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where do I look to get a windmill kit for the house
MacGyver Guru Joined: 12/05/2009 Location: United StatesPosts: 1329
Posted: 11:33pm 25 Apr 2010
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That's a pretty open-ended question. You'll first have to decide how much electricity you need and go from there; the choices are endless. As far as a "kit" goes, that could be a bit problematic.
Start with your usage requirements and go from there. There are oodles of knowledgeable folk here on the 4m, but you'll need to provide much more information before anyone can set you on the correct path.
. . . . . MacNothing difficult is ever easy!
Perhaps better stated in the words of Morgan Freeman,
"Where there is no struggle, there is no progress!"
Copeville, Texas
Steve9R Regular Member Joined: 24/01/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 72
Posted: 11:50am 03 May 2010
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even jaycar are selling vertical axis turbines now i see in their latest catalogue..
KarlJ Guru Joined: 19/05/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 1178
Posted: 02:41am 06 May 2010
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ohhh ahhh 50W in 10m/s for $400.....
me thinks you could cut half an F&P away mount some large PVC to it in a similar configuration and get similar output.
KarlLuck favours the well prepared
rgormley Senior Member Joined: 22/02/2006 Location: AustraliaPosts: 245
Posted: 07:59pm 06 May 2010
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from the web site...
"no spinning blade" hhuuhh??? magic or revolutionary design or mistake?
is a complete portable wind generator solution for boating, 4WD, camping, fishing etc.
• Compact design with no spinning blades *****<<<------
• No mounting hardware required
• Not sensitive to wind direction
• Effective with wind speed of 8 - 10m/s
• Includes 2m cables with alligator clips
Specifications:
• Voltage output: 12 - 16VDC
• Current output: 4A max
• Weight: 4.5kg
• Dimensions: 455/655(H) x 280(W) x 150(D)mm
QTY
1+ $399.00
2+ $359.00
4+ $319.00
Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333
Posted: 02:03am 07 May 2010
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I dont know where the 4 amp comes from as they are listed as 200w x 12v, 300w x 12/24v, 500w x 24v
With the 500w listed as $1000.00 but interestingly the trade side of jaycar list the same item at $300.00 cheaper.
Still way too dear for a over rated Chinese mill i think.
I have seen a few around over the years in the Adelaide hills and every time i have driven past they have been parked, even on a reasonable wind day.
So i wonder just what it takes to get one to startup and pump out some useable power.
New member from Siberia.
I hope my questions are common here and probably there are already many good systems for home I'm going to build on base of my new Chinese windmill.
So, here is my plan.
As soon the recently purchased windmill needs only to be assembled correctly, the questions are only about practical usage of it.
1. Water heater system? I found someone recommending putting battery first, then heating element in cistern or tank, then fuse, then dump load regulator.
Did anyone use such system? Results?
In my opinion water is a good accumulator, and battery and others are weakening system, no?
Safety. I’m going to heat a big mass of water 1-5 m3, and using the water for heating house (floor heating not need so high temperature) and washing also; so safety question is very important. If energy is not enough or weather is too cold – there is a stove, and Chinese solar water heaters what I think will be also necessary. If there is a question abt how to make one system for summer: there are 2 pipe circles from the heating cistern, one is for heating what will be disabled on summer, one is for washing + solar water heaters.
2. Water pump system powered directly, possible? Which pump is better? Is pump’s efficiency growing after amps? Depth of well 7-10 m + 4 m of water system highest point (or top of cistern).
Most common electronics AC 220 V 50 Hz.
My questions may sound funny, but only thing I want is to save money and don’t want to mess with local electric companies.
Cheers
Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333
Posted: 04:36am 27 Jun 2010
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Hi dimasik,
Are you really in Siberia and if so what part? (nearest main town)
One of the reason why you would use a battery in a system mainly used for water heating is as a buffer.
Your heating element needs to be big enough to handle the full load of the mill under high wind conditions, as it is effectively the dump load that is used to control the mill and stop it from becoming a run away to self destruct point.
This caused a second problem with the high load of the heating element in low winds it will likely keep your mill stalled or spinning very slow making no power.
So the use of a battery to gather the power in all wind conditions and then dump the power to the heating element allows control that can be switched on and off without effecting the preformance of the mill to much.
A second dump load is just for backup, incase the element fails or it is summer time and the need for hot water in not required.
The way you would control this is the mill charging the battery, when the battery was charged, you would switch on the heating element, this would soak up the power from the mill as well as some from the battery, as the battery voltage fell you would switch off the heating element, and the battery would recharge again and the process would repeat.
Siberia is part of Russia, I live near Krasnoyarsk, only abt 450 km to south (where last summer gydro power station got broken)
The windmill I bought is DC48V 1000W if 10-12 m/s.
We have quite high winds in spring and autumns.
I have 3kw AC 220V water heater. Is it big enough? Water tank as mentioned at least 1 cubic meter or 120 L cistern -- the water heater taken from it.
In my opinion, hot water is never enough.
Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333
Posted: 05:09pm 27 Jun 2010
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dimasik,
I worked in Russia/Siberia for near 2 years, and know roughly where you are located.
For some of that time i was based at a little place called Tarasov which is up the top near Yamalia,(where all the nukes are bunked) we use to fly into Novosibirsk (600 km west of you) and chopper it up to Tarasov.
Also worked out of Evenkiyskiy for a while too, as well as several other places like Ashgabat down in Turkmenistan on the Iran and Afghanistan boarder.
Funny enough i dont remember getting to Krasnoyarsk
My Russian i learnt when i was there is very rusty now and Da, and Net, is about the limit so best we stick to English.
I understand why you want hot water, with 40 below zero for half the year hot water is very handy.
Most on the forum here could not imagin the enviroment you live within and the lack of services you are faced with, we complain if the power is off for an hour and you guys get a breakdown that lasts several months, with no explanation of if or when the service will be returned.
We grizzle at the cost of power and you are lucky to have power at all.
Its a hard life you guys live over there.
I use to fly back and forth between Austraila and Siberia, I would leave there in 40C below and arrive back home here in 40C above, it took some getting use to the change and more so when returning back to 40C below.
Back to hot water.
You might need need to change your heating element in the water heater to suit 48 volt as the 3kw element you have at present will only be 650 watt at 48 volt supply.
Do you have any more information on the windmill you have like blade dia. if it has a built in controller, is there a brand name to it (well a English one)
It seems you are in oil industry.
Krasnoyarsk is only abt 800 km to east from Novosiba.
From us over 1200 km. Only a night driving (not polar:)).
Our life in struggle with surrounding is not so peaceful and easy but this I believe is making it more colorful. We can discuss a lot abt weather conditions and surviving. It's very helpful and interesting. I believe this forum is a little special so I came here to people who know how to make energy (money) from wind (air).
I doubt no one hasn't thought same way like me. The system I mentioned is not so complicated and will be built by me. The question is how to make it more effective and avoid possible mistakes while assembling.
I'm waiting for windmill arriving, probably on next week.
http://sunningpower.en.ec21.com/1000W_Wind_Turbien_Generator _5--3759738_3759955.html
Star-up speed 2(m/s)
Rated speed(m/s) 12 (m/s)
Cut-in speed 2.5 (m/s)
Rated voltage 48V(DCV)
Rated output 1000 (w)
Peak power 1200 (w)
Rotor diameter 1.8 (m)
Blades 5 (pcs)
Survival wind speed 60 (m/s)
Weight 25 (kg)
Heavy wind protection Dump load and with electromagnetic breaking
Max motor exothermic Rated load 85C
work temperature -20C to 40C
Certification CE, ISO9001
Since it's underwater and liquid is circulating (I plan to put heater to lower point to exclude circulating pumt in tubes) the heater can stand greater power cooling by water, no?
Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333
Posted: 07:03am 28 Jun 2010
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dimasik
Ok my Russian is not as rusty as i thought as, Spasibo means thankyou if i remember correctly.
Your heater is a resistor and you are restricted by ohms law at how it works.
3000w / 220v = 13.6 amp
13.6 amp X 48 volt = 655 watt
So you see the best you will get at 48 volt is 655 watt in your heating unless you change the element to one suited for 48 volt and a higher watt rating.
If it was me and was able to fit it in i would add a second element same as you have, half way up the cylinder and in light winds run the upper element only and in high winds run both elements in parallel.
As 2 x 655 watt is greater than the mills rated output anyway, so this should cover all needs.
Also keeping the mains rated elements allows you to switch back to mains power in no wind situations of when your mill is frozen or packed in a foot of ice/snow.
You do realize you are not going to set the world on fire with this mill but will generate a contribution to your power needs.
I have not looked at the link for the mill you purchased to know how good it is but on general they rate the capabilities of their mill around 40% above what you will realistically get out of them.
So beware of this before you go designing for maximum power output.
Dusvadonya, Pete.
Sometimes it just works
VK4AYQ Guru Joined: 02/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2539
Posted: 07:22am 28 Jun 2010
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Hi Dimasik
Are you in a permafrost location?
If not, can you drill a hole in the soil and measure temperature 2 meters down?
There are 24 volt heating elements available to avoid losses of conversion to 220 volts. they are 600 watts 24 v so 2 in series with another two in parallel as a dump load first two 1200 watts second two 1200 watts for high winds, I think you are in a 15 + ms area unless there is obstruction to the wind nearby to reduce wind speed.
Is your existing heater electric the 3 kw you mention or connected to a fuel stove / heater or both. If electric do you know how many watts it takes on 1 day to keep the floor warm?
Will the turbine be your primary heat or will it be a booster?
Batteries would be necessary to provide constant load to the wind turbine.
To all, I'm not in perma-frost region. Siberia is not always pieces of ice on frost. Regions where Pete used to be are thousands km to North. Our place is Southeast of Siberia where climate is much closer to Mongolia but not that windy or Northern China and Nothwestern Turkey, I could compare with Northern States of USA, but I haven’t been there. However in July-August the soil is still frozen – we just dug a hole under new septic and found below is still frozen so excavator was not able to continue. To exclude such issues, I could add that lowest t -40’C only few days a year and only few hours just before sunrise.
Current house we live hadn’t been well designed and built so needs a lot of energy to keep it warm. When below -10’C everyday abt 10-20 kilos of wood needed to be burn and abt 1500-2000 kwt a month to cover all needs (of course electric water heater 3x3 kw, extra water heater to bathroom 3kw, big LCD TV, rangette, 2 computers and 1 laptop, 100 w lightboolbs common used etc.).
The idea is to build a new warm house on the farm beautiful field, but in the distance of power lines. Here is big corruption, may be you know Pete, but neighborhood is worse. So if I need to pull a new power line (just imagine I’m that reach after paying all the bribes to electric company) than I’ll need to talk well to neighbors and worry each night that they will steal the wires and cut the poles. The new house needs only light, microwave and laptop, what I think is enough to be covered by windmill and batteries.
The wood stove is main heat, and in night when light mostly not used I want windmill to heat the water and house.
Downwind Guru Joined: 09/09/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 2333
Posted: 04:33pm 28 Jun 2010
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dimasik
Have you considered a wood stove with a water heater exchanger built into it.
Since you run the fire for long periods it would workout ecconomical to heat your bathroom water this way.
I have a friend that lives without grid power and has one of these waterheater/stove and it works very well.
The hot water is stored in a tank in the roof, which can also have a heating element in it for times when fire is not on.
He has solar water heater as well for summer months when the fire is not used
The stove has a copper coil fitted to the back of it and is plumbed through to the roof space to the tank which also has a copper coil in it.
The copper cois/plumbing is filled with antifreeze and is a sealed system with only the outside of the coil in the tank in contact with the water.
I very much doubt one windmill will give you enough power to live off grid, without shedding much power to heat water too.
We are unable to do that in a warmer climate here so very doubtfull a chinese mill will let you do that there.
Yes i would agree Russia is very corrupt and is the worst corrupt place i have been, but no what i would call dangerously corrupt as i have been to more dangerous places.
Its the only place i have been where you could get stopped by the police driving home from a party blind drunk (Russian vodka will do that) then be escorted back to camp, and give the police a meal and drink more vodka or German beer with them, while they consume large amounts of soft serve icecream, and when they are blind drunk too all is ok and minor infringment is forgotten.
We use to say if it was not bolted down it would be stolen, but found even when it was bolted down it was unbolted and stolen anyway.
I had a 200Ltr drum of diesel fuel in the back of the truck when i returned late one night from a job and by morning the ground was soaked around the truck with diesel where they had tipped the fuel out and stole the drum.
When i asked why the drum? I was told well they can buy or get fuel, but cant buy a drum.
I do understand why you dont want to run cables, it would be a bit like as you connected the cable one end the neighbour would be rolling it up from the other end.
And the first cold night your poles would become stumps when the rest was stolen for fire wood.
How long do you think your windmill will last before it gets stolen.
When we shipped camp up to Tarasov on the train all the toilet bowls and hand basins got removed and stolen from the bathrooms, It made me laugh with the toilets going missing.
Some lucky Russian now has several westen style toilets that im sure he is very proud of.
Da, Pete
Soft vanilla icecream with honey is best on frost. It's one of the best why I love winter.
I fully recognize that one 1000 w windmill will not provide enough energy, but if you need reasons,
- in forums I read empty windmill is easy burning, is in night time when difficult to control the rotating speed powering the heater the way to avoid?
- as I mentioned, saving money and time.
- when outside above or around zero C, house is dump and dank. And you may once kindle the stove, heat the water and let you windmill try to keep the water warm as far as possible.
By the way, house will be straw, also new technology, wind proofed by wood or panels. I heard this technology is very warm and eco. But main reason is price and time.
powerednut Senior Member Joined: 09/12/2009 Location: AustraliaPosts: 221
Posted: 07:24am 30 Jun 2010
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Hi Dimasik,
sounds like an interesting place to live - do you get down below -20C at all? I'm asking because I noticed in the specifications you have that the windmill's operating temp range goes down to -20.
Don B Senior Member Joined: 27/09/2008 Location: AustraliaPosts: 190
Posted: 08:52am 30 Jun 2010
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Hi Dimasik,
Setting aside windmills for the moment, what sort of insulation do you use to retain the heat that you get from whatever energy source (firewood, etc) that you use for heating? It is one thing to heat water, or your house, but one of the main things is then to keep that heat from leaking away as much as possible through poor insulation.
If you are thinking of a new house, then insulation should be your first consideration. Things to be insulated would include the floor (if concrete, then perhaps it needs polystyrene or similar underneath), walls (what is your usual wall construction?), windows (I would guess double glazing, at the least), and ceilings or roof (again, what is usual?).
It is really only once you can keep as much of the heat energy that you have obtained from the usual heat sources such as firewood, fuel, grid, etc that you can then get the maximum benefit from relatively minor energy sources such as the windmill that you are looking at.
Windmills can do a reasonable job for lighting and minor appliances, but, unless they are huge (and/or you live in a place with steady wind), quickly become inadequate when you try to provide significant heat or power for a house.
Thanks for interest.
most of the information you ask is above.
I had not much time to choose the windmill in China and it's first one, so I would call it experimental. As I said above, I fully recognize that 1000 w or even 3 kw is not enough to keep warm 80 s.m. house in our weather.
Besides, as told the load free windmill is easy to burn.
If I’l load the water heater overnight what suggestions I better to follow?
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