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Forum Index : Windmills : Grid Connect Inverters

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b351267

Newbie

Joined: 08/02/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 27
Posted: 07:53am 09 May 2010
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Has anybody tried out the Ginlong GCI-2K Grid Tied Inverter for Wind. I am thinking of buying one to use with my 48 Volt 1KW machine. They are a fair bit cheaper than the Windy Boy WB 1100LV and anyway I can't seem to find anybody who sells them in Australia. They now have Australian certification.
Don

There is always a 'Plan B'.
 
KarlJ

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Joined: 19/05/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1178
Posted: 08:29am 09 May 2010
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how much?
needs to be certified
check this out PVE1200

this is about $140 cheaper than "mates rates" that I paid through energy matters.

In my opinion for wind VERY tough to beat also can have their TC48 for about $550 which next to batteries and charge controller etc (which i did) it also a bargain.

All up fully legit grid tied bullet proof warrantied solution for under $2K.

turbine $1500, tower and concrete %1500 theoretically RECS rebate x 80+
could be all up at about $1800 bargain!!!!!

Karl




Luck favours the well prepared
 
b351267

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Joined: 08/02/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 27
Posted: 12:37pm 09 May 2010
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I agree the Latronics would be an excellent unit, however the problem I have with it is that you can't change it's configuration. It is essentially a solar unit that can be used with a wind turbine by disabling the MPPT. It won't start to work till the DC input voltage rises above 54 volts which makes it unsuitabe for my old Dunlite which typically fluctuates bettween approximatly <48v and it's regulated maximim of 55 volts when it is really blowing. I really need an inverter that can be programmed.
Don

There is always a 'Plan B'.
 
GWatPE

Senior Member

Joined: 01/09/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 2127
Posted: 02:10pm 10 May 2010
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I would modify the dunlite to give the extra volts and use the Latronics.

The WindyBoy LV version will be damaged if the voltage rises above 60VDC. You will be on your own to get the overvotage protection right.

Gordon.


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b351267

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Joined: 08/02/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 27
Posted: 08:48am 11 May 2010
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Thanks for the advice but not very practical, it probably would involve rewinding the armature and feild coils, more turns of finer wire. It's all about Ampere turns, flux densities and all that sort of thing.
Don

There is always a 'Plan B'.
 
GWatPE

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Joined: 01/09/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 2127
Posted: 10:46am 11 May 2010
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  b351267 said   I am thinking of buying one to use with my 48 Volt 1KW machine.


I had believed this was the question. The PVE1200 is designed for a 48V windmill.

I would think that there would be some adjustment in the regulator without resorting to a rewinding exercise.

Gordon.


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oztules

Guru

Joined: 26/07/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1686
Posted: 11:58am 11 May 2010
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Ginlong:
Model
GCI-2k

Energy Source
Wind & PV
AC Nominal Power 2 (kW)
DC Input Voltage Range (VDC)
30 - 750V
Operating Range Utility Voltage (VAC)
190 - 260 (adjustable)

Operating Range Utility Frequency (Hz)
47 - 52 or 57 - 62 (ajustable)
Total Harmonic Distortion (THD)
THDAC< 4 %
Power Factor >0.99
Efficiency >94%

Utility Monitoring
Islanding protection VAC, FAC in accordance with UL 1741, IEEE929, G83/1, G59, AS4777
Communication Interfaces
RS485
Operation Surroundings Temperature
-25℃ ~ +60℃
Operation Surroundings Humidity
0 ~ 95%
Ingress Protection
IP65
EMC
EN50081,part1
EN50082,part1
Grid Interference
EN61000-3-2
Safety
Short circuit protection, islanding protection, over heat protection, over load protection


Well. Looks impressive, and they even make a 100kw version.... yikes
On those figures Don, I think the Ginlong is streets in front of the Latronics for wind useage. I don't know who sells them over here but they have AS4777... so someone must????

Email the company direct perhaps


.............oztules

EDIT: 27 November 2009 Ginlong Grid Tie Inverter passed UL1741 and AS 4777.Edited by oztules 2010-05-12
Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth
 
b351267

Newbie

Joined: 08/02/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 27
Posted: 12:51pm 11 May 2010
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Thanks John, I already have the specs, in fact you can download the installation and user manual as I did. My only concern is that you only seem to be able to program them in 10 volt steps. As I intend to use batteries as well, I will be asking it to work through a range of approximatly 48V - 55V so I will only be using two of it's voltage programing steps. From reading the manual this is the way I think I can get it to work although it will take a lot of trial and error experimenting with voltage curve settings.

I will try setting 40V and below to zero power out, 50V at 50 Watts, then 60 V and above at 2KW. As I have the generator O/P voltage regulated to a maximim of 55V to protect the batteries, the machine should then deliver 1KW to the grid at 55V which is the maximim power rating for a Model L Dunlite. I am sure I will use batteries as the generator's O/P voltage fluctuates so much.

This is my theory, I may be wrong, that is why I had hoped to hear from someone who had tried one out.

I have been in touch with the company and they will sell me one for US$1200.00 delivered to my door which is very tempting deal.
Don

There is always a 'Plan B'.
 
GWatPE

Senior Member

Joined: 01/09/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 2127
Posted: 01:53pm 11 May 2010
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I think you will find the most important spec, the max inverter input current is missing. I think it will be around 10ADC. The windmill at 1kW, will be able to supply at least 20A at 50V. The inverter will not load correctly, no matter what the curve you give it. These are designed for windmills working at 100-400VDC.

I may be wrong, but these with a boost front end seem to work this way.

Gordon.


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oztules

Guru

Joined: 26/07/2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1686
Posted: 11:21pm 11 May 2010
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Gordon, you have a good point there.

I still treat the latronics as a solar inverter. It has little room for voltage swing, and so is only any good tied to batteries.... even though the manufacturer has add ons for direct tie.... I would not trust it in a fit. To me it is a girly device for wind direct tie, but a steady performer for panel or batt tied.

The Ginlong is a better bet for direct tie, and making an AX for it would be a simple job, unfortunately Don does not have this flexibility.... so maybe a latronics.. The cheap $200 inverter I got for testing would be a good choice for batt connect. 2 units in parallel (mine is 20-55v 600W) would do fine... but no AS4777.... sigh

Now Ginlong is on the scene, I would use one of them, and make the mill to suit 30-750 is a serious range to play with!

Edit. Reread your post Don, what is the open circuit voltage spread?. Maybe you can run the mill direct and bypass the batteries with better results? If you can drive 1000w @ 55v, maybe your actual EMF is well over 100v. An iron core machine will have plenty of reactance losses, so if the voltage is allowed to rise, it may better suit the inverter direct.... maybe....and your output may be well over 1000w.

.............oztulesEdited by oztules 2010-05-13
Village idiot...or... just another hack out of his depth
 
KarlJ

Guru

Joined: 19/05/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1178
Posted: 02:24am 12 May 2010
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I agree with tules, but that said some strange things may happen to the furling point as Phill and I have found with different loadings it does change how the mill behaves.
I would think if its rated for 1KW that would be in the higher end of the voltage range, perhaps 200V plus as with most GTIs for Solar.

Gordon is right, there is no way it would be able to take the 20A at say 50V.
and could get messy with a transformer to step up to say 10x the 36V designed operating voltage. dont know what the losses would be but i'm thinking more than the mill will make in less than 4.5m/s wind....
making it all an expensive, not productive mill combo.

Alternative advice would be go for it, looks wonderful......

then when it doesnt work with the dunlite buy a Grid tie voltage rated 2KW chinese turbine running at 350V.

Then would be laughing.
Luck favours the well prepared
 
imsmooth

Senior Member

Joined: 07/02/2008
Location: United States
Posts: 214
Posted: 02:15am 15 May 2010
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Why doesn't anyone consider Power-One's Aurora? This is the one I use for grid-tie.
 
Andy R.

Newbie

Joined: 07/05/2010
Location: United States
Posts: 18
Posted: 03:48am 15 May 2010
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So what's a "Power-One Aurora".

Thanks.
 
b351267

Newbie

Joined: 08/02/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 27
Posted: 08:19am 15 May 2010
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I can only fine specs on the American models, I can't find any models specifically designed for wind available in Australia. I am not sure they would be suitable for my generator as thier wind version don't start to work till 50V and won't deliver full power till 200V.
Don

There is always a 'Plan B'.
 
imsmooth

Senior Member

Joined: 07/02/2008
Location: United States
Posts: 214
Posted: 09:29pm 15 May 2010
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Voltage range: 50-600v
16 programmable points for voltage and extracted wattage
Full computer monitoring via usb port

See http://www.mindchallenger.com/wind
 
GWatPE

Senior Member

Joined: 01/09/2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 2127
Posted: 12:41am 16 May 2010
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I have just looked at the link above. I am unable to scroll to see what is on the LHS links at the bottom of the list. Is there some problem with the design of this web page, or do I need a bigger computer screen.

I went to an internet cafe and have looked at the grid connection link. The loading graph just looks like the loading that is achieved with a cap doubler into batteries. I think the WindyBoy can be programmed in a similar way. The Aurora has a wider operating input voltage than the WindyBoy.

What happens when the wind energy is less than say 10W? Does the Aurora maintain the grid connection?

As far as I know, only Skystream and Latronics GTI maintain some connection when there is a wind lull. The Skystream maintains connection all the time, while the Latronics connects only when there is enough wind and stays connected for up to 15 mins.

Gordon.


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imsmooth

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Joined: 07/02/2008
Location: United States
Posts: 214
Posted: 04:25am 16 May 2010
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The inverter maintains a connection to the grid with 0w input for at least 10 minutes. I have not sat there to accurately time it, but I do know that it is maintained. I am very pleased with the unit.
 
b351267

Newbie

Joined: 08/02/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 27
Posted: 11:03am 16 May 2010
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Unfortunatly I can't find the wind version Aurora availabe in Australia. Really I am sure the only GC inverters that may be suitable for my generator are the Windy Boy 1100LV, (my first choice but expensive and also difficult to get in Australia), or perhaps the Ginlong GCI-2K which is far less expensive and easily obtainable. I was just hoping someone had tried the Ginlong with a generator in the 45-60V range.
Don

There is always a 'Plan B'.
 
KarlJ

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Joined: 19/05/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 1178
Posted: 02:16pm 16 May 2010
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Very expensive is the answer. to why not power one.
the PVI-2000 is at best $3300 making it double the price of the Latronics unit.

In all honesty the solution given the voltage constraints is not inexpensive enough to make Grid tie with the Dunlite viable without getting it to make 60V.

Alternative of course is to run it at 24V perhaps and use a 24 to 240V "normal" inverter through a couple of batteries and have it run the fridge....

All a bit of a moot point as a fridge using half what the current fridge (whatever it is) can be built -converted freezer... for less money.

same goes for lights unfortunately.....


Luck favours the well prepared
 
Percul8or

Newbie

Joined: 09/08/2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 13
Posted: 10:48pm 08 Aug 2010
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Hi Guys,

I have just joined the forum. I import the Ginlong unit and have installed them. With 40 programmable points on the curve this unit is the most advanced on the market bar none. I looked at the Latronics and it is pretty primitive compared to this unit. The brake unit from them is not that sofisticated. We have designed a brake unit that dumps load at both predetremined voltage AND current levels. The latter is important as the Ginlong is limited to 9 amps.

PM me if you want more details

Marc
 
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