20am 17 Jan 2010 |
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Agreed. If you are a machinist, have a lathe and mill, that is light years more than many of us have. That's why I used the car parts for my first genny (brake disk, wheel bearings and spindle). Karl, I can't find the world with chain button, but if you google the words "diy 1000 watt wind turbine" it is your second entry and takes you right to it. www.instructibles.com is the site.
Magnets and wire can be bought on Ebay or www.magnet4less.com
My first attempt using magnets and wire I made electricity. If I can do it anyone can. now I just want to make it more efficient.Edited by smithbr67 2010-01-18
B. Smith
Iowa, USA |
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KarlJ
Guru
Joined: 19/05/2008
Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
| Posted: 05:02am 17 Jan 2010 |
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OK seen it, a really rough version of Hugh Piggots design with a poor implementation of it at that.
No offset to the tower thus no furling, the first decent wind that thing sees will be its last!
1KW for 5mins then a burning pile of rubbish....
Harsh but fair
Karl
Luck favours the well prepared |
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smithbr67
Newbie
Joined: 16/01/2010
Location: United StatesPosts: 5 |
| Posted: 05:28am 17 Jan 2010 |
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Well, perhaps. IDK. I guess my point was that is the STYLE of alternator I will attempt to fabricate.
B. Smith
Iowa, USA |
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MacGyver
Guru
Joined: 12/05/2009
Location: United StatesPosts: 1329 |
| Posted: 05:40am 17 Jan 2010 |
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[Quote=smithbr67]Karl, I can't find the world with chain button . . .
I think KarlJ is talking about the 4th little box in the "Post Reply" box at the bottom of the page. It's the link you use to set a "hyperlink" into your post with.
. . . . Mac
Nothing difficult is ever easy!
Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman,
"Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!"
Copeville, Texas |
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GWatPE
Senior Member
Joined: 01/09/2006
Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
| Posted: 07:29am 17 Jan 2010 |
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This is what you are looking for.
Follow the instructions provided when making the hyperlink.
Gordon.
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isaiah
Guru
Joined: 25/12/2009
Location: United StatesPosts: 303 |
| Posted: 08:07am 17 Jan 2010 |
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Sony
One of the things you'll need to know is your average wind speed, and build from there.
Is your dc motor permanent magnet?
How much dose the motor weigh?this will be a issue in putting it up in the air
We use a formula of dividing the motor out put volts into the rpm of the motor and then multiply it by 15
As you need more than 12v to fully charge the battery's full up, 18 volts would be great.
My one motor is 1200 rpm 90 volts=13.33 x15=199.99rpm to deliver useful voltage.
You have to balance every thing to your area and average wind speed.
Up here that motor with 28'' pvc blades dose a good job we have 5.8 average wind speed. the hub is a 3/8 X 8''aluminum I turned out my self. Im also a old machinist but dont have a mill as yet.
what works good in one part of the country (world) dosen't necessarily work good in another.
go here http://www.windynation.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=262 ) the top two are mine blades are similar. the bottom is my brothers 10si with 28''hyper spin 5 blades.
hope this helps
we are in southern Michigan USAEdited by isaiah 2010-01-18
URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL> |
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KarlJ
Guru
Joined: 19/05/2008
Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
| Posted: 08:15am 17 Jan 2010 |
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OK I like the Volvo Brake disc idea.
Best yet is could potentially save lots of work with any of these type AXFX mills.
If it were me would expand on it making 2 sides....
Luck favours the well prepared |
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Sonny
Regular Member
Joined: 17/01/2010
Location: United StatesPosts: 66 |
| Posted: 04:03pm 17 Jan 2010 |
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I don't know a lot about the motor I have. It was given to me years ago by a member of the bike club I belonged to. We used it to turn a pig roaster we used for club get to gathers. It came with a control with one of the old rheostats to adjust the speed. It's pretty heavy so my guess is it's a pma. It's made by dodge and here is a little more info then I gave above. It has a DC field of 100 volts, DC armature of 90 volts, armature amps 7, base rpm of 1750, windings 12340. All this info is on the plate on the motor.
I have another question, from all I have read so far most are putting the rectifier near the genarator and running the dc from there. I guess my question is, back in my old Ham radio days( I know can't I ever pick something and stay with it  ) we learned that dc voltage was harder to push a long distance then AC voltage. So I am wondering why not put the rectifier near the batteries to cut down on the line loss.
Again thanks for all your help
a complete novice |
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JimBo911
Senior Member
Joined: 26/03/2009
Location: United StatesPosts: 262 |
| Posted: 05:04pm 17 Jan 2010 |
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I have all my recitfiers, caps, saftey switches etc in my house where I can change and play around with multiple arrangments. Seems staying with something for any lenght of time is difficult for me as well. Have to keep improving.
Jim |
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Bub73
Senior Member
Joined: 10/12/2009
Location: United StatesPosts: 116 |
| Posted: 06:59pm 17 Jan 2010 |
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Sony
Put the shaft of your motor in your lathe block up the motor and try different speeds to see what voltage you get if any also check for ac or dc
Ive done this a lot and usually you can just hold the motor while you take your readings while the lathe is running.start out at a low rpm 11
Isaiah off Bubs computer. |
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KarlJ
Guru
Joined: 19/05/2008
Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
| Posted: 07:08pm 17 Jan 2010 |
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AT those RPM's I'm thinking you'd be lucky to get anything useful out of it.
If it says on the plate field voltage, you'll need to convert it to permanent magnets. Pull it apart and post some pics.
Luck favours the well prepared |
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GWatPE
Senior Member
Joined: 01/09/2006
Location: AustraliaPosts: 2127 |
| Posted: 10:04pm 17 Jan 2010 |
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"It has a DC field of 100 volts, DC armature of 90 volts, armature amps 7, base rpm of 1750, windings 12340. All this info is on the plate on the motor."
Hi Sonny,
This says it all.
Sounds like a wound stator. No PM here. Universal motor of some sorts.
Could be used as a windmill generator, but probably has brushed commutator etc. will need some form of excitation field current.
Probably better to keep looking.
Gordon.
become more energy aware |
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Sonny
Regular Member
Joined: 17/01/2010
Location: United StatesPosts: 66 |
| Posted: 03:14pm 21 Jan 2010 |
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Well I finally pulled the motor apart, and there are NO magnets in it.  But the field has 5 large coils and as a guess using 16 gage wire. They seem to be wired in series. The armature has coils like any standard AC motor. What I am wondering is, if I remove the coils from the armature and machine slots in it to except magnets can it be made into a generator. I have a index fixture for my mill and I believe I can get 6 slots to take two of the 2x1x1/2 magnets end to end. I know this maybe a stupid question but I really am that much of a novice at this. I will try to get some pictures up, forgot to take my camera to the shop.
a complete novice |
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isaiah
Guru
Joined: 25/12/2009
Location: United StatesPosts: 303 |
| Posted: 03:31pm 21 Jan 2010 |
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With The cost of the magnets , and the work to install them and the uncertainty of the final out put. I would look to a different motor .
How much dose that dc motor weigh?
This is something to think about when you get it converted and go to put it up in the air.
I can understand The Challenge this is for you but the outcome for the efforts may not be so good.
URL=http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1973-11- 01/The-Plowboy-Interview.aspx>The Plowboy Interview[/URL> |
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KarlJ
Guru
Joined: 19/05/2008
Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178 |
| Posted: 11:36am 22 Jan 2010 |
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Cameron has done something similar with reasonable results but I'm inclined to agree with isaiah in that could be lots of effort with O reward and that would be enough to drive you away from this great hobby/passion/obsession we all have with watching things go round, maybe to the point of surpassing mans obsession with fire....
Speaking of which I need to go set something on fire.....perhaps a cigarette!
Luck favours the well prepared |
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